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Author Topic: UK Dealers..  (Read 6511 times)
Morgan_Moore
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« on: October 20, 2008, 06:16:20 AM »
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Hi

Im thinking of buying a video cam (probably the SR12 as in MRs review)

Can anyone recommend a dealer in the UK who can talk cameras to the simpleton stills photographer

Saying sensible things like "this one is floored by the crappy jack input for sound"

I would be looking to kit out with a decent(ish)  mic and a wide apdapter most likely and buy all in one go

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
situgrrl
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 03:51:05 PM »
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Are you going to Creative Expo at Olympia at the weekend?  The Saturday is video day.... PM me your email if you need more but registration is free.  There will be stallholders there though whether they will have what you want is anyone's guess - however - there will be people who can answer your questions even if they can't sell you what you need.


Charly

PS - IMO - for what you seem to be after, mini jack is not the end of the world.  If you are set upon HD and XLR however, look at the Sony A1.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:52:39 PM by situgrrl » Logged

Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 01:05:06 AM »
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Quote from: situgrrl
Are you going to Creative Expo at Olympia at the weekend?  The Saturday is video day.... PM me your email if you need more but registration is free.  There will be stallholders there though whether they will have what you want is anyone's guess - however - there will be people who can answer your questions even if they can't sell you what you need.


Charly

PS - IMO - for what you seem to be after, mini jack is not the end of the world.  If you are set upon HD and XLR however, look at the Sony A1.

I couldnt imagine a more horrible experience than a trade show

do you mean..

This camera (probably different dealer)

Because that is what I am currently thinking

-Decent sound in

-not a ball breaking price

-strips down small for POV or waterhousing

-wide angle/fisheye

-another snapper mate uses the same camera after a lot of head scratching

Thanks SMM
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 01:05:59 AM by Morgan_Moore » Logged

Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
situgrrl
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 04:44:26 AM »
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That's the one.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 05:39:29 AM »
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Quote from: situgrrl
That's the one.


Im now being told that it has poor low light and colour (one chip) and lack of user controls ..

Can you comment on..

Lack of user controls

How wide it would be (in FF DSLR eqivilent ) with a wide angle 0.5 or fisheye adapter I spose im after about an 18mm

TIA

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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situgrrl
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 06:40:33 AM »
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I've never used one - I only suggested it from what you seem to be after/what you seem have to spend.  I saw this http://www.macvideo.tv/camera-technology/i...pagType=samecat yesterday and it proved to me once again, it's not the kit, it's the person using it.

Video seems to have largely moved from CCD to CMOS sensors and correspondingly, there are few companies making 3 chip gear.  I know panasonic do.  The bits and pieces I've read suggest that the reduction in individual chip size is more detrimental to low light usage than a single chip.

The Canon HG10 that I'm playing with at the moment has some real limitations.  Manual focus is by Kinder Surprise wheel and cannot be done using the VF for instance.  It has no histrogram, no zebra stripes, no audio control whatsoever.  I have figured work arounds for most of the problems, most of the time, in the month I've been using it.  It's menu based but much faster than my IXUS 850.  Learning to actually shoot good video, edit it and everything else is proving the much greater challenge!

From what I can see of the A1 - you have proper audio controls, a proper focus wheel on the lense and a half decent mic as well as XLR options and time code for off board audio.  I'm certain that a camera used in broadcast situations will have manual exposure modes, a histogram and zebras.  Whether a 0.5x convertor will get you to 18mm I don't know.  My HG10 has a 43-430 lens - really stupid!  However, with a 0.7x, it takes me to about 28 - which works for me.  A 0.5 would be 21.

As with all equipment purchases, it comes down to compromise.  I ummed and ahhed, set a budget and bought the best camera I could within it.  For me, by the sounds of things like you, that was the most control for the least money.  I couldn't stretch an SR11 and the lesser Sony models didn't give me what i needed.  If I have RED taped right - no matter what you buy now, you are going to want a Scarlet when it's released late next year.  At $3000 it would appear to be a direct competitor to the A1.  I would work on buying one of them ASAP and buying what you get now as a tool until your Scarlet arrives.
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JMCP
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 07:58:33 AM »
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Hi,

I have the Sony A1E and it is great little camera IF the light is decent, in low light, it is very poor. A lot of the controls are adjustable through the touch screen menu only which is not great for making quick changes. No idea about the wide angle as I have not used one on it. I also think that it is difficult to expose properly (I'm forever blowing out the highlights), also, it can be a challenge with the autofocus as it does seem to do a bit of hunting at times. Another downer for the camera is that it is electronic image stabilisation and not optical stabilisation.

All in all though, it is an excellent little camcorder and the mic inputs do give you the opportunity for recording good quality sound.

Cheers John


Quote from: Morgan_Moore
Im now being told that it has poor low light and colour (one chip) and lack of user controls ..

Can you comment on..

Lack of user controls

How wide it would be (in FF DSLR eqivilent ) with a wide angle 0.5 or fisheye adapter I spose im after about an 18mm

TIA

SMM
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 09:40:20 AM »
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Quote from: JMCP
Hi,

I have the Sony A1E and it is great little camera IF the light is decent, in low light, it is very poor. A lot of the controls are adjustable through the touch screen menu only which is not great for making quick changes. No idea about the wide angle as I have not used one on it. I also think that it is difficult to expose properly (I'm forever blowing out the highlights), also, it can be a challenge with the autofocus as it does seem to do a bit of hunting at times. Another downer for the camera is that it is electronic image stabilisation and not optical stabilisation.

All in all though, it is an excellent little camcorder and the mic inputs do give you the opportunity for recording good quality sound.

Cheers John

Low light - Havnt these film people heard of lights ??

Before the D3 I spent my life lighting everything  (for stills)- Im not after filming candles at kiddies parties

Difficult to expose properly - is that not a major flaw

Is there not a button for 'AE lock' - wave it around a bit  until you have the right exsposure - lock

Is there a focus lock button

Any more comment

Do you think you could make basic adequate video once the limitations are understood

To SKRGRRL

you are probably right - all these cams are a bit rubbish - kinder egg - roll on scarlet or the D3x or wahtever

WHy isnt there and FM2 of cameras - focus, aperture, shutter speed, FPS, ISO, that is all the variables no ?

Anyway lets concentrate if you are kind enough on what I can buy now

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
GregW
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 10:33:33 AM »
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Quote from: situgrrl
Video seems to have largely moved from CCD to CMOS sensors and correspondingly, there are few companies making 3 chip gear.  I know panasonic do.  The bits and pieces I've read suggest that the reduction in individual chip size is more detrimental to low light usage than a single chip.

This is a source of real irritation for me. My principal use of video is in race cars, which are subject to a lot of vibration. The CMOS sensors on consumer and semi-pro cameras aren't up to the job.
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JMCP
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 12:22:22 PM »
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Sam,

using a camcorder is very different from using a camera. You may want to do some panning and in doing this the scene can change quite a lot, hence locking the exposure may not be the answer. Focusing with HDV type camers is more difficult than SD type cameras or should I say more critical than using SD cameras and I have found that the A1 does struggle at times and neither the sidescreen or the viewfinder are adequate to show if you have manually focused correctly.

Your use of a camcorder may be completely different from mine, I use mines a lot when I am away hiking and no amount of lights is ever going to help you when the light levels drop. I have also used it alongside a larger 3 ccd Sony camcorder at a wedding and to be honest, all the indoor shots after the lights were dipped were a waste, even with a light attached as folks generally don't like having a camcorder with an attached light pointed at them.

One thing you should be aware of, the A1 is basically a consumer camera with prosumer audio added on, plus a few other tweaks like black stretch, t is more or less the Sony HC1 with the additions I mentioned which used to cost about half the price of the A1.

I think the Sony A1 uses a CCD chip and not a cmos chip.

In decent light you will be hard pressed to tell the difference between the A1 and a camcorder costing a few grand more, its just when the environment is a bit more challenging, then it struggles.
 

Cheers John


Quote from: Morgan_Moore
Low light - Havnt these film people heard of lights ??

Before the D3 I spent my life lighting everything  (for stills)- Im not after filming candles at kiddies parties

Difficult to expose properly - is that not a major flaw

Is there not a button for 'AE lock' - wave it around a bit  until you have the right exsposure - lock

Is there a focus lock button

Any more comment

Do you think you could make basic adequate video once the limitations are understood

To SKRGRRL

you are probably right - all these cams are a bit rubbish - kinder egg - roll on scarlet or the D3x or wahtever

WHy isnt there and FM2 of cameras - focus, aperture, shutter speed, FPS, ISO, that is all the variables no ?

Anyway lets concentrate if you are kind enough on what I can buy now

SMM
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2008, 05:49:08 AM »
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Quote from: JMCP
One thing you should be aware of, the A1 is basically a consumer camera with prosumer audio added on,

I am thinking now not to mees around and get an EX1 and a Letus35Extreme - its actually only the price of another D3 with a half decent lens

Seems like it will be and adequate tool for years to come - like my D3 - not really bothered about upgrades any more

I assume that footage will wipe the floor with D90 fotage which I have been finding very soft

Anyone think why the EX1 is a dumb way forward..

SMM
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
www.sammorganmoore.com -photography
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