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Author Topic: IN A QUANDARY ABOUT MONITORS .....  (Read 10602 times)
bellimages
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« on: October 31, 2008, 09:03:28 AM »
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I've been holding off the purchase of a new computer/display for some time. I use Apple equipment at work (several MacPros, and Cinema Displays). And I have an older desktop mac with a Cinema Display at home. I love Apple gear, and want to stick with it.

My quandary comes from the fact that displays are in transition. I've been reading posts pretty carefully on the new LED powered LCD displays. There are advantages to this technology (no warm up time, lower power consumption, no color shift as the display ages). Unfortunately Apple is selling these new displays ONLY with glossy glass. I'm concerned with reflections, contrast, shadow detail, and calibration. I'm not really interested in your take on these concerns, since there is no real objective conclusions from what I've been reading.

My question is whether I should buy one of of Apple's current (florescent powered) Cinema Displays (either the 23" or the 30"), or hold off and see what they provide for us pros. Or would it be much better to spend more and purchase one by Eizo. If so, do I need to spend $3000-4000 for a 22-24 inch screen? Eizo has that size displays that range in price from $1300-$4000 Regardless of whether I purchase a display at this time, or not, I will not be buying a new Mac until the next generation chip arrive (Nehalem, core i7) .... probably around the first of the year.  I have held off this long, waiting awhile longer won't kill me.

One problem with buying a current generation display is that it may not connect via the same connectors (since Apple has gone to new Mini Display port .... abandoning the current standard DVI port). And if the new MacPros come equipped with the new mini-display port, Eizo's DVI connectors will require some type of adapter.  

I'm looking forward to hearing from you pros ..... or computer geeks. I've never felt so much turmoil over a computer/display purchase.
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Ken Rahaim
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2008, 09:52:10 AM »
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Up front, I'll say I'm using an NEC 2690WUXi-SV. Prior to that I used Lacie SuperBlue 22 CRTs and for a brief time the Apple displays. In terms of brands, I'm agnostic. I think if you're limiting yourself to brand, you may be missing out. Ever since the first wide-gamut LCDs came out at relatively affordable prices 2 years ago (NEC, Samsung, etc), I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop (ie; for Apple's to follow-up w/ a high end display). Over the past 6-9 months I've really begun to wonder what's happened to Apple in terms of their displays. It seems they're beginning to fall a bit behind. And now, these gloss covered displays come out and for me, they're very distracting. I don't have any statistics so it could be the majority of folks like the glossy displays, but my colleagues (both illustrators and photographers) roundly disapprove. I guess this is the round about way of saying you may want to consider unhitching your wagon from the Apple display horse and look elsewhere.
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Ken Rahaim
bellimages
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2008, 10:55:00 AM »
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Thanks for taking the time to post your comments. In looking at the NEC display that you purchased, it looks identical to the Eizo displays (stand is identical). Does Eizo make NEC's units?


http://www.eizo.com/products/graphics/index.asp

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product...c3-37506ddc9775
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Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 01:28:17 AM »
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Quote from: bellimages
There are advantages to this technology (no warm up time, lower power consumption, no color shift as the display ages).

Plus longer life and wider colour gamut. For these reasons, I'm going with an LED-backlit screen next. I had my eye on the Samsung XL30. Eizo might be great monitors but the price very high.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 01:29:55 AM by foto-z » Logged

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richardhagen
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 11:12:20 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Plus longer life and wider colour gamut. For these reasons, I'm going with an LED-backlit screen next. I had my eye on the Samsung XL30. Eizo might be great monitors but the price very high.

Graham,
I don't know if the NEC is  an LED-backlit unit, but I was just wondering why you've chosen the Samsung XL30 over the NEC MultiSync 3090WQXi? The NEC seems to have great specs and it's less $$ than the Samsung.

richard
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 09:12:40 AM »
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Please don't buy any monitor until you've had someone competent show you the difference between a high-end consumer monitor (e.g. Apple) and a professional monitor specifically made for color-accurate still images (e.g. Eizo).

Much like a MFDB vs. a P&S the difference in non challenging images is minimal.

Seeing them side by side on challenging images is like night and day. Smooth gradients, noise/detail/color-accuracy in the shadows, gamut on strongly saturated colors... night and day.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
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kaelaria
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 10:06:31 AM »
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Why did you feel the need to post this all over the board??

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....c=29173&hl=

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....c=29171&hl=

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....c=29172&hl=
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bellimages
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 10:12:04 AM »
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To get more a response from more people. I'm sure that a lot of people don't look at all of the forums. Did I cause any harm? It's not like the usage of electronic data is costly for anyone.

Many times, I get different points of views from people viewing in various forums (as the one that I just posted on monitor size).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 10:16:51 AM by bellimages » Logged

Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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richardhagen
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 11:07:42 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Please don't buy any monitor until you've had someone competent show you the difference between a high-end consumer monitor (e.g. Apple) and a professional monitor specifically made for color-accurate still images (e.g. Eizo).

Much like a MFDB vs. a P&S the difference in non challenging images is minimal.

Seeing them side by side on challenging images is like night and day. Smooth gradients, noise/detail/color-accuracy in the shadows, gamut on strongly saturated colors... night and day.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio


I agree with all you've posted: Smooth gradients, noise/detail/color-accuracy in the shadows, gamut on strongly saturated colors. I've seen the Nec and the Eizo. Not side by side but I have seen them on separate occasions. The Nec excelled in every way. The Eizo is a great monitor. It is simply way too overpriced. From what I've seen, on both monitors, I can't make a case for buying the Eizo over the Nec. The Eizo is not worth twice as much as the Nec. I am not comparing the Eizo to an Apple 30" monitor which is total crap. I am comparing the Eizo to the Nec 30". They are both great monitors.

rh
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The View
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 11:08:28 PM »
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Quote from: richardhagen
I agree with all you've posted: Smooth gradients, noise/detail/color-accuracy in the shadows, gamut on strongly saturated colors. I've seen the Nec and the Eizo. Not side by side but I have seen them on separate occasions. The Nec excelled in every way. The Eizo is a great monitor. It is simply way too overpriced. From what I've seen, on both monitors, I can't make a case for buying the Eizo over the Nec. The Eizo is not worth twice as much as the Nec. I am not comparing the Eizo to an Apple 30" monitor which is total crap. I am comparing the Eizo to the Nec 30". They are both great monitors.

rh

Why do you think Apple displays are garbage?

Any bad experience working with them?
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The View
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2008, 11:10:53 PM »
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Very important is even distribution of luminosity over the whole screen, and, ditto, have even color.

Eizo displays seem overpriced, but the farther up you go, the law of diminishing returns applies.


I wonder how many among you would go for an Apple 30" versus an Eizo 24".
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digitaldog
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 12:36:25 PM »
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Its very, very unlikely we'll see Apple ship a "Pro" high end display for this audience. A bigger unit? Maybe. Something that competes with Eizo or NEC, very doubtful. Its too niche a market for them. Just look at the direction they've taken with laptop displays!
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GregW
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« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 01:17:47 PM »
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Quote from: bellimages
One problem with buying a current generation display is that it may not connect via the same connectors (since Apple has gone to new Mini Display port .... abandoning the current standard DVI port). And if the new MacPros come equipped with the new mini-display port, Eizo's DVI connectors will require some type of adapter.

New graphics cards supporting DisplayPort, also support DVI on chip. It's part of the current standard. The problem is using a DisplayPort only monitor with a DVI graphics card.

The USD 30 for a Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter shouldn't be a deciding factor when discussing displays like the NEC and Samsung.
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bellimages
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« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 04:07:00 PM »
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Quote from: GregW
New graphics cards supporting DisplayPort, also support DVI on chip. It's part of the current standard. The problem is using a DisplayPort only monitor with a DVI graphics card.

The USD 30 for a Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter shouldn't be a deciding factor when discussing displays like the NEC and Samsung.


Sorry, I'm confused. Maybe you can help me out. I'm planning on purchasing the NEC 2690 or 3090.

I will either wait for an update on the MacPro .... or purchase a current model. If I purchase one of the current models, there will be no problem. On the other hand, if Apple puts a new mini display port on their MacPros, will I simply need an adapter to connect the NEC display to it?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 04:07:58 PM by bellimages » Logged

Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 09:47:57 PM »
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Quote from: bellimages
Sorry, I'm confused. Maybe you can help me out. I'm planning on purchasing the NEC 2690 or 3090.

I will either wait for an update on the MacPro .... or purchase a current model. If I purchase one of the current models, there will be no problem. On the other hand, if Apple puts a new mini display port on their MacPros, will I simply need an adapter to connect the NEC display to it?

that should work.  The DisplayPort on the MacBooks can be adapted to both DVI and VGA monitors, those adaptors should work with the new MacPro as well if they use DisplayPort.  I guess Apple may choose to provide a card with DisplayPort and DVI, since there is plenty of space (unlike the MacBooks).
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GregW
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2008, 11:20:39 AM »
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Quote from: bellimages
Sorry, I'm confused. Maybe you can help me out. I'm planning on purchasing the NEC 2690 or 3090.

I will either wait for an update on the MacPro .... or purchase a current model. If I purchase one of the current models, there will be no problem. On the other hand, if Apple puts a new mini display port on their MacPros, will I simply need an adapter to connect the NEC display to it?

Yes. DisplayPort can drive DisplayPort, DVI and VGA.
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GregW
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2008, 11:28:01 AM »
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Quote from: Wayne Fox
I guess Apple may choose to provide a card with DisplayPort and DVI, since there is plenty of space (unlike the MacBooks).

It's not just about available space. By choosing DisplayPort Apple and it's graphics suppliers will not have to pay DVI royalties. We will have to wait and see.
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bellimages
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2008, 12:04:15 PM »
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Quote from: kaelaria


I have to say that this post still ticks me off. Are you the internet "police" for Luminous Landscape?

As I said, I get varied responses by posting the same question in various forums (only 3, mind you). I'd guess that a majority of people, who visit the forums, only read a handful of them. And they come from different walks of life .... with varied knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 12:05:07 PM by bellimages » Logged

Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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"Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity."  –  Charles Mingus
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2008, 12:14:39 PM »
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Quote from: richardhagen
I agree with all you've posted: Smooth gradients, noise/detail/color-accuracy in the shadows, gamut on strongly saturated colors. I've seen the Nec and the Eizo. Not side by side but I have seen them on separate occasions. The Nec excelled in every way. The Eizo is a great monitor. It is simply way too overpriced. From what I've seen, on both monitors, I can't make a case for buying the Eizo over the Nec. The Eizo is not worth twice as much as the Nec. I am not comparing the Eizo to an Apple 30" monitor which is total crap. I am comparing the Eizo to the Nec 30". They are both great monitors.

rh

They are definitely both great monitors (especially compared to general purpose monitors like Apple).

Just one quick note: Eizo comes with a 5 year warranty which includes the requirement that the monitor be able to return to it's original speced profile during the entirety of the warranty (they ship it with a slip that shows the original profile response).

Also, their support line is actually manned by knowledgeable and eager to help people.

Peace of mind aint cheap :-).

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2008, 03:47:58 PM »
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Quote from: bellimages
Sorry, I'm confused. Maybe you can help me out. I'm planning on purchasing the NEC 2690 or 3090.

I will either wait for an update on the MacPro .... or purchase a current model. If I purchase one of the current models, there will be no problem. On the other hand, if Apple puts a new mini display port on their MacPros, will I simply need an adapter to connect the NEC display to it?


With appropriate adapters, you should be able to drive any recent monitor with a DisplayPort output.   However, if you're planning on using SpectraView to calibrate the NEC monitors, be aware that it currently does not work with Apple MacBooks and MacBook Pros that use the DisplayPort Connector: NEC SpectraView

-- D
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