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Author Topic: I don't like any of the new MF cameras  (Read 7953 times)
woof75
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« on: October 22, 2008, 08:03:51 AM »
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I recently went into fotocare to look at all these new toys I keep reading about around here. I don't like any of them.

Hasselblad H3: grey handle looks plasticky and feels plasticky, not nice at all, most importantly though, mirror slap.

HY6: plastic, ugly, cumbersom, horrible viewfinder, looks so cheap it's terrible. Heavy.

Mamiya 645 AFD 3: the grip s wy too big to hold easily, I have really big hands and it was still uncomfortable to hold the thing.

Saves me some cash at least, I'm sticking with my 645 AFD (original version). Shutter lag can be a problem I hear, I don't shoot moving things so it's not a problem. I do shoot people but there not moving quickly enough to even notice the lag. AF to me, is as good (or as bad) as any other MF camera. I love old tech, I have a spare body which cost about 800 bucks. I recently broke a shutter, sent it off for a brand new one, 400 dollars and a loaner in the meantime, no questions asked, no pro service agreement bull. Send us the loaner body back when you've done with it deal (from Mac group, a great company).
It seems there's nothing in the world of backs out that could make a better 11* 14 print than my P21 (non plus model) either.
Makes me a very happy camper indeed!
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thsinar
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« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 08:16:55 AM »
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Please allow me to correct,

- Plastic: Not true, the Hy6 body is metallic with a protection cover

- Ugly: is a question of taste, cannot be argued, your opinion

- Cumbersome: it is not the feedback from ALL customers using it, without exception

- Horrible view finder: can you emphasize which one you are speaking about?

- Heavy: also not true. I have weighted and compared with a H3D, with the same accessories and with batteries inside. There was a difference of 10 grams, in favour of the Hy6

Thierry

Quote from: woof75
HY6: plastic, ugly, cumbersom, horrible viewfinder, looks so cheap it's terrible. Heavy.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 08:25:18 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
HY6: plastic, ugly, cumbersom, horrible viewfinder, looks so cheap it's terrible. Heavy.

Which viewfinder did you look at/through?
Plastic? What do you mean? The casing?
Cumbersome in what way?
As for the weight, the Hy6 is only 2.1 kg including digital back and normal lens. I'm guessing your 645 is at least as heavy.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 08:26:10 AM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 08:40:02 AM »
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The original Mamiya AFD is no slouch.  So if you don't feel the need to upgrade---you did save a ton of cash!

I began shooting with the original 645AF and migated to the AFD.  I recently made the jump to the Phase 645AF----and love the improvements.  But *ouch*---the msrp has moved up considerably from the AFD/AFD II versions.
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jmvdigital
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 08:47:57 AM »
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Not to be mean, but what is the point of this post? If you're happy with your AFD, we're all happy for you. End of story.
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woof75
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 08:59:15 AM »
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Quote from: jmvdigital
Not to be mean, but what is the point of this post? If you're happy with your AFD, we're all happy for you. End of story.

The point of the post is to try to buck the camera companies up a bit and hope that we get better cameras. There are pretty glaring problems with all of them to my mind.
To clarify, although the H3 might be all metal, when you hold the grip and you squeeze a little, it gives, it feels very chintzy and it looks horrible. Thee biggest issue though is mirror slap.
The HY6, I know taste is subjective but to my mind it looks terrible, not a patch on the old Rollies. The viewfinder casing is the cheapest looking finish imaginable. And yes, it is cumbersome, it has no elegance. It seemed heavy, maybe that was just the lens they had on it. the mamiya does often make anything feel heavy as it's a focal plain shutter.
The Mamiya 645 AFD 3 may have a bunch of "improvements" (non of which sound like real practical improvements, I hear of battery problems) but it's awful to hold (IMO).
I think Contax trumped everyone, what, 8 years ago with there 645 camera, it's about time camera companies sorted that out.
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 09:59:35 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
The point of the post is to try to buck the camera companies up a bit and hope that we get better cameras. There are pretty glaring problems with all of them to my mind.
To clarify, although the H3 might be all metal, when you hold the grip and you squeeze a little, it gives, it feels very chintzy and it looks horrible. Thee biggest issue though is mirror slap.
The HY6, I know taste is subjective but to my mind it looks terrible, not a patch on the old Rollies. The viewfinder casing is the cheapest looking finish imaginable. And yes, it is cumbersome, it has no elegance. It seemed heavy, maybe that was just the lens they had on it. the mamiya does often make anything feel heavy as it's a focal plain shutter.
The Mamiya 645 AFD 3 may have a bunch of "improvements" (non of which sound like real practical improvements, I hear of battery problems) but it's awful to hold (IMO).
I think Contax trumped everyone, what, 8 years ago with there 645 camera, it's about time camera companies sorted that out.

big view, big mirror, big slap. i had the contax and i loved the lenses, but the view finder was like looking through a needle hole compared to the hassy. and the battery consumption was at that time a pita. i mean i liked the camera, but it's not better besides with the mirror delay function the slap has no effect on the final picture. just loud...but still not as loud as an rz67 canonball slap  
i actually like the hassy grip, feels good in my hand.
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woof75
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« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 10:10:20 AM »
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Quote from: kipling
big view, big mirror, big slap. i had the contax and i loved the lenses, but the view finder was like looking through a needle hole compared to the hassy. and the battery consumption was at that time a pita. i mean i liked the camera, but it's not better besides with the mirror delay function the slap has no effect on the final picture. just loud...but still not as loud as an rz67 canonball slap  
i actually like the hassy grip, feels good in my hand.

Interesting, what's the deal with this mirror delay thing?
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 10:23:52 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
Interesting, what's the deal with this mirror delay thing?

Its funny how this keeps popping up!  ;-)

Did you actually shoot some images and draw the conclusion there was a troublesome mirror slap?  Or is it just a feeling?  Noise can be deceiving.

The Mirror delay introduces a 25, 50, 100 or 200ms delay after the mirror has risen until releasing the leaf shutter.

Our customers who use this report nothing but positive findings.  You can ask on the forum, I am sure.

Perhaps its worth a trip back to FotoCare to really find out about the camera.

Best


David

Edit - I am not sure what 'gives' when you squeeze the grip?  It is a flexible material?  But anyway, perhaps on your next visit to FotoCare they could show you the padded hand grip.  Customers with larger hands often like this option.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 10:27:16 AM by David Grover / Hasselblad » Logged

David Grover
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Dale Allyn
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« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 10:26:26 AM »
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In contrast to Woof, I would like to (and plan to) move from the AFD II to the AFD III/Phase One body if for no other reason than the mirror lock up control. I find the process on the AFD II very cumbersome at times. I very much dislike the requirement to partially depress the shutter to engage the shutter for MLU. It's not uncommon to miss the engagement and therefore have to drop the mirror and begin again.
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robert zimmerman
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 10:28:04 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
Interesting, what's the deal with this mirror delay thing?
under custom options you can set "extra mirror delay" from 25ms to 200ms. it delays the mirror just enough to make the capture before the slap. i can pretty easily hand hold at 1/60th.
so, the slap is just a noise on the hassy.
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woof75
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 10:58:09 AM »
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Quote from: kipling
under custom options you can set "extra mirror delay" from 25ms to 200ms. it delays the mirror just enough to make the capture before the slap. i can pretty easily hand hold at 1/60th.
so, the slap is just a noise on the hassy.

That is interesting, I tested a H2 a while ago and thought the mirror slap to be quite bad and I couldn't hand hold at anything slower than 125th ish and at that I had to be careful. I didn't know about this function though. I stand corrected on the mirror slap. I don't like the color of the thing but I could probably get over that.
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 11:03:42 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
That is interesting, I tested a H2 a while ago and thought the mirror slap to be quite bad and I couldn't hand hold at anything slower than 125th ish and at that I had to be careful. I didn't know about this function though. I stand corrected on the mirror slap. I don't like the color of the thing but I could probably get over that.

It really does make a difference, and to be honest you don't really notice the delay.

But don't take my word for it.  Shoot ten pictures at 1/60 and then ten pictures with a mirror delay on and see for yourself.

David


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David Grover
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kdphotography
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 12:57:49 PM »
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Quote from: woof75
(non of which sound like real practical improvements, I hear of battery problems) but it's awful to hold (IMO).

The improvements on the new AFD III and Phase 645AF are very real----and I really like the new body.

The Mamiya 645AF and latter iterations have always been capable of eating normal Energizer and Duracell AA batteries for breakfast---and this includes your venerable AFD model.  I have not had any "battery problems" with the new Phase 645AF----that wasn't solved by using the very same battery that I used in the original AFD:  Energizer Lithium AAs.  Much lighter weight, long lasting, and work well in hot and cold climes.  

 
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woof75
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 01:37:10 PM »
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Quote from: kdphotography
The improvements on the new AFD III and Phase 645AF are very real----and I really like the new body.

The Mamiya 645AF and latter iterations have always been capable of eating normal Energizer and Duracell AA batteries for breakfast---and this includes your venerable AFD model.  I have not had any "battery problems" with the new Phase 645AF----that wasn't solved by using the very same battery that I used in the original AFD:  Energizer Lithium AAs.  Much lighter weight, long lasting, and work well in hot and cold climes.  

 
I like the sound of lighter weight batteries, I'll have to try the energizer lithiums, they do cost a lot more it seems, do they end up costing more when you take into account the longer lasting nature of them? I rarely have to replace the batteries on my 645 AFD, every 3000 shots or so if I were to guess. I remember when I was an assistant the contax 645 was a bit of a battery eater, my mamiya's are nothing like that. I use the Duracell ultra batteries at present.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 01:37:42 PM by woof75 » Logged
Wayne Fox
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 01:44:22 PM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Its funny how this keeps popping up!  ;-)

The Mirror delay introduces a 25, 50, 100 or 200ms delay after the mirror has risen until releasing the leaf shutter.


David

Edit - I am not sure what 'gives' when you squeeze the grip?  It is a flexible material?  But anyway, perhaps on your next visit to FotoCare they could show you the padded hand grip.  Customers with larger hands often like this option.

I use mirror lockup 90% of the time, but have had trouble with mirror slap when I do the occasional outdoor portrait.  I'm still shooting an original H1, so I assume this feature was added through the firmware upgrade?  I never got around to upgrading the firmware (which I believe makes the camera equivalent to an H2?).  Could you recommend what my best options are to getting this done now.

As far as this thread goes ... I had an Mamiya 645 with a Kodak Digital Back, and when I moved to a Phase One back, I switched to the Hasselblad.  While I'm not real happy with Hasselblad's direction over the past couple of years to lock people into their backs as well, I personally enjoy the camera and have no regrets switching.
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Alex MacPherson
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 01:46:06 PM »
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Mamiya Afd II kit listed in the buy/sell  
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Alex MacPherson

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jimgolden
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 05:17:19 PM »
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H3 mirror delay works great...plus the H3 mirror was damped a bit over previous...
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2008, 05:53:09 PM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
I use mirror lockup 90% of the time, but have had trouble with mirror slap when I do the occasional outdoor portrait.  I'm still shooting an original H1, so I assume this feature was added through the firmware upgrade?  I never got around to upgrading the firmware (which I believe makes the camera equivalent to an H2?).  Could you recommend what my best options are to getting this done now.

As far as this thread goes ... I had an Mamiya 645 with a Kodak Digital Back, and when I moved to a Phase One back, I switched to the Hasselblad.  While I'm not real happy with Hasselblad's direction over the past couple of years to lock people into their backs as well, I personally enjoy the camera and have no regrets switching.

Yes, the feature was added through a simple firmware upgrade.  

I don't know of your location but this can be done at any Hasselblad service centre or in Sweden.  It won't fully upgrade the camera to an H2 as there is a hardware change to the body as well.  This enables the body to supply power from the grip to a Hasselblad CF digital back.

If you have a friend / colleague with an Ixpress or Hasselblad CF back then they could update the firmware for you through Phocus or FlexColor.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the switch!

Best,



David

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David Grover
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2008, 07:34:55 PM »
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If your going to stay with the Mamiya AFD than you may at least upgrade to the AFD-II. It is a lot better to work with and the shutter delay is better. There are some added benefits from the AFD to the II version. Not sure of them all but i was a lot happier going to the II from the AFD. Now i have the new III version ( Phase One) and i like this one even better and some new firmware is coming but has not been announced yet. That improves it even more.
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