Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Epson 4880 or 3800  (Read 9908 times)
davewolfs
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2008, 11:45:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: vandevanterSH
"Also, I never turn my printer off. I believe that is what pretty much everyone recommends and I have yet to have a problem with it (I've not had the printer 1 whole year yet) and my understanding is that is uses very little power so I'm not sure what anyone is gaining by turning it off when it is not in use."
*********
(snip)
The frequency of this special cleaning mode is controlled by the printer itself. It will be done occasionally even if the printer is left on; however, it is not done frequently enough if the printer is simply left idling while powered on and not being used. Hence, the Epson engineer's recommendation is to turn the printer off when the time between two successive print runs is longer than a day.
(Taken from Eric Chan's FAQs)

Steve

Do any companies out there offer sample printed images on both matte and luster paper?  I'm sure that would help out a lot.
Logged
free1000
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 407


WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 02:11:33 AM »
ReplyReply

I have the 3800 and have had a 4000, and done tests of the 4880.

At the moment I'm finding that the 3800 has some unexpected advantages that counterbalance the lack of roll paper.

1) You can feed thick media through the front loading slot. I've managed to put some quite unconventional media through, saving me money.

2) As said, the ability to print small sheets is great, as I print 5"x7" promos, and this printer does these well.

3) Sheet paper feeding so far has been very reliable.

4) Easy switching from matt to gloss media is really useful.


In terms of print quality I can't see any real difference between the 3800 and 4800.   Upgrading from a 2400 was essentially free.  When I took into account rebates, the price I got on Ebay for the 2400 and the extra ink that comes with the 3800 I think the upgrade only cost me about 100. (But its a business purchase so I can claim VAT sales tax back, it would be more expensive if one had to pay the VAT).

I'm very happy with this printer.

Logged

@foliobook
Foliobook professional photography folio for iPad
www.foliobook.mobi
colorguy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6


« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2008, 07:02:51 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: davewolfs
Do any companies out there offer sample printed images on both matte and luster paper?  I'm sure that would help out a lot.


We do offer the printing of sample images on the Epson 7880, Canon iPF6100, and the Z3100.

Sorry, I don't have the 3800 in our demo facility.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 07:48:53 PM by colorguy » Logged

Bob
colorHQ.com
Color Management Solutions
guerillary
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


WWW
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2008, 03:28:29 AM »
ReplyReply

The biggest print quality issue I have with the 3800 is the infamous "pizza wheel marks" caused by the ejection rollers spoked wheels.  Any pro model above the 3800 uses a vacuum system instead of wheels.  Eric Chan's FAQ shows a workaround to eliminate the marks at the expense of borderless printing.  Unfortunately, the process is difficult to execute well and is a hack - no offense to how awesome he and his FAQ is though.

My opinion is if the 3800 didn't create these marks, it would be the most phenomenal deal for a pro printer on the market; but amidst them it's the best (and most expensive) prosumer printer on the market.  I can only imagine how embarrassing it must be for an artist to get called out on these marks by a gallery or customer.  Probably just as embarrassing as getting an Exhibition Fiber print returned for developing micro cracks over a short period of time.

I know I sound critical but it's such a shame to shortfall incredible technology with ignorant design flaws.  Epson has the best printers in terms of value and they've really done wonders for the photo market, but jeez... fix the stupid issues!
Logged

Ryan Thompson
www.giantsteps.us
k bennett
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1492


WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2008, 10:13:07 AM »
ReplyReply

I've had the 3800 for just over a year. It gets very occasional use, maybe once or twice a month. I've never seen the pizza wheel marks (and I do know what to look for -- I had constant problems with these marks on my 1200 Photo printer.) I've had to do a nozzle clean twice in 14 months, and each time a single cleaning cycle did the trick.

Recalling my darkroom days, I'm still amazed every time I go downstairs and print a beautiful 16x20 with very little effort.
Logged

Equipment: a camera and some lenses.
Nelson Harris
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2008, 12:55:59 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: davewolfs
Thanks for the insight, anyone have any comments on the Canons?

I read most of the posts and it sounds like you should be armed for a decision.  btw: Canons have a lot of negative press on their user interface to the driver.  Canon is the gorilla for DLSRs, Epson is it for printers.  Epson was my first printer (on that old 8086) not counting the thermal of the TI700....whoops flashback..... and an Epson 3800 now turns out to be my best printer ever.

I had a REALLY difficult time when considering between the 3800 and the 4880 because using the best price from B&H including shipping after rebates the price difference was only $110.oo  ....but I still chose the 3800 for all the same reasons you see above.  I print 3 - 5 a week and leave it on connected to the network.  btw: If using network be sure to download the new drivers and don't install the software from the CD... there's some SNMP issues with the CD version.

I seriously doubt you'll find yourself second guessing the decision of the 3800 over the 4880 even if you would double your pound per dollar ratio for only $110.oo     I doubt there are many casual users wanting to have a ~100lb printer and be forced to load rolls of paper, cross cut their pictures and swap cartridges when changing media?  not me anyway.

pull that trigger!  I hope you enjoy it as much as I am!

->N
Logged
Tklimek
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 286


« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2008, 11:09:11 AM »
ReplyReply

All...

I also just checked B&H (12/1/08) and found this pricing:

B&H
Epson 4880 ($480 rebate)
$1664 - 480 = $1184
You pay for shipping

Epson 3800
$1104
Free shipping

So for about $80 more (plus shipping) you can have the 4880 vs. the 3800.

I would go so far as to say that really takes "cost" out of the equation for deciding which of these two FABULOUS printers to get.

For myself, the 4880 has:
Vivid Magenta inkset
Ability to use  roll paper
More ink comes with the printer (more ink is used in startup though)
Ink repelling coating to (theoretically) provide less clogging
Ability to use 220ml ink carts

LOL!  Sounds like you can't miss with either of the two printers.  Obviously the 4880 fairly large printer, so that consideration must be made.

What a fun problem to have!

Best of luck...

Todd in Chicago



Quote from: Nelson Harris
I read most of the posts and it sounds like you should be armed for a decision.  btw: Canons have a lot of negative press on their user interface to the driver.  Canon is the gorilla for DLSRs, Epson is it for printers.  Epson was my first printer (on that old 8086) not counting the thermal of the TI700....whoops flashback..... and an Epson 3800 now turns out to be my best printer ever.

I had a REALLY difficult time when considering between the 3800 and the 4880 because using the best price from B&H including shipping after rebates the price difference was only $110.oo  ....but I still chose the 3800 for all the same reasons you see above.  I print 3 - 5 a week and leave it on connected to the network.  btw: If using network be sure to download the new drivers and don't install the software from the CD... there's some SNMP issues with the CD version.

I seriously doubt you'll find yourself second guessing the decision of the 3800 over the 4880 even if you would double your pound per dollar ratio for only $110.oo     I doubt there are many casual users wanting to have a ~100lb printer and be forced to load rolls of paper, cross cut their pictures and swap cartridges when changing media?  not me anyway.

pull that trigger!  I hope you enjoy it as much as I am!

->N
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 11:09:42 AM by Tklimek » Logged
DougMorgan
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 144


WWW
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2008, 12:15:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John Schweikert
Do some more research. A friend in town bought the 4800 last year and loves it. BUT, it did only come with starter cartridges of about 30ml each to get the printer charged and start using. He then had to buy over $600 of ink in a short time to get up to full production. That is how Epson shipped it. If the same is true for the 4880, then that should be factored into the cost. Can anyone with a 4880 verify?

The 3800 does come with a full set of 9 - 80ml cartridges. That's about $450+ of ink included.


The 4880 as well as the 4800, and 4000 before it all ship with 110 ml cartridges (so does the 7880 and 9880).   AFAIK there's never been an epson starter cartridge.  Somewhat more than half the cart is left after charging/purging.   The matte black is not included but the kit to switch blacks is.    For the amount of printing the original poster describes the ink included with the printer will last a very long time, especially the darker colors.   I use 1.5ml/foot as a rough guideline when calculating costs.

For the comment about the 3800 being from 2006 I think this is completely irrelevant.   The 4880 is virtually identical mechanically to the 4800 and the 4000 and the small changes are incremental.   Take the badges off and it's nearly impossible to tell them apart.   But I would take this as ---> If it ain't broke don't fix it.   The only real changes are the printhead, inkset, and OS software between the 4xxx models.

For the choice between the 3800 and 4880 I think it depends on how you envision using it in the future.  Personally I haven't noticed a real-world difference with the VM ink and think it's a red herring to encourage upgrading.   The three big differences I see are 1) roll paper,  2) cost of black swaps, and 3) expected lifespan.    If the usage will remain relatively low and you have no need for roll media then you might be better off with the 3800 and the relatively inexpensive switches between matte and gloss blacks.   If there is a plan or hope to ramp up printing in the near future, particularly for professional printing you might be best served with the 4880.     If occasional experimenting and personal printing are the only planned usage then the 3800 might be the more economical choice in the long run.  

For the ink switching I'll make a blatant generalization and say that most people seem to go through a stage where they try many different types of papers and then settle on a few that they prefer and will use a single paper for almost all of the finished photo prints.    I'll go further out on a limb and say that most people's preference will boil down to gloss or matte and not a lot of both.   Different story if you are printing professionally of course, but even then it's a pain in the butt to deal with more than 3 or 4 types of media.   As a photographer that does my own printing I use 2 papers and one canvas almost exclusively.

Personally I have a 4880 that replaced a 4000, gloss ink only.   I have a 9880 on matte ink only.   I've never switched blacks in either printer.  The epson printers are extremely well built, a proven design, and can be expected to run for several years printing all day long.    The 4000 printed the equivalent of 18,000 8x10's over almost 4 years without a service call.    It is big and bulky though and if you intend to switch back and forth between black inks frequently the 3800 could be much cheaper in the long run.   Though I use Canon equipment for photography the reliability and support problems with the ipf scared me off.  I don't think HP has a model in this league.

Take all of the above for what it's worth, YMMV.

Good luck and happy printing!
Doug
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 12:47:54 PM by DougMorgan » Logged
Tklimek
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 286


« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »
ReplyReply

Doug...

Your points are well stated (I cannot comment on the HP or Canon products).

My 4880 also came with 110ml carts; which equate to roughly $656 worth of ink.

Like I said....this actually is a fun problem to have; deciding on the 3800 vs. 4880; I agonized over this very same decision myself in March of this year.  Epson had a roll paper offer (buy 2 get one free) which also played into my decision.

Once I got the 4880, I never once thought I should have gotten the 3800 instead because the 4880 rocks (as does the 3800).  I also had to buy a piece of furniture to hold the 4880, but would have had to do the same for the 3800 anyway (in my case).

I really do agree with your comments regarding the ink switching.

As far as not making that many prints, if you buy roll paper, why not simply make sure you make a print every other week?  Keeps your printer from clogging up, creates some nice small prints for testing and potentially giving away or selling.  I have a roll of 10 inch Premium Luster specifically for this task.

Have fun, shoot well, and make really cool prints!

Todd in Chicago  



Quote from: DougMorgan
The 4880 as well as the 4800, and 4000 before it all ship with 110 ml cartridges (so does the 7880 and 9880).   AFAIK there's never been an epson starter cartridge.  Somewhat more than half the cart is left after charging/purging.   The matte black is not included but the kit to switch blacks is.    For the amount of printing the original poster describes the ink included with the printer will last a very long time, especially the darker colors.   I use 1.5ml/foot as a rough guideline when calculating costs.

For the comment about the 3800 being from 2006 I think this is completely irrelevant.   The 4880 is virtually identical mechanically to the 4800 and the 4000 and the small changes are incremental.   Take the badges off and it's nearly impossible to tell them apart.   But I would take this as ---> If it ain't broke don't fix it.   The only real changes are the printhead, inkset, and OS software between the 4xxx models.

For the choice between the 3800 and 4880 I think it depends on how you envision using it in the future.  Personally I haven't noticed a real-world difference with the VM ink and think it's a red herring to encourage upgrading.   The three big differences I see are 1) roll paper,  2) cost of black swaps, and 3) expected lifespan.    If the usage will remain relatively low and you have no need for roll media then you might be better off with the 3800 and the relatively inexpensive switches between matte and gloss blacks.   If there is a plan or hope to ramp up printing in the near future, particularly for professional printing you might be best served with the 4880.     If occasional experimenting and personal printing are the only planned usage then the 3800 might be the more economical choice in the long run.  

For the ink switching I'll make a blatant generalization and say that most people seem to go through a stage where they try many different types of papers and then settle on a few that they prefer and will use a single paper for almost all of the finished photo prints.    I'll go further out on a limb and say that most people's preference will boil down to gloss or matte and not a lot of both.   Different story if you are printing professionally of course, but even then it's a pain in the butt to deal with more than 3 or 4 types of media.   As a photographer that does my own printing I use 2 papers and one canvas almost exclusively.

Personally I have a 4880 that replaced a 4000,  used exclusively with gloss ink.   I have a 9880 on matte ink only.   I've never switched blacks in either printer.  The epson printers are extremely well built, a proven design, and can be expected to run for several years printing all day long.    The 4000 printed the equivalent of 18,000 8x10's over almost 4 years without a service call.    It is big and bulky though and if you intend to switch back and forth between black inks frequently the 3800 could be much cheaper in the long run.   Though I use Canon equipment for photography the reliability and support problems with the ipf scared me off.  I don't think HP has a model in this league.

Take all of the above for what it's worth, YMMV.

Good luck and happy printing!
Doug
Logged
guerillary
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13


WWW
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2008, 12:56:12 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: John Schweikert
I have yet to see the pizza wheel marks. I am just printing on luster and matte papers. Do you have a 3800, and have you experienced the marks first hand or just spreading the "word"? I read about the pizza wheel marks but still bought the printer. I have yet to see any imperfections in the prints the 3800 produces.

The 3800 has been on the market for several years. Perhaps the issue was more evident early on and not so much now, I don't know for sure. The printer seems pro enough for this pro.


Pizza Wheel marks are a known issue with the 3800, there's tons of documentation on it, yes I own a 3800 and I'm not spreading the "word" (or gospel as you might say in Nashville); you can read more about it at...

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Ep...eels_workaround

... I mostly notice the issue on Photo Rag Pearl and Gold Fiber Silk stocks.  If you have a 3800 and one of these stocks, print a solid black square at least 8 square inches large using either the manual rear or top feed slots.  Go out into bright sunlight and hold the print out half a foot in front of your chest.  Look down toward the surface.  See the pizza wheel marks glinting as pairs of vertical, dotted rows about 4 inches between sets.  Say "well I'll be darned", go back inside, start pulling all your prints out and run your pizza-trained eyes across them without going back outside.  I'm sure you can find the issue on other stocks however I'd start with the one's I'll guarantee will do it so you know what to scan for on others.

You can eliminate the marks using the front feed, but you need a backing sheet to maintain print quality on your typical stock weights.  Problem is this technique exposes you to head strikes; in short because you're using the front feed in a unconventional manner.

The rest of Epson's pro line uses a vacuum system to handle the job those ejection rollers do in the 3800, thus there are no marks from other models.  I'm guessing the lack of this system lowered Epson's manufacturing costs enough to offer entry-level pricing on the line.  Or maybe there wasn't enough room for it in the 3800.  Who knows.  It's the one drawback that I think officially puts "sumer" at the end of pro.

Now I see the 3800 and 4800 are almost the same price.  Doesn't that burn us up amidst the issue.

If you don't mind losing borderless printing and are out of warranty, you can also physically remove the rollers.  Here's the link covering that technique...

http://www.inkjetart.com/pizza/

Good Luck.

Logged

Ryan Thompson
www.giantsteps.us
Pages: « 1 [2]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad