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Author Topic: Does a rail like this exist?  (Read 5061 times)
Graham Mitchell
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« on: October 27, 2008, 03:07:19 AM »
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I have been shooting and stitching panos quite successfully with my Rollei 6008AF/Sinar e54 and Arca Swiss ballhead (which has a pano base) . I have been shooting mostly distant subjects so far and parallex error hasn't been an issue (probably because the Rollei base is aligned with the rear of the lens so the offset error isn't that bad). However I would like to try some much closer subjects, so I need to rotate around the lens' nodal point.

Ok, so all I really need is a way to hold the camera at an offset, and that offset must be adjustable. The adjustment is very easy if it's a QR style rail which will be gripped by a clamp.

So all I really need is a RRS/Wimberley compatible rail with a captive bolt on one end which can screw into the camera base. The thread you see in the diagram is part of that movable bolt. It should have a collapsible handle on the other side, so that it fits flush under the rail.

Sounds easy. Does it exist? I searched for hours but the images on most websites were so small and blurry that I had no idea if the part was right or not.

To put it another way, what I am looking for is a basic QR plate with an extension on one side.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 04:54:29 AM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
wildlightphoto
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 06:42:55 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
To put it another way, what I am looking for is a basic QR plate with an extension on one side.


How about a long lens plate?

http://acratech.net/product.php?productid=...t=20&page=1

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Kumar
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 06:57:45 AM »
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Graham,

Are you looking for something like this? This is for 35mm cameras - not sure if it could support a 6008. As you see in the first picture, the camera would be mounted on the 1/4 inch screw. The second picture shows the bottom with the plate where it would sit on the tripod.

Kumar
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 08:25:24 AM by Kumar » Logged

Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 07:19:35 AM »
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Quote from: telyt

Very close indeed. However I can't tell from the image or text whether those bolts can be operated by hand, or do they require a tool? If they had one of those folding tops it would be great.
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 07:47:55 AM »
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This might work for you

http://www.kirkphoto.com/supports.html

the long rail, particularly if there's an Acra Swiss style plate on you camera.  Note that the QR on the rail can rotate 90 degrees, this is (somewhat) useful in that you can use the rail with either a lens collar plate, or a plate on the camera, (which are 90 degress rotated from each other).  Check the length since the rail isn't all that long.
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 10:22:00 AM »
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Graham,

how will you rotate (swiwel) the camera horizontally on a ballhead? The camera itself does not need to be level (sometimes it can not be), but the rotation base has to be level, or you have to crop a lot.

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Gabor
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 11:44:27 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
I have been shooting and stitching panos quite successfully with my Rollei 6008AF/Sinar e54 and Arca Swiss ballhead (which has a pano base) . I have been shooting mostly distant subjects so far and parallex error hasn't been an issue (probably because the Rollei base is aligned with the rear of the lens so the offset error isn't that bad). However I would like to try some much closer subjects, so I need to rotate around the lens' nodal point.

Ok, so all I really need is a way to hold the camera at an offset, and that offset must be adjustable. The adjustment is very easy if it's a QR style rail which will be gripped by a clamp.

So all I really need is a RRS/Wimberley compatible rail with a captive bolt on one end which can screw into the camera base. The thread you see in the diagram is part of that movable bolt. It should have a collapsible handle on the other side, so that it fits flush under the rail.

Sounds easy. Does it exist? I searched for hours but the images on most websites were so small and blurry that I had no idea if the part was right or not.

To put it another way, what I am looking for is a basic QR plate with an extension on one side.


I know that RSS has what you're looking for, give them a call its easier to talk to them than navigate their site.

david
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jeffreybehr
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 12:09:08 PM »
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Graham, I have used the Kirk Long Rail Plate for that exact thing...shooting panos with the lens nodal point aligned...and it works greatly.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/supports.html#Fatbag

http://www.kirkphoto.com/LRP1big.jpg
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 12:01:01 PM by jeffreybehr » Logged

Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 10:06:38 PM »
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Quote from: Panopeeper
Graham,

how will you rotate (swiwel) the camera horizontally on a ballhead? The camera itself does not need to be level (sometimes it can not be), but the rotation base has to be level, or you have to crop a lot.

My ballhead has a pano base (a.k.a. rotating housing)

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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 10:07:20 PM »
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Thanks for the very helpful replies!
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 03:40:06 AM »
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Others offered a RRS option which will also accept a clamp. I find their site very difficult to navigate as mentioned, but they have a helpful print catalogue that you might find very helpful. They show several rails, stereography equipment, several clamps, etc. Lots to fuel the thought process. I much prefer flipping through the pages of the catalogue to trying to navigate their site. And they're great on the phone, but I know that you have to deal with a significant time difference, Graham.
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 03:12:29 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
My ballhead has a pano base (a.k.a. rotating housing)

That looks great (and heavy). However, you must not use the ballhead between the frames, i.e. the equipment is not suitable for multirow panos if you need really high accuracy in stitching, like indoor architecture, as the vertical change between frames too has to be done around the entrance pupil.
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Gabor
jeffreybehr
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 11:54:44 PM »
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"That looks great (and heavy). However, you must not use the ballhead between the frames, i.e. the equipment is not suitable for multirow panos if you need really high accuracy in stitching, like indoor architecture, as the vertical change between frames too has to be done around the entrance pupil."

That's the function of the long-rail plate, to allow one to position the lens at the entrance pupil so that there's no apparent movement of close objects when rotating the system.

Or by 'use the ballhead between the frames' did you mean rotate the ball?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 12:52:15 AM »
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Quote from: Panopeeper
That looks great (and heavy). However, you must not use the ballhead between the frames, i.e. the equipment is not suitable for multirow panos if you need really high accuracy in stitching, like indoor architecture, as the vertical change between frames too has to be done around the entrance pupil.

Hi, that is true and I understand the limitation. I have never done any multi-row panos so I'm not too bothered about that. Thanks.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
Panopeeper
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2008, 01:15:48 AM »
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Quote from: jeffreybehr
That's the function of the long-rail plate, to allow one to position the lens at the entrance pupil so that there's no apparent movement of close objects when rotating the system.
That allows for swiweling horizontally, but not for tilting up and down. For a multirow pano one needs to suspend the camera such way, that tilting too occurs around the nodal point, for example by an L-bracket.

This is my own (self-made) bracket. This allows for the mounting of the camera only in portrait orientation, which is what I want anyway (Graham's camera is in portrait orientation in the horizontal position, so he is served well with a single rail). For tilting I lift/sink the rail and fasten that triangular whatever under the rail.

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Gabor
bjanes
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2008, 07:11:01 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
My ballhead has a pano base (a.k.a. rotating housing)


I have a similar ball head with a rotating pano base. The only problem with such a unit is that you have to have some means to make the base of the unit parallel with the ground so that you can rotate the camera horizontally without shifting in the vertical axis. One way to do this is to fiddle with the tripod legs to level the base of the ball head. An easier method is to use something like the RSS PCL-1. This device attaches to the ball head unit. You then use the ball head to level the unit and rotate the camera in the horizontal plane with the PCL-1. If you need to rotate the camera vertically (e.g. multi-row panos), you can add a second unit as shown at the bottom of this link. You could also use a home made device such as shown by Panopeeper.

For the parallax adjustment you could use any number of rails by RSS or others. The process is easier if you have a quick release plate to attach the camera to the rail. Apparently, RSS does not make such a plate for the Rollei, so you would have to use a generic plate. Other options are discussed here: Photonet Rollei QR

Bill
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2008, 11:10:54 AM »
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Quote
An easier method is to use something like the RSS PCL-1. This device attaches to the ball head unit. You then use the ball head to level the unit and rotate the camera in the horizontal plane with the PCL-1.
There's a rather significant limitation to putting the PCL-1 on top of the ballhead as opposed to using a leveling base below the head. With the PCL-1, the camera itself must remain level (parallel to the ground); you can't tilt the camera up/down or you end up shooting an arc instead of a level pano.

I originally got the PCL-1 and a rail (the "Pano Elements" package) but quickly found this limitation to be a real problem in the field. I've since moved to the full "omni-pivot" RRS pano package, which not only allows shooting with the camera pointed up/down, but also makes multi-row and vertical panos easy.
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2008, 11:55:40 AM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
There's a rather significant limitation to putting the PCL-1 on top of the ballhead as opposed to using a leveling base below the head. With the PCL-1, the camera itself must remain level (parallel to the ground); you can't tilt the camera up/down or you end up shooting an arc instead of a level pano
It is possible to shoot with the camera in an angle, as long as the plane of horizontal rotation is level; the question is how high accuracy is required.

If the camera is tilted, the rail is tilted as well. The problem is with the camera offset. Example: if the required offset is 100mm and the camera is tilted 20 downwards or upwards, the effective offset will be only 94mm. If one knows this and compensates for the difference, even multirow panos can be created this way; however, in the praxis this won't be as accurate as the equipment allows for, and in very sensitive cases it can lead to parallax error.
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Gabor
bjanes
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2008, 12:05:31 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
There's a rather significant limitation to putting the PCL-1 on top of the ballhead as opposed to using a leveling base below the head. With the PCL-1, the camera itself must remain level (parallel to the ground); you can't tilt the camera up/down or you end up shooting an arc instead of a level pano.

I originally got the PCL-1 and a rail (the "Pano Elements" package) but quickly found this limitation to be a real problem in the field. I've since moved to the full "omni-pivot" RRS pano package, which not only allows shooting with the camera pointed up/down, but also makes multi-row and vertical panos easy.

Jeff, I was aware of this limitation and included a link to the "omni-pivot" RRS pano package in my post. One can easily upgrade to the full package, but that doubles the required investment. For now, I am getting by with the basic unit. With the full package, one could use a multirow pano from a 35 mm style dSRL to rival the quality from a medium format digital camera or even a 4x5 view camera.
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petermacc
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2008, 04:05:47 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
I have been shooting and stitching panos quite successfully with my Rollei 6008AF/Sinar e54 and Arca Swiss ballhead (which has a pano base) . I have been shooting mostly distant subjects so far and parallex error hasn't been an issue (probably because the Rollei base is aligned with the rear of the lens so the offset error isn't that bad). However I would like to try some much closer subjects, so I need to rotate around the lens' nodal point.

Ok, so all I really need is a way to hold the camera at an offset, and that offset must be adjustable. The adjustment is very easy if it's a QR style rail which will be gripped by a clamp.

So all I really need is a RRS/Wimberley compatible rail with a captive bolt on one end which can screw into the camera base. The thread you see in the diagram is part of that movable bolt. It should have a collapsible handle on the other side, so that it fits flush under the rail.

Sounds easy. Does it exist? I searched for hours but the images on most websites were so small and blurry that I had no idea if the part was right or not.

To put it another way, what I am looking for is a basic QR plate with an extension on one side.



Talk to the guys at
http://reallyrightstuff.com/index.html
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 04:09:38 PM by petermacc » Logged
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