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Author Topic: Be VERY careful giving Phase One your money  (Read 7210 times)
alan9940
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« on: October 28, 2008, 11:08:16 AM »
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Dear LL Forum members,

Not trying to spam this forum or bad mouth Phase One, rather I wanted to warn folks to be careful when dealing with less than reputable organizations...maybe, I'll save ya a dime...

Posting this message on every forum that I participate on:

********************************************************************************

To all forum members:

BE VERY CAREFUL IF BUYING SOMETHING FROM PHASE ONE THAT THEY HAVEN'T DELIVERED, YET...IF THEY MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT YOUR UPGRADE PATH FOR C1 SOFTWARE, THEY WILL NOT REFUND YOUR MONEY.

Here's my case: several years ago I purchased what Phase One called a "5-pack upgrade" add-on option when I upgraded to SE. About a year later, when I upgraded to PRO I received two free upgrades just for going to PRO, and my previous "5-pack" was converted to 2 PRO upgrades. Seemed fair enough...

Therefore, I now had 4 free PRO upgrades coming to me. That was in 2004. Back then this upgrade path seemed very reasonable and desirable since C1 was really the only worthwhile game in town. So, I feel for it! Fast forward to today with the release of C1 PRO v4.5--keep in my that it has been 4 FULL years since we've seen a major PRO upgrage--and my fairly "beefed" Mac tower doesn't meet the minimum system requirements for this latest release of C1. I'd have to run out and buy new hardware just for C1!!! I don't think so scooter!!! Therefore, those "free" and unused upgrades that I purchased 4 years ago are useless to me now...

But, I was just told by Phase One that they don't refund money!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore, if you give them your money IT'S GONE!!!!!!!! Watch carefully what you're buying!!!!!!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 11:09:05 AM by alan9940 » Logged
DarkPenguin
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 11:27:48 AM »
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Cry me a river.  Upgrade your hardware.
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dkeyes
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 12:12:27 PM »
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Let me get this straight, because your old system can't work with the new software it's the software makers/Phase fault? This is the software maker AND the hardware makers scam IMO. Upgrade, upgrade, spend, spend. They are intertwined and feed off each other. I never upgrade hardware or software unless absolutely necessary (people do this way too often I think), because you can't do one without the other these days.
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joern_kiel
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 03:09:48 PM »
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Quote from: alan9940
To all forum members:

BE VERY CAREFUL IF BUYING SOMETHING FROM PHASE ONE THAT THEY HAVEN'T DELIVERED, YET...IF THEY MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT YOUR UPGRADE PATH FOR C1 SOFTWARE, THEY WILL NOT REFUND YOUR MONEY.

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alan9940
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 06:14:38 PM »
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Quote from: DarkPenguin
Cry me a river.  Upgrade your hardware.

Ain't no way I'm upgrading hardware just to run C1 software. Phase One made a decision to base C1 PRO v4.5 specifically on Intel-based Macs running OS X 10.5.5. That's it! That's the MINIMUM system requirements!! Personally, I couldn't give a hoot about this software or Phase One...I'm very happy running LR2. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single RAW converter currently out there that won't run under OS X 10.4.11 on a PowerPC-based Mac. With so many good choices out there who gives a damn about C1!!

Sorry, but I get upset when people take my money and then don't deliver on what I paid for. I currently have 4 UNUSED activations of C1 PRO software that I paid for 4 years ago, and now can't use without buying a new computer. That's stealing...plain and simple. That's BULLSHIT!!

Hey, if you've got some extra cash available that you'd like to send me I'll pass along my address or, hell, just e-mail to my Paypal account. Unlike Phase One, I'll even send ya something back...a copper engraving of Lincoln!!!
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alan9940
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 06:19:36 PM »
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Quote from: dkeyes
Let me get this straight, because your old system can't work with the new software it's the software makers/Phase fault? This is the software maker AND the hardware makers scam IMO. Upgrade, upgrade, spend, spend. They are intertwined and feed off each other. I never upgrade hardware or software unless absolutely necessary (people do this way too often I think), because you can't do one without the other these days.

Nope, no one's fault...just thought I'd be entitled to get money back for unused upgrades that I paid for, in earnest, 4 years ago. Just goes to show ya that very few entities these days give a damn about the customer. Thankfully, there are still a few out here who do; Michael and the LL gang jump to mind!
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The View
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 01:50:23 AM »
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You either continue running the old version, or upgrade your hardware to run the new version.

It's that simple.


Why should Phase One be at fault because you don't want to upgrade?

You sound like you're having a lot of stress from some other source, and now blow your fuses on this slightly exotic sounding topic.


Just relax.



PS: good to read that their latest software only runs on Leopard. I have Tiger (and don't intend to upgrade to Leopard), so no C1 Pro for now.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 01:56:33 AM by The View » Logged

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stevephoto
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 06:39:21 AM »
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i think that what the OP is saying is that when he got this software upgrade deal, he figured there would be regular upgrades ( annually at the minimum? ), so he was pissed off after finally getting a chance to use his upgrade permission to find out that due to the time it took for the upgraded software to arrive, he would now have to pay to upgrade his computer

as i keep getting told by phase dealers that phase is the only company that offers future protection for a photographer, i think he has a point and phase should reinburse him - not the dealer he bought the upgrade through, since they sold it in good faith - 4 years is a long time for an upgrade. i doubt anyone else will be buying multiple upgrade paths and i have certainly taken note of the OP's point!


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teddillard
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« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 07:03:08 AM »
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I really don't intend to fan flames here, but this upgrade issue is something I see from both sides of the fence.  I've worked as a photographer, a photo dealer and now as an Apple IT consultant.  

You have to decide what your basic upgrade strategy is going to be.  From my point of view, you have two options.  You either stay on the current upgrade bubble and do relatively minor, but constant, upgrades in software and hardware, or you set up a system that works and run it until it becomes obsolete and replace it entirely as a major upgrade.  

This is not at all unlike how you approach your car.  Do you get a new model every few years, or do you buy one and run it until it drops?  I'm not advocating either strategy here...  but this is what you have to decide on.

The assumption that you're making is first, that a software upgrade is somehow separate from a hardware upgrade.  They are absolutely, and essentially linked.  You cannot assume that any, ANY software upgrade will not in some way require a hardware upgrade.  This is why it's called a system.  The second assumption that you're making is that a software company can somehow guarantee that their package will be current with any forseeable hardware configuration for a considerable amount of time.  You're talking 4 years at this point?  I would say, respectfully, thats unreasonable.  

To go back to the basic strategies I mentioned, what you're doing here is using the "drive it into the ground" strategy, but then only looking to replace, er, the motor, for lack of a better analogy.  In some cases you can do that, in some you simply can't, in some cases (for a car, anyway) it's downright dangerous.  If you're going to run the system without regular maintenance, you have to expect that you will need to replace the whole thing at once.  

Again, with respect, you've tried to have your cake, by buying the upgrade path (which a manufacturer like Phase really intends as a maintenance strategy, by the way) and to eat it too (by staving off any upgrades until it becomes absolutely essential).
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Ted Dillard
kaelaria
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« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 07:40:49 AM »
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If you are happy working on a 4 year old computer, then you have no need for new software anyway.
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Paul2660
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« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2008, 08:03:54 AM »
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I hear your point on the hardware investment. Espcially in these economic times.

Curious, did you try to install it anyway on the older version of the Mac OS you have?   I thought I read
on one the forums that 4.5 installed on the previous Mac OS.

I am in a similar situation with XP 64 bit.  Not yet wanting to move to Vista 64.  XP 64 bit is the forgotten stepchild.  However as long as a
compatable driver is out there, most programs will run (but not supported by the Manufacturer).    No slant to Phase, but I have gotten
more correct info from forum like this one then a open problem ticket with them.  

On the PC side, Capture 4.5 is not supported on XP 64 bit, only Vista (not even sure if they have 64 bit there either) but it installed fine and runs.
I am not tethering which could easily cause a problem since there won't be a correct camera driver.  

Lightroom 2.0 64 bit also runs fine on XP 64 bit, again no support from Adobe.  I am hoping that CS4 will do the same.  I was told by
Adobe earlier that CS4 would install, but they won't support it on XP 64 bit.


Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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alan9940
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« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2008, 01:26:58 PM »
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Quote from: stevephoto
i think that what the OP is saying is that when he got this software upgrade deal, he figured there would be regular upgrades ( annually at the minimum? ), so he was pissed off after finally getting a chance to use his upgrade permission to find out that due to the time it took for the upgraded software to arrive, he would now have to pay to upgrade his computer

as i keep getting told by phase dealers that phase is the only company that offers future protection for a photographer, i think he has a point and phase should reinburse him - not the dealer he bought the upgrade through, since they sold it in good faith - 4 years is a long time for an upgrade. i doubt anyone else will be buying multiple upgrade paths and i have certainly taken note of the OP's point!

THANK YOU, stevephoto...someone, one person, anyway, who FINALLY understands the point of my original post. I really don't care what Phase One's strategy is for C1 software and, having been in the computer field myself for 30+ years, I understand the need to move forward and, perhaps, let go of older technologies in order to implement newer and greater functionality. That's fine...but, that's not what I purchased 4 years ago! Honestly, 4 years ago I would have thought that I'd have used up my "free" upgrades by now!!

I think Phase is making a mistake. Kind of like Apple with their new glossy-only Macbook Pro screens... I don't know of a single other RAW converter out there that doesn't run under OS X 10.4.11 and, the funny part is, I know a few pro photographers who haven't yet upgraded to OS X 10.5 and used to be C1 PRO users. Not everyone upgrades hardware/software every year or so!

Anyway, thanks, again, for understanding my point.
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kaelaria
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« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2008, 01:42:17 PM »
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Yeah, we all got that part.

Here's the bottom line.

There was no where that stated how often upgrades were coming out, period.  You *ASSUMED* a schedule and were wrong.  Now you want your money back because the actual schedule does not fit your needs.

We understand it's inconvenient for you.  But it's no one's fault, unless you have somewhere where they said 'you will have x amount of upgrades per year'.  Otherwise - oops, that sucks for people like you that live with very old technology.  And that's not a bad thing, if you can get away with doing so.  Personally I can't imagine doing so, it would be utterly frustrating to try and use 4 year old systems compared to current generations.
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teddillard
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2008, 03:04:32 PM »
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Quote from: kaelaria
Yeah, we all got that part.

Here's the bottom line.

There was no where that stated how often upgrades were coming out, period.  You *ASSUMED* a schedule and were wrong.  Now you want your money back because the actual schedule does not fit your needs.

We understand it's inconvenient for you.  But it's no one's fault, unless you have somewhere where they said 'you will have x amount of upgrades per year'.  Otherwise - oops, that sucks for people like you that live with very old technology.  And that's not a bad thing, if you can get away with doing so.  Personally I can't imagine doing so, it would be utterly frustrating to try and use 4 year old systems compared to current generations.

I'd like to second that...  and, I went back and re-read your original post.  I don't understand how you can be in the computer field for 30+ years and feel that Phase has burned you on this.  And frankly:

"Not trying to spam this forum or bad mouth Phase One, rather I wanted to warn folks to be careful when dealing with less than reputable organizations...maybe, I'll save ya a dime...  Posting this message on every forum that I participate on:"


Well, that reads as quite the opposite intent.  You very clearly are spamming forums as well as badmouthing Phase One, even within that very sentence.  I'd be interested to hear what other forums (fori?) have responded to you.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:06:05 PM by teddillard » Logged

Ted Dillard
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 03:48:15 PM »
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Quote from: alan9940
Not trying to spam this forum or bad mouth Phase One...


That might be a bit more believable if your total post count on LL was a bit more than 7 posts since you joined (in 2006) and you haven't made a post other than this thread since Nov 2006. So, it seems when you have an axe to grind, you post...otherwise you aren't a regular contributor. That pretty much puts the whole thing in context for me.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 03:49:08 PM by Schewe » Logged
vandevanterSH
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« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2008, 05:45:03 PM »
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Does Phase One charge for software upgrades if you own a Phase One back?

Steve
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teddillard
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« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2008, 06:19:33 PM »
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Quote from: vandevanterSH
Does Phase One charge for software upgrades if you own a Phase One back?

Steve

I'm pretty sure not...  (not positive about Phase, but most DB software updates are free to registered users)

Not sure on your point, either.  (didn't mean that to sound contentious)

C1Pro was originally a completely separate product for a different client base than it's DB products, of course.  And, obviously, part of the cost of the DB is the software cost and support.
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Ted Dillard
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