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Author Topic: NEC LCD2690WUXi2-bk vs. NEC LCD3090WQXi-bk  (Read 19598 times)
bellimages
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« on: November 07, 2008, 08:32:02 AM »
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I have narrowed my choice of monitor to one of these two. The 2690WUXi2 is a new generation product. The 3090WQXi is not. I'm leaning to a 30" screen, but will not get the new color gamet offered by the new 2690. Is that a big deal?
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Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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WillH
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2008, 09:05:50 AM »
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Quote from: bellimages
I have narrowed my choice of monitor to one of these two. The 2690WUXi2 is a new generation product. The 3090WQXi is not. I'm leaning to a 30" screen, but will not get the new color gamet offered by the new 2690. Is that a big deal?

The color gamut of the LCD2690 is improved in the LCD2690WUXi2 so it now *matches* that of the LCD3090WQXi.
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Will Hollingworth
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walter.sk
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2008, 09:19:39 AM »
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Quote from: WillH
The color gamut of the LCD2690 is improved in the LCD2690WUXi2 so it now *matches* that of the LCD3090WQXi.
The specs for the new 2690 match the 3090's in most respects.  I was going to order the 2690, and went into B&H to look at it.  Unfortunately for my pocketbook it was right next to the 3090.  The difference in size, and the higher resolution of the 3090 zapped my inhibitory powers.  I just ordered the 3090.
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richardhagen
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« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 08:59:17 AM »
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Quote from: walter.sk
The specs for the new 2690 match the 3090's in most respects.  I was going to order the 2690, and went into B&H to look at it.  Unfortunately for my pocketbook it was right next to the 3090.  The difference in size, and the higher resolution of the 3090 zapped my inhibitory powers.  I just ordered the 3090.

Congrats on your choice of monitor! As soon as apple ship the dual dvi cable, i will be getting a 3090 too.

rh
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mbalensiefer
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 07:52:51 AM »
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Richard, have you seen this (your new 3090) compared with the 30" CinemaDisplay? Would you say it's worth the $$ for the upgrade? Thanks!

Michael
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walter.sk
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 10:34:01 AM »
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Quote from: richardhagen
Congrats on your choice of monitor! As soon as apple ship the dual dvi cable, i will be getting a 3090 too.

rh

My 3090 came today.  There were two surprises that came with it:

1)  I realized that I have anxiety about giving up the monitor I have been using, loving and trusting over the past 7 years;

2) The Limited Warranty statement in the box states that there is a 3-year parts/labor warranty.  I quickly went back to NEC's website, where the same model (30090WQXi) boasts a 4-year warranty!

Do you think that there is a change in the warranty, or that the warranty statement that came with the monitor is for the Multisync 90 line in general and that the 3090 really is warrantied for 4 years?  There is no mention in the warranty statement of any model number or monitor size.
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richardhagen
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 10:57:18 AM »
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Michael
I own a 30" apple cinema display, I've had it for 2 years and I've seen the current 24" cinema display. I don't like my 30" display color renditions and it's bloody hard to calibrate. The color is uneven from corner to corner. I don't like the new cinema displays either, because I don't like the glossy screens although I think there is a better more even color rendition from corner to corner, albeit not perfect. The Nec 30" is truly a professional monitor definitely on par with the Eizo 30" monitor - maybe even better than the Eizo. I definitely think it's work the extra $$.

Walter,
I understand that when you get used to a piece of equipment that's served you well, it's hard to give it up. I've had instances like that where I've had equipment that I just hated to part with but had to.

I've read about the 4 year warranty and took it for granted. When it's in writing, it's hard to dispute.  I don't know much more than what I've read.

rh
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 11:04:23 AM by richardhagen » Logged
mbalensiefer
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2008, 11:05:25 AM »
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Thanks, Richard.

 3090--What price are you picking it up at?

Michael
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richardhagen
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2008, 01:49:16 PM »
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Quote from: mbalensiefer
Thanks, Richard.

 3090--What price are you picking it up at?

Michael

Unless I could get it significantly cheaper elsewhere, I'll probably buy it at B&H for $2,154.95. So far, I've found them to be reliable. I checked B&H last week and they were out of stock. This week it's back in stock. I think it's a very popular monitor.

rh
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WillH
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 09:10:39 AM »
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Quote from: walter.sk
2) The Limited Warranty statement in the box states that there is a 3-year parts/labor warranty.  I quickly went back to NEC's website, where the same model (30090WQXi) boasts a 4-year warranty!

Do you think that there is a change in the warranty, or that the warranty statement that came with the monitor is for the Multisync 90 line in general and that the 3090 really is warrantied for 4 years?  There is no mention in the warranty statement of any model number or monitor size.

The warranty is 4 years not 3. I'm checking now why the warranty card says 3 years, but it looks like a production mistake.
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Will Hollingworth
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walter.sk
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 11:12:12 AM »
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Well, after 2 days of frustration with my new NEC 3090, which wouldn't recognize a DVI-D signal at the full resolution, I finally downloaded a newer nVidia driver and everything works.

I am so glad I sprung for the larger size.  It is wonderful to view and work on my photographs at about 20" wide and still have room for my favorite pallets (I suppose I should call them "panels") in CS4.

I don't have the SpectraViewII software yet, but I profiled the monitor with my iOne colorimeter and software.  I had to set the luminosity at 100 rather than the recommended 120, and there still is a bit of over-brightness that I won't correct, as I'm going to get the SpectraView software. The color is better than it was on my now defunct Mitsubishi CRT (2061), and after a few hours of playing with my pictures I have no eyestrain.

The surface is almost like a micro-luster in texture, but after a few minutes it ceased to be a factor for me.  I much prefer this to either the soft monitor surfaces or the glossy glass now making the rounds. While I haven't tested the uniformity of brightness and color in a rigorous way, the impression is of stunning uniformity.  While I was anxious over giving up the old monitor, I'm ready to kick it downstairs and all the way to the garbage heap now.

It looks as if this is a monitor I can love.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 11:14:03 AM by walter.sk » Logged
richardhagen
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 11:51:34 AM »
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Quote from: walter.sk
Well, after 2 days of frustration with my new NEC 3090, which wouldn't recognize a DVI-D signal at the full resolution, I finally downloaded a newer nVidia driver and everything works.

I am so glad I sprung for the larger size.  It is wonderful to view and work on my photographs at about 20" wide and still have room for my favorite pallets (I suppose I should call them "panels") in CS4.

I don't have the SpectraViewII software yet, but I profiled the monitor with my iOne colorimeter and software.  I had to set the luminosity at 100 rather than the recommended 120, and there still is a bit of over-brightness that I won't correct, as I'm going to get the SpectraView software. The color is better than it was on my now defunct Mitsubishi CRT (2061), and after a few hours of playing with my pictures I have no eyestrain.

The surface is almost like a micro-luster in texture, but after a few minutes it ceased to be a factor for me.  I much prefer this to either the soft monitor surfaces or the glossy glass now making the rounds. While I haven't tested the uniformity of brightness and color in a rigorous way, the impression is of stunning uniformity.  While I was anxious over giving up the old monitor, I'm ready to kick it downstairs and all the way to the garbage heap now.

It looks as if this is a monitor I can love.

I am really happy to hear your good news re: the 3090. It's a great monitor. I'm also happy to hear that you got over getting rid of your old monitor.

Are you going to get the screen shade?

rh
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msbc
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 06:23:15 PM »
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I'm at exactly the same point - deciding between the 2690 and 3090. Interestingly www.prad.de review gave the 2690 a 'Very Good' rating while only a 'Good' for the 3090. In particular there is some info that reducing the luminance below 140 has a negative effect on the contrast of the 3090 - refer here http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2008...art9.html#Image

Any comments on this from owners?
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richardhagen
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 07:05:01 PM »
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Quote from: msbc
I'm at exactly the same point - deciding between the 2690 and 3090. Interestingly www.prad.de review gave the 2690 a 'Very Good' rating while only a 'Good' for the 3090. In particular there is some info that reducing the luminance below 140 has a negative effect on the contrast of the 3090 - refer here http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2008...art9.html#Image

Any comments on this from owners?

I'm not an owner yet but will be as soon as Apple ship their dual-dvi cable and I've heard kudos about this particular monitor from two owners.

Apparently, the Nec monitors that Europeans get are different than the ones we get, therefore, Americans should take this article with a grain of salt. YIKES! How could anyone make any judgment or sense out of this report if to begin with, the darn monitor was not properly calibrated?! This is a snippet from the article:

[blockquote]Unfortunately, proper hardware calibration is not possible with the European model. Here, NEC will later introduce an expensive SpectraView version, which is already in planning. The question remains to be answered why the functions of the LCD3090WQXi were truncated and who European customers have to pay more than US users for hardware calibration. In addition, NEC is missing the opportunity to make itself look considerably more positive than the Eizo SX3031W.
[/blockquote]

What's also very interesting is that this person compares the Nec monitor to the Eizo 30" counterpart. Keep in mind that the Eizo is about $3K more! He nevertheless says:

[blockquote]If we compare the NEC LCD3090WQXi with its rival, the Eizo SX3031W, the question must be asked who really offers the more complete package. NEC’s 30-inch model certainly performs better with its successful UGRA certification, more extensive setting options and fanless design.

In some other points such as subjective image quality, on the other hand, the Eizo with its S-PVA panel is ahead, if even by just a little. With both models, the very limited connection options are a source of annoyance. Even if these are less important for the actual target group of all-round use, a few additional multimedia connections would have been a decisive argument for purchasing either the NEC or Eizo model.
[/blockquote]

Personally, after seeing the Nec in action and comparing the Nec to the Eizo, it's a no-brainer contest: the Nec wins hands down. Keep in mind that the Eizo is considered the Rolls Royce of monitors. . . .

One other point: I very quickly read this article and didn't mention of the 2690 in the same review. Therefore one has to assume that each monitor was treated differently under different experimental circumstances. If the 3090 was in the same exact experiment as the 2690, it might have received the same results. We don't know. . . .the bottom line is this the review and the data are flawed given the fact that Europeans get different hardware than Americans, and that the monitor was not calibrated properly.

rh
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 07:30:52 PM by richardhagen » Logged
msbc
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 10:59:49 PM »
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Richard,

You seem to be looking for ways to discredit the review. What I'm more interested in is the following statement's:

[blockquote]After successful calibration to a brightness value of 140 cd/m˛, on the other hand, the contrast is just 476:1. This comparatively low contrast is caused by the brightness regulation on the NEC 3090WQXi. With especially low brightness values – in this case, 140 cd/m˛ - the luminance is no longer reduced via the backlight, but instead "artificially" via image control. This means that a part of the contrast is lost.
[/blockquote]
And:

[blockquote]Before measuring the minimum brightness of the NEC model, we expected a result that was inferior to that of the Eizo SX3031W, which demonstrates a pleasantly low maximum brightness. In fact, we discovered what was an even better result at first glance at just 60 cd/m˛. However, the low brightness comes at the cost of a strong decrease in contrast. At 60 cd/m˛, which is achieved with 0 percent brightness, the contrast ratio is just a flabby 199:1.
[/blockquote]
So, the monitor was calibrated and contrast was lost as the luminance value got lower.

I'd like to know if 3090 users are seeing this as a problem - or maybe everyone is running them at 140+?
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bellimages
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 08:32:37 AM »
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Quote from: richardhagen
Congrats on your choice of monitor! As soon as apple ship the dual dvi cable, i will be getting a 3090 too.

rh


Dual DVI cable?  Aren't these already available for purchase? If so, why are you waiting to order a 3090?

MY QUESTION IS THIS ... Since Apple is replacing the DVI cable with a Mini-Display cable, how will that affect my ability to connect a 3090 to a new Apple computer? And when might I expect NEC to replace their cable with this newer technology?
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Jan Bell, Owner/Photographer, Bell Images
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"Making the simple complicated is commonplace, Making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity."  –  Charles Mingus
digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2008, 08:39:19 AM »
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Quote from: msbc
[blockquote]After successful calibration to a brightness value of 140 cd/m˛, on the other hand, the contrast is just 476:1. This comparatively low contrast is caused by the brightness regulation on the NEC 3090WQXi. With especially low brightness values – in this case, 140 cd/m˛ - the luminance is no longer reduced via the backlight, but instead "artificially" via image control. This means that a part of the contrast is lost.
[/blockquote]


I'd like to know if 3090 users are seeing this as a problem - or maybe everyone is running them at 140+?


There's a bit of a disconnect between hitting a contrast ration and a set cd/m2. Which is more important? First off, 140cd/m2 from the NEC out of the box is hard to nail, its such a bright unit that I'd personally not even start the process at less than 150 cd/m2.

Then there's the disconnect with the contrast ratio. I've yet to see the contrast ratio exactly requested based on a lower end luminesce. But we want the luminance target hit squarely at what is requested. As to 476:1 being low, well these guys apparently don't have a clue about soft proofing (something must of us here require). That's far higher than any print you can produce. We need LOWER contrast ratio's, not higher. Otherwise the luminance you set for ideal screen to proof matching is only going to go so far and then you attempt to simulate the dynamic range using an ICC printer profile (simulate paper white/ink black) and the entire display goes ugly muddy because it would be far better to produce the lower contrast ration physically in the unit.

Hit luminance first. Then work on dynamic range. Someday maybe we'll get the values on the money but its quite normal in my experience to see that I've hit target luminance but not exactly target contrast ratio on the 2490/2690 and 3090. No biggie really.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2008, 09:16:46 AM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
There's a bit of a disconnect between hitting a contrast ration and a set cd/m2. Which is more important? First off, 140cd/m2 from the NEC out of the box is hard to nail, its such a bright unit that I'd personally not even start the process at less than 150 cd/m2...

Hit luminance first. Then work on dynamic range. Someday maybe we'll get the values on the money but its quite normal in my experience to see that I've hit target luminance but not exactly target contrast ratio on the 2490/2690 and 3090. No biggie really.
Having got my 3090 the other day, and coming to LCD's fresh from my old Mitsubishi 2060u, I have much confusion as to the steps toward calibration/profiling.  I was very comfortable with the EyeOne-generated profiles through the HP APS profiling software, but I don't know where to start with the 3090.  My SpectraViewII software is on the way, but in the meantime I've tried to profile it with the APS profilier.  I made several profiles at successively lower luminance targets, starting with 140 and dropping eventually to 95!  The display now looks pretty much the way my CRT did but with more shadow detail than my prints, and with more saturated reds than I like.  I have several questions about steps to take:

1)  I assume that I turn off all "automatic" features of the monitor, such as auto brightness level, etc?

2) Should I maintain the Uniformity setting, or turn it off?  It does a nice job of reducing the luminance, too.  

3)  When setting the R, G and B values, the NEC menu gives the choice of 5 presets plus sRGB.  Does it matter where I start from with these?  (I know that starting with the sRGB is out because it makes adjustment impossible, but what about the others?)

4)  Should I set the monitor to its native state before starting to profile, or leave it at the settings determined by the current profile?

5)  Should I really set the  luminance target at 150?

6)  Unrelated to profiling, but perhaps you could answer:  How do I check for dead, stuck or partially stuck pixels?  I made full-screen tiffs at 2560x1600@101ppi in white, black, red, green and blue, but could not see any evidence of pixel mortality.

I print with the Z3100ps, and have been fairly happy with most of the APS-generated paper profiles, and there have been few surprises in terms of color and tone when the prints emerge, using my old CRT.

For somebody who started out by just wanting a computer, monitor and printer that would simply allow me to work on my photographs, it has become a long, expensive and intellectually challenging road, but I really would like to tame this monitor and get back to work.  
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 09:19:49 AM by walter.sk » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2008, 09:23:54 AM »
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Quote from: walter.sk
I was very comfortable with the EyeOne-generated profiles through the HP APS profiling software, but I don't know where to start with the 3090.  My SpectraViewII software is on the way, but in the meantime I've tried to profile it with the APS profilier.

Your life will get easier and your calibration will get much better once you get the SpectraView software.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2008, 09:36:38 AM »
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Quote from: bellimages
Dual DVI cable?  Aren't these already available for purchase? If so, why are you waiting to order a 3090?

MY QUESTION IS THIS ... Since Apple is replacing the DVI cable with a Mini-Display cable, how will that affect my ability to connect a 3090 to a new Apple computer? And when might I expect NEC to replace their cable with this newer technology?

I've just bought a couple of new MacBookPros and the dual-link dvi cables are on backorder for 4 - 5 weeks. I will be getting the 3090 as soon as this cable is available. They said it will be available around Xmas.

rh
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