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Author Topic: Rhe RED Med format  (Read 47691 times)
yaya
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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2008, 08:08:24 AM »
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Quote from: jing q
I think that's what's amazing about RED.
the owner seems interested in being progressive instead of the trickle-trickle upgrades that all other companies seem to be offering. Just like Tesla and Google...
This will definitely force some hands to release something better faster!

FWIW I believe he owns an Aptus 75 with an RZ....

Yair
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paulmoorestudio
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2008, 09:16:50 AM »
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Quote from: ynp
645 and 6x17 sensors announced today. No delivery date (and year) yet...

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21835&page=3
Does it mean that with the new sensor Live View to the LCD screen will be possible?
Yevgeny


holy smokes batman!
I feel like a beat-cop with a night stick looking at all the kit in the bat cave.. wow.
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jing q
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 09:20:30 AM »
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Quote from: yaya
FWIW I believe he owns an Aptus 75 with an RZ....

Yair

Well because he doesn't have a 645 sensor yet...grin
but I'm sure if Leaf comes up with something better he'll still have a Leaf!
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2008, 09:58:34 AM »
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Aw shucks! They announce this just after I go out and get a brand new Canon G10. I wonder if the 617 Monstro Mysterium will fit in my shirt pocket?    
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SeanPuckett
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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2008, 10:50:18 AM »
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I waited two years, getting by (very well, thanks) with my D200, sniffing around looking for the right MF or FF camera to make my next big move.  And I'm so glad I haven't jumped yet.  A full frame Scarlet system is perfect for me.  And the idea that I can use both Canon and Nikon lenses on the same box (helloooo 85/1.2) basically makes me wet my pants.

To folks who suggest that RED can't deliver -- you were wrong before.  They'll do it, and guys like me who have been fed up with years of crap from digital MF companies who can't build a decent camera back interface, and loathing Canon and Nikon who keep selling the same locked-down system bodies with marginal updates and no customization possibilities are now drooling and making plans for lines of credit so we can fill wheelbarrows full of money to give to Jim Jannard.

To Canon and Nikon -- dump out your diapers and go home, you're done.  Marginalized.  If Nikon introduces a modular system in a week, I'll eat some of these words, but I can't imagine they would.  

It's a great time to be alive and be a photographer.
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RobertJ
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2008, 11:44:13 AM »
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I agree.  I'm glad I haven't upgraded to anything, because I knew RED was going to announce something crazy.  I thought it would be in December, not this soon!

I see a lot of skeptics, and that's fine.  But RED has already delivered with the RED ONE.  There's no reason to bash them, or to defend your precious Leaf/Sinar/Phase backs and camera equipment.  Get over it.
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klane
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2008, 11:50:25 AM »
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Pretty interesting stuff, especially that 617 sensor! The only thing that bugs me is that all of their stuff looks like it was designed by a group of 10 year olds trying to make it look "cool" as possible.
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TMARK
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2008, 11:52:34 AM »
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We use a Red One.  I don't actually operate it much, as its my partner's rig, but I can tell you, Red makes fine, fine gear with excellent IQ and excellent usability.  They fix problems, make things modular, make things upgradeable, give you what you need and what you want.  They leave all but Nikon and Canon in the dust when it comes to producing a professional camera system that works really really well.  Seriously. The same price as a P65+, but with IMAX quality video, and I can configure it like a DSLR, like an H2/Mamiya AFD, like a movie cam? I can use my Mamiya lenses? I bet it shoots stills really fast.

The thing with Red:  They don't need fan boys defending them or posting excuses.  Every issue we've had has been addressed or answered honestly.  Really impressive.

I wonder which MFDB makers will be around in 2009-10 when the Epic is released?

I wonder what their response will be, now and in the future from the MFDB makers. So much of the industry is looking backwards and is fearful or reactionairies.  If the MFDB makers don't make radical changes to the way they do business, they won't last.
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ynp
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2008, 12:04:35 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
I wonder which MFDB makers will be around in 2009-10 when the Epic is released?

I wonder what their response will be, now and in the future from the MFDB makers. So much of the industry is looking backwards and is fearful or reactionairies.  If the MFDB makers don't make radical changes to the way they do business, they won't last.

I wonder the same. And I am more interested to have Live View to the LCD screen. I am told that with the current generation of the CCD it is impossible!
Do you know who manufacture the RED sensors? I am reading that RED developed the sensor, but as far as I know they to not own the steppers.
Thank you,
Yevgeny
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samuel_js
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2008, 12:17:42 PM »
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The hole RED thing is pretty funny I think.
Some people think you need the Apollo 13's control room to make a photograph....

I see photography much more simpler that taking pictures with a TRANSFORMER ROBOT.
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TMARK
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2008, 12:23:59 PM »
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Quote from: samuel_js
I see photography much more simpler that taking pictures with a TRANSFORMER ROBOT.

And that is, admirable.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 12:31:00 PM »
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It might be fun to keep a copy of this thread, then re-examine it four years from now and see who was right, who was wrong, and why.

Here's my personal 2 cents: This system isn't a competitor for Nikon/Canon/et al DSLRs, at least not to any extent greater than a Hassy V was a competitor for a Canon F1 back in 1980. It's a modular system, and when you put the whole thing together, you end up with something that doesn't really fit into the DSLR form factor.

It will be great for those who need it, but I don't expect you'll see too many parents sitting in the bleachers of football stadiums taking shots of their kids with Red 6X17 rigs. Just the way you didn't see too many parents shooting their kids with Hassys during the big SLR boom of the late '70s. The consumer market will drive Canon/Nikon developments for the forseeable future.

Will I buy a Red rig? Doubtful, for the same reasons I don't have a good MF data back. I just can't afford it. But there was a time when even those of us on the low end of the photo equipment totem pole could easily afford a LF view camera. I don't see any reasonably inexpensive digital solution for LF combined with perspective control on the horizon.
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2008, 12:35:06 PM »
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I think it is all good

My recent experiments with video just makes me think that movies and stills will converge in the commercial marketplace

I love modular

Hopefully we will get a 800ISO 50FPS digital back for my H1 body and lenses sometime soon

Mybe from Phase or sinar - this will give them a kick

One note-  AF is lense based (red only) and FF onlly at this point - so a 1Ds beater is not cheap or proven

S

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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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dustblue
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 12:37:45 PM »
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I think red got the same issue which MFDB makers encountered---the price. With a $12,000 FF35 24mp camera(not mention without grip/battery/evf or lcd, and out there one year later from announcement like the sony a900) they can hardly beat the 5dII, which has 1/4th the price, and could get to our hands within weeks.  And with a $45,000 mf sensor, how could they sell it to the photographers who only needs a big and cheap 54LV/H3DII31(of course they'll be even cheaper one year from now)?

The Red is great, really amazing, but they need to do some homework about the market, or they just don't care about a real mass production.
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Robin Balas
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2008, 12:37:48 PM »
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Quote from: ynp
I wonder the same. And I am more interested to have Live View to the LCD screen. I am told that with the current generation of the CCD it is impossible!
Do you know who manufacture the RED sensors? I am reading that RED developed the sensor, but as far as I know they to not own the steppers.
Thank you,
Yevgeny

RED uses CMOS not CCD technology. Their sensors are propriatery in the same way a few MFDB makers have done it lately, so I wouldn't expect them to show up in some other MFDB soon.

Note that they have just caught up with their backorder on RED ONE's and have now delivered +5000 camera systems. Quite good for a new kid on the block and especially when you think of that a typical RED ONE outfit is +/-25-30K$

None of their cameras have a ground glass, and they all shot RAW video and stills in full rez. It features a separate mode for stills which I hope is uncompressed unlike the video. There is no mechanical shutters limiting the flash sync, however a rolling shutter is used and that will not work well with a flash so how they have worked around that one is unknown. How the AF will function is unknown but there is AF and IS on their own lenses.
For the EPIC 645 you will need a storage module like a CF or SSD module, the remote control, the camera handle, lens mount and an EVF or LCD display. An extra battery module is optional as well as an IO module for advanced motion film setups.
Judging by their current price list this should add up to:
Brain 45.000$
CF module 500$
Remote control Huh 1.000$ Huh
RED handle (contains 1 battery) Huh 1.500$ Huh
EVF 3.000$ / LCD 2.500$
Lens Mount 500$
SUM 51.500$ Almost like a MFDB system here in Norway...
So will I get one? YES!
MHO

And they have screwed up the sensor size in the chart, the 617 is 168mm long not 186mm, both to be 6x17 format and to have square sensels.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 05:07:07 PM by Robin Balas » Logged

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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2008, 12:46:44 PM »
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People seem to be comparing to a stills camera - the red wont win against the 1DSMk5

But what does shooting movie that has grabable stills bring to the party ??

Maybe nothing - maybe everything

Partly dependant on being able to attain movement freezing shutter speeds

I think still advertising images could probably be pulled from footage - to integrate print/web/telly advertising for instance

Now that could be a real worry to stills photographers who dont jump towards the moving image..

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2008, 12:50:22 PM »
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And of course image stabilisation is non existant and AF is single point from 1980s on all MF cameras

(the face recognition on the SR12handy cam needs to be seen to be believed!)

Any system that brings intelligent AF to MF cameras will be a major upgrade

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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TMARK
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2008, 01:31:25 PM »
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Quote from: dustblue
I think red got the same issue which MFDB makers encountered---the price. With a $12,000 FF35 24mp camera(not mention without grip/battery/evf or lcd, and out there one year later from announcement like the sony a900) they can hardly beat the 5dII, which has 1/4th the price, and could get to our hands within weeks.  And with a $45,000 mf sensor, how could they sell it to the photographers who only needs a big and cheap 54LV/H3DII31(of course they'll be even cheaper one year from now)?

The Red is great, really amazing, but they need to do some homework about the market, or they just don't care about a real mass production.

Regarding the price, well, its STEEP but not if you also shoot video.  If you shoot video, or films, or make commercials, or make music videos, then you really only need an Epic 645 and a 5d2.  In short I think they have done their homework about their market.  
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Misirlou
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2008, 01:42:21 PM »
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Quote from: Morgan_Moore
People seem to be comparing to a stills camera - the red wont win against the 1DSMk5

But what does shooting movie that has grabable stills bring to the party ??

Maybe nothing - maybe everything

Partly dependant on being able to attain movement freezing shutter speeds

I think still advertising images could probably be pulled from footage - to integrate print/web/telly advertising for instance

Now that could be a real worry to stills photographers who dont jump towards the moving image..

S

You're positive the 1DsMk5 won't shoot HD video?
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dustblue
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2008, 02:05:51 PM »
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http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18710
According to this they want to penetrate in the dslr market. It looks like they still have something new there but I'm not sure. Anyway with the scarlet and epic they sure rules in the videography market, but not the dslr one, not yet.

And I hope they would really give us a "DSLR killer", not for beaten the canon or nikon, but push them to be better.


Quote from: TMARK
Regarding the price, well, its STEEP but not if you also shoot video.  If you shoot video, or films, or make commercials, or make music videos, then you really only need an Epic 645 and a 5d2.  In short I think they have done their homework about their market.
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