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Author Topic: Kodak SLR/c Canon mount 14mp DSLR  (Read 6293 times)
BJL
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« on: March 18, 2004, 11:28:22 AM »
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I am (pleasantly) surprised! I had heard from many voices that Canon killed the EOS mount line of DCS Pro cameras by refusing to collaborate with Kodak once they had established their own DSLR's. But clearly Canon is a partner in this to some extent, since Nikon uses and talks about Canon EOS lens mounts and Canon's E-TTL flash metering.
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Scott_H
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2004, 11:45:28 AM »
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I looks like it is based on a different slr chassis too, which might address some of the ergonomic concerns.
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Shivz
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2004, 04:14:30 PM »
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Thanks Quentin, Basically a 14mp, full size 35mm chip for the price of 1D-II.  Not too bad.  I think an updated 1DS is probably due soon as well. Cheers, S
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Kodak Pro SLR/n & c
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2004, 02:29:15 AM »
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Just got through reading Michael's review and Jon Roemer's message and sample pics to him. Those samples back up others I've seen from the supposedly new & improved 14n.

I wouldn't think of buying that thing even if you offered it to me for $10.00. Well, okay, maybe for $10.00, but nothing more! Just not impressed.

If you need a very tightly controlled environment to use it with and nothing above 400 ISO, then forget it! I'll keep my D1X for another year it looks like. It's much more versatile and reliable. Lower megapixel count, but it still gets the jobs done nicely.

Even if a D2X comes out or simply announced in a few months, I'll have to wait until there's enough to trickle down to the rest of us. The big kahuna photogs like Jay Maisel, Joe McNally, and Time, Nat Geo type photogs will always get first dibs on the new stuff. Which means I'd be waiting till early next year probably.

Of course, if a D200(?)comes out to replace the D100 and fills the niche between the D70 and the Pro bodies, I would consider that. I hope it would have a vertical grip & shutter release like the D100 did. At least as an option.
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2004, 06:40:43 PM »
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Erik,

I have a Kodak DCS Pro Back, which also has no AA filter, and which definately does not display this sort of fringing.

In my experience an AA filter simply reduces ultimate definition, and simultaniously reduces the possability of moire, but does not impact on either CA or birefringance.

The SLR/n does not use microlenses. This may be part of the problem.

Michael
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Erik M
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2004, 05:57:59 PM »
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Just for the heck of it, here's a 14N/1Ds comparison that's just been posted.

http://www.alexandertufte.com/test/
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John Hill
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2004, 06:48:35 PM »
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I believe you are mis-reading the specs.  On the SLR/n and the SLR/c the low ISO's are achieved in "longer" mode.  Both cameras have this feature.   It is quite a capability, producing very smooth noise free images at long shutter speeds.

The imaging features of the cameras are essentially the same, except the SLR/c has a faster sync speed and different meetinging and focusing technologies as a result of different bodies.  I believe the imaging internals are very much alike.

John
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Paul Caldwell
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2004, 01:26:36 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Paul, sorry to hear your report.

I was surprised by the comment on waiting for Kodak to clean the camera.  Kodak has always led the way in regards to cleaning by allowing the user to clean it.  The 14n is no exception.  There are many different solutions out there, but I would start with the sensor swab and eclipse fluid.  You will never get all the dust out but the vast majority of it.  This should cover the vast majority of issues, but if you have a stubbon spot, then sure it would have to go back to Kodak and I agree that having to wait 2 months is a bit long.

I almost made a 14n decision way back when the camera 1st came out, but held off.  From the later firmware versions that Kodak released they did fix alot of the issues but I agee with you that the camera still has issues.  

By making the base ISO 160 on the new slr/n and c, it pretty clear that Kodak couldn't get the lower settings to really work without the extra features they brought out for these two models.  

Hope that Kodak comes through for you.

Paul[/font]
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Quentin
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2004, 05:37:01 AM »
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This might shake things up a bit...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...cid=7-6453-6828

Kodak are of course retunring to their old days when they made DSLRs in both Nikon and Canon mount.

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
Shivz
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2004, 11:44:03 AM »
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I asked this question in the 'Camera' forum as well.  What is Kodak's reputation on hi-end cameras?   Also what do you think the MSRP is going to be on this baby? Thanks, S
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Quentin
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2004, 12:10:53 PM »
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Quote
I asked this question in the 'Camera' forum as well. What is Kodak's reputation on hi-end cameras? Also what do you think the MSRP is going to be on this baby? Thanks, S
I understand the price of the Nikon and Canon mount cameras will be the same.

Kodak has an excellent reputation in high end cameras. Back before 1998, they released DSLRS, which at the time cost a fortune, in both Canon and Nikon mounts. Kodak pioneered the DSLR in pro use, but were caught out by the introduction of the Nikon D1, which changed the whole pricing philosophy of DSLRs and really started the current trend towards more affordable cameras.

There may be some potential advantages to the Sigma-based SLR/c body, namely higher flash sync speed, and a smaller front bulge, so you can use shift lenses (guessing on this latter point).

Finally, I understand that both the Nikon and Canon line bodies will benefit from new firmware that will tackle the edge hue shift issue that has dogged the release of the SLR/n in a new and more sophisitcated way, using "Adaptive" correction. This from Jay Kelbey of Kodak.

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
Quentin
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2004, 04:42:05 PM »
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Quote
Thanks Quentin, Basically a 14mp, full size 35mm chip for the price of 1D-II. Not too bad. I think an updated 1DS is probably due soon as well. Cheers, S
Yeah, but I'm guessing an updated 1Ds won't be released with a Nikon mount version as well :laugh:

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
Erik M
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2004, 11:37:03 AM »
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ACR 2.1 removes the magenta fringing seen in the samples sent to Michael. Furthermore, using the selective color tool in Photoshop and reducing the magenta slider when the magental color is chosen pretty much removes it as well. Furthermore, I think it's pretty much common knowledge that this fringing is the result of no AA filter. So I really don't understand why there is the expectation among anyone that this fringing would not occur, when it's quite clear that the new camera has no AA filter.
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Quentin
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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2004, 03:29:00 PM »
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I've decided not to upgrade my 14n to the new sensor. The circumstances in which there is purple fringing in the picture of the keys from Jon Roemer, would give rise to no fringing at all with the 14n, or very little magenta fringing.

I've adapted to the problems such as they are with my 14n, and can get great results with it (subject to an important issue I have with Kodak concerning the metering, which I won't go in to here). Instead of spending money on an upgrade, I'd prefer to use the funds towards a Fuji S3 or maybe a new lens.

Or maybe a deposit on a new Canon...

Quentin
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Quentin Bargate, ARPS, Author, photographer entrepreneur and senior partner of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2013
Erik M
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2004, 11:47:12 AM »
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Michael,

Thanks for the explanation.

Erik
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slr/c
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2004, 04:16:54 PM »
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What is most intesting to on the slr/c is the lowest ISO setting, of 6, yes 6.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0403/04031802...kslrc.asp#press

On the slr/n it's 160.  

That tells me that something is very different in either the chip, or DSP or both to allow a ISO of 6.  

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Macleod
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2004, 12:33:59 PM »
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[font color=\'#000000\']Kodak...............................dont do it.......let me save you the bother.

Hi,

I am writing to tell you that your review of the 14n was too kind, I bought one of those donkeys when it came out, wished I had read your review, thankfully I did read the review for the new super improved upgarde which means I will not be buying one.

I am in talks with Kodak at the moment as I complained about the 14n on the first week of arrival. The local dealer told me that this would be the only camera I would need as valuable upgrades would be made available. They will not or have not replied to date.

Actually there are more problems than just the camera, there is the cleaning issue, no service centre here, takes 2 months to get it cleaned.........wow.......I know

Well the camera is back...clean....and put on a back shelf to gather dust....perhaps it will become an antique of the biggest digital camera scam and then be worth something....as it is I cant even sell it unless the buyer knows exactly what they are getting into. I believe in Karma you see, I wish Kodak were the same as me, but at the moment it seems as if money were their only concern, shame really.

I would just like to point one more thing out, in your review you talked about the 14n and likened it to a car...shame on car companies because they recall cars that are faulty, Kodak on the other hand leaves all the rubbish out there, produces a better model and then expects us to pay to get the rubbish upgraded.

Upset, you bet, and I challenge any photographer out there to prove me wrong, and hats of to all those boys and girls out there that think that shooting on ISO 80 at nothing shorter than 1 sec is going to get them through.

As a friend said to me recently after testing the 14n ( photographer who has won the UK Phtographic Advertising awards 3 times )....he laughed and said he got a better result from his Nikon 1D.

Feel free to post any of this.

Best Regards and many Thanks for your work in educating us that do not have the time to do these tests

Paul Macleod[/font]
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