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Author Topic: the one big thing about capture one 4.5  (Read 18169 times)
woof75
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« on: October 21, 2008, 09:21:13 AM »
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The big glaring issue with capture one 4.5 which makes it pretty much useless in a professional environment is that there isn't a small 100 percent view focus window. How it works on a shoot is that your tech person looks at the window which has a 100 percent view on the eyes (or wherever you need focus) to check focus and the client looks at the full size preview to see the shot. It's not hard, it's pretty basic, has phase one never asked how a professional shoot works?
It has lots of fancy new tricks in it but without this feature it is essentially useless to shoot to.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 09:25:54 AM »
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What is so hard about double clicking the preview or use a scroll wheel, or hit a icon. Even a keystroke. There are 4 or 5 ways to get 100 percent.

Shot tethered in almost all of this with version 4

Watch the video http://www.fielddominance.com/getdpi/
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 09:28:33 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

woof75
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 09:35:44 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
What is so hard about double clicking the preview or use a scroll wheel, or hit a icon. Even a keystroke. There are 4 or 5 ways to get 100 percent.

Shot tethered in almost all of this with version 4

Watch the video http://www.fielddominance.com/getdpi/

Because, as I mentioned, if your tech does that then your client can't see the full preview. Also, it's just not practical while your shooting.
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JDG
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2008, 09:35:56 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
The big glaring issue with capture one 4.5 which makes it pretty much useless in a professional environment is that there isn't a small 100 percent view focus window. How it works on a shoot is that your tech person looks at the window which has a 100 percent view on the eyes (or wherever you need focus) to check focus and the client looks at the full size preview to see the shot. It's not hard, it's pretty basic, has phase one never asked how a professional shoot works?
It has lots of fancy new tricks in it but without this feature it is essentially useless to shoot to.


Yes, however with 3.7 if the photographer was shooting a a moderate pace the next image would come in before even the small making checking focus impossible.  One really great thing about Capture One 4.5 is that you can set an image a compare item by just hitting enter.  then you can check focus on that image wile the others come in beside it.
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woof75
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2008, 09:41:15 AM »
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Quote from: JDG
Yes, however with 3.7 if the photographer was shooting a a moderate pace the next image would come in before even the small making checking focus impossible.  One really great thing about Capture One 4.5 is that you can set an image a compare item by just hitting enter.  then you can check focus on that image wile the others come in beside it.

I'll give that a go, I hadn't seen that. I find that any pause, even like 2 seconds, in shooting would give 3.7 time to clear the focus window.
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woof75
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2008, 10:06:49 AM »
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I just tried it and it is a good trick but it is very nice to have a full screen preview and a little box at 100 percent for focus. It was a super useful feature of 3.7.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2008, 10:24:31 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
What is so hard about double clicking the preview or use a scroll wheel, or hit a icon. Even a keystroke. There are 4 or 5 ways to get 100 percent.

Shot tethered in almost all of this with version 4

Watch the video http://www.fielddominance.com/getdpi/


If you have 6 clients staring into the monitor you really can't interrupt the flow to check focus, even running a second image side by side.

The little window in 3.78 was good (though it ate a lot of horsepower), because it was a technical afterthought that the clients didn't really pay any attention to.

They just watched the images come in to get the feel that the shot was there.  To a client, it's a given that your in focus.

It allowed you to mirror a monitor away from the tech station so the clients could be involved but not in the middle of the work station.

Anything that distracts is confusing.

I always felt the best system was Leaf's v-8.  It was cumbersome and had to be reset though it had one separate window that was a contact sheet where there was a complete overview of the session and another window for a larger image.

In some way EOS ultility and DPP does that also.

The perfect client system would be a three monitor setup.  One for the tech that could check focus and detail, etc. and a second and third monitor (away from the tech station) dedicated to the clients.  One monitor would have thumbnails of the complete session the other would just present the full image as it is being shot.


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tho_mas
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2008, 10:41:39 AM »
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Focus tool will be back (according to Ulf L. of Phase Forum and Phase support)
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 10:43:00 AM »
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They just watched the images come in to get the feel that the shot was there. To a client, it's a given that your in focus.

That is what there paying for and if you can't focus to begin with get a new career. Frankly you stop all the time for stylists ,makeup and everything else . It is nothing to check your focus, it literally takes 2 seconds. A little window in my mind is worthless, I need glasses to see it anyway. LOL

To each his own. i see no need myself.
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woof75
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 10:48:14 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
They just watched the images come in to get the feel that the shot was there. To a client, it's a given that your in focus.

That is what there paying for and if you can't focus to begin with get a new career. Frankly you stop all the time for stylists ,makeup and everything else . It is nothing to check your focus, it literally takes 2 seconds. A little window in my mind is worthless, I need glasses to see it anyway. LOL

To each his own. i see no need myself.

I'm not sure who needs to find a new career here Guy? Lets just say, the very best photographers in the world are always checking focus as they know for one reason or another they don't always have it. We'll leave it at that.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2008, 10:56:53 AM »
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I know just busting chops here , we are just so freaking spoiled anymore. I think a lot of us forget where we came from and we had nothing but your brain and experience to get it right because there was nothing to show you if you did . I see posts like this and just laugh, after 35 years I'm just happy I can still see. LOL
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DavidP
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 11:06:20 AM »
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You can't make it work the same in 4.5, the earlier version, you could move it around more easily to where you want to see focus. I have really come to rely on it. partly because, yes my vision isn't quite what it used to be.
There are some really good things about the new version and I know I will learn to get used to it, but there are some important features from the old version that are just missing. I was actually told by someone on the Phase forum quite a while ago that it would be back in the pro version.
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woof75
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 11:13:53 AM »
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Quote from: DavidP
You can't make it work the same in 4.5, the earlier version, you could move it around more easily to where you want to see focus. I have really come to rely on it. partly because, yes my vision isn't quite what it used to be.
There are some really good things about the new version and I know I will learn to get used to it, but there are some important features from the old version that are just missing. I was actually told by someone on the Phase forum quite a while ago that it would be back in the pro version.

Also, it will be ages before assistants have figured out how to use 4.5, I'm sticking with 3.7 to shoot to and 4.5 to develop Raw files.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 12:28:01 PM »
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Quote from: woof75
I just tried it and it is a good trick but it is very nice to have a full screen preview and a little box at 100 percent for focus. It was a super useful feature of 3.7.

You can essentially have this now by utilizing the 2nd monitor setup in Window>Workspaces>Two-Monitor.

You can shrink the 2nd monitor and keep it displayed at 100% with the main window at any zoom ratio you like. It doesn't shrink quite as small as I'd like, but it does shrink to a manageable size and it can be toggled in and out of the frame at will Window>Viewer>Capture One (no shortcut yet that I know of).


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Steve Hendrix
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newrooky
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 12:34:29 PM »
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I agree with James that it is better for everyone to have a monitor that displays images for the clients at a separate location than the tech, and I also agree it is very important to be able to see the focus as you are shooting.  

As a digi-tech I run across the situation where focus slips off the eyes and a quick word to the photog saves a bunch of images, so that is a must.

But i've been running 4.5 since it came out and can't see why we can't satisfy both of these concern.  

If when shooting, I "show viewer" (under window) it opens a separate window that can be used only to view the selected images and has its own control for zooming.  So the client can be starring at the whole image on one monitor and I can be clicking around checking focus and messing with tools on the other one and everyone is happy.  

Similarly, you can set up the client monitor with a compare image of their choice and have it sit on the screen as new images pop up next to it.  Seems good to me.

Brandon
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[span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='color:gray']Brandon Waterman   -  Photo+[/span][/span]
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 12:47:02 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
You can essentially have this now by utilizing the 2nd monitor setup in Window>Workspaces>Two-Monitor.

You can shrink the 2nd monitor and keep it displayed at 100% with the main window at any zoom ratio you like. It doesn't shrink quite as small as I'd like, but it does shrink to a manageable size and it can be toggled in and out of the frame at will Window>Viewer>Capture One (no shortcut yet that I know of).


Steve Hendrix
Phase One


Steve,

When you say the viewer window doesn't shirk as small as you would like, how small are we talking.  I was have been testing it in windows (as opposed to my mac) for the first day today and I can shrink the viewer window smaller than I would ever want, and then it acts similar to the focus window did in 3.7.9.  

That being said, I can't remember if I could (or if I even tried) in the mac version the last 2 days to shrink that window much.    It should be noted that the Windows version also lets you toggle between the 2 windows with alt+tab as the manager(win) looks at every window open as opposed to every program(mac), not that I work with PCs often enough for it to matter and the ability to create custom tool tabs and float the tools outweighs the toggle benefits anyway.

 Hope everyone has a good day,

Brandon
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[span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='color:gray']Brandon Waterman   -  Photo+[/span][/span]
James R Russell
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 12:50:38 PM »
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Quote from: newrooky
I agree with James that it is better for everyone to have a monitor that displays images for the clients at a separate location than the tech, and I also agree it is very important to be able to see the focus as you are shooting.  

As a digi-tech I run across the situation where focus slips off the eyes and a quick word to the photog saves a bunch of images, so that is a must.

But i've been running 4.5 since it came out and can't see why we can't satisfy both of these concern.  

If when shooting, I "show viewer" (under window) it opens a separate window that can be used only to view the selected images and has its own control for zooming.  So the client can be starring at the whole image on one monitor and I can be clicking around checking focus and messing with tools on the other one and everyone is happy.  

Similarly, you can set up the client monitor with a compare image of their choice and have it sit on the screen as new images pop up next to it.  Seems good to me.

Brandon

I haven't run 4.5, (though we are loading it on a pc to see how it tetheres to a Canon).   I probably won't use 4.5 until December at the earliest due to schedule and I don't like to introduce new anything when there is a lot of pressure on the schedule.

So I will have to say I don't know it's functions and it may do everything I eventually need.

I do know very well how clients review a session and edit and their requirements and it's much nicer for a client if the captured image is large, the session is on a seperate monitor so they can go back and call up some images for review before we move on.

It is also much nicer for the digital tech if the clients are close but at another station.  We routinely run a second 23" or 30" monitor to the clients so the tech can do his/her work and not be distracted.

As far as focus, whatever, but I guess it depends on how you shoot, how much is going on in the room and it also depends on the shot. Focus can be easy or hard, but in the world of digital focus is very critical and seems to be less forgiving than the film days.

I just shot with the 110 F2 on my contax's and everything close up was dead on, everything further back we had to adjust for some back focus, but then again I shoot a lot very close to wide open so there is very little room for error.  Having the 3.78 window was nice and made it easier to adjust quickly on a busy day, without interfering with the clients view of the shoot.

On these instances it's great when the tech catches it early, we adjust and then everything is fine.


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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 01:06:41 PM »
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Quote from: woof75
I'm not sure who needs to find a new career here Guy? Lets just say, the very best photographers in the world are always checking focus as they know for one reason or another they don't always have it. We'll leave it at that.

I also took exception to your sub-title on this thread, "unusable for a pro."  I'm a pro, I am very happy with the new features, and it works great for me.  And clearly my needs are different than yours...

Perhaps it would have been better if you had not made it such an all-inclusive statement and said something like, "makes it unusable for me" or "makes it unusable for this pro..."

Cheers,
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 01:09:55 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

tho_mas
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 02:19:19 PM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
It doesn't shrink quite as small as I'd like, but it does shrink to a manageable size and it can be toggled in and out of the frame at will Window>Viewer>Capture One (no shortcut yet that I know of).
Quote from: newrooky
I was have been testing it in windows (as opposed to my mac) for the first day today and I can shrink the viewer window smaller than I would ever want, and then it acts similar to the focus window did in 3.7.9.
That being said, I can't remember if I could (or if I even tried) in the mac version the last 2 days to shrink that window much
On Windows you can shrink it as small as you like (stamp size). On Mac there is a limit as you can fade in all the tools in the viewer. On Windows you can't fade in the tools.
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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2008, 02:25:33 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
On Windows you can shrink it as small as you like (stamp size). On Mac there is a limit as you can fade in all the tools in the viewer. On Windows you can't fade in the tools.

Thanks for that Tho Mas.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Steve Hendrix
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Direct: 404.543.8475
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