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Author Topic: Rhe RED Med format  (Read 51485 times)
juicy
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« Reply #220 on: November 25, 2008, 05:59:23 PM »
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Quote from: pss
RED

i guess all our posts were a little premature....new announcement dec 3rd....which will blow the old announcement out of the water....
i can't wait for the jan announcement....i had a feeling timetravel is possible....

RED is interesting.
What is not interesting is 300+ posts without any real info about anything   and one post that announces that there will be future announcements  .  
 
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Juanito
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« Reply #221 on: November 26, 2008, 11:24:11 AM »
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Here's a question: How does this setup handle verticals? Most of my commercial work is vertical (full page ads and all) but video is a horizontal medium. Does this mean that we give up vertical?

John
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Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #222 on: November 26, 2008, 11:30:08 AM »
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Quote from: Juanito
Here's a question: How does this setup handle verticals? Most of my commercial work is vertical (full page ads and all) but video is a horizontal medium. Does this mean that we give up vertical?

John

who says video is a horizontal medium ?

ok most screens are horizonatal but many web pages may require (moving) vertical images

how does it handle it - you turn it on its side

now you are going to need real quality to crop a vertical still out of a 16:9 frame - Red 10k ?

and the lens look will be all wrong unless the sensor is Huuuge

S
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yaya
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« Reply #223 on: November 27, 2008, 07:13:23 AM »
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Quote from: Morgan_Moore
who says video is a horizontal medium ?

ok most screens are horizonatal but many web pages may require (moving) vertical images

how does it handle it - you turn it on its side

now you are going to need real quality to crop a vertical still out of a 16:9 frame - Red 10k ?

and the lens look will be all wrong unless the sensor is Huuuge

S

Does anyone know a video camera that records vertical motion? So if I turn it on it's side will I get vertical recording?
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #224 on: November 27, 2008, 07:25:47 AM »
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People will shoot for cropped verticals at 1080i or 720p from RED 4k footage:http://www.mammothhd.com/MHD_compformat2.html but there's nothing to stop you turning your camera through 90 degrees. That is often done for shooting a standing actor against a green screen to get much resolution for a better key.

Graeme
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yaya
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« Reply #225 on: November 27, 2008, 07:36:14 AM »
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Quote from: Graeme Nattress
People will shoot for cropped verticals at 1080i or 720p from RED 4k footage:http://www.mammothhd.com/MHD_compformat2.html but there's nothing to stop you turning your camera through 90 degrees. That is often done for shooting a standing actor against a green screen to get much resolution for a better key.

Graeme

Thanks Graeme for the info it shows you how little I know about video....from all the P&S stills cameras and the small videocams I've used I could never record vertical videos, as if the sensor is always read in one orientation and the file/ frames stay sideways...
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jjj
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« Reply #226 on: November 27, 2008, 08:43:53 AM »
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I saw a video online a few days back that was vertical. No reason when shooting for web why that cannot be done as web video is usually way smaller than monitor anyway.
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jjj
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« Reply #227 on: November 27, 2008, 08:47:02 AM »
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Quote from: yaya
Thanks Graeme for the info it shows you how little I know about video....from all the P&S stills cameras and the small videocams I've used I could never record vertical videos, as if the sensor is always read in one orientation and the file/ frames stay sideways...
The video will record vertically no problem. It's just that playback is only ever horizontal, so unless you then turn video in an editing package it will play on it's side.
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #228 on: November 27, 2008, 08:50:01 AM »
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Vertically oriented plasmas are often used for venue playback.

Graeme
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yaya
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« Reply #229 on: November 27, 2008, 09:08:43 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
The video will record vertically no problem. It's just that playback is only ever horizontal, so unless you then turn video in an editing package it will play on it's side.

How long does it take to turn a 2 minutes HD clip so that it's playback runs viertically on a reasonable hardware/ software package?
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eronald
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« Reply #230 on: November 27, 2008, 06:20:49 PM »
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Quote from: Graeme Nattress
Vertically oriented plasmas are often used for venue playback.

Graeme

Fashion is typically filmed vertically I think, as it is played back vertically on rotated large screens in boutiques.

Edmund
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samuel_js
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« Reply #231 on: November 27, 2008, 07:45:58 PM »
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This is how this RED thing is so revolutionary? You already need workarounds to shoot a vertical still...  

So how do you shoot vertical with a videocamera? Let's say you're filming a portrait. If you turn the camera to the left, does the LCD turn the image to the right to show the correct orientation? What if you are left handed?.....
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jjj
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« Reply #232 on: December 01, 2008, 05:36:47 AM »
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Quote from: yaya
How long does it take to turn a 2 minutes HD clip so that it's playback runs viertically on a reasonable hardware/ software package?
How long  is a piece of string?!  
And here's an alternative and better answer.
Quote from: eronald
Fashion is typically filmed vertically I think, as it is played back vertically on rotated large screens in boutiques.

But why are you shooting vertically? Unless you do so with a view to showing on vertical screens, you simply get an image in centre of your widescreen display with blank screen estate to either side. Is this preferable to learning how to compose with a horizontal remit?
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jjj
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« Reply #233 on: December 01, 2008, 05:40:10 AM »
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Quote from: samuel_js
So how do you shoot vertical with a videocamera? Let's say you're filming a portrait. If you turn the camera to the left, does the LCD turn the image to the right to show the correct orientation? What if you are left handed?.....
How is that any different from using a still camera?  

It's only those shooting tethered and viewing on a monitor that will see an image at 90 degrees to normal. But you can always set monitors to vertical orientation.
You will simply see your vertical subject in the correct orientation in viewfinder.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #234 on: December 01, 2008, 08:49:17 AM »
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Quote from: samuel_js
This is how this RED thing is so revolutionary?

For shooting stills, it isn't. And, it will be much more expensive for similar resolution than MFDB. I'm still trying to understand why some people seem to be going crazy and predicting the end of MF digital.
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« Reply #235 on: December 01, 2008, 10:25:42 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
For shooting stills, it isn't. And, it will be much more expensive for similar resolution than MFDB. I'm still trying to understand why some people seem to be going crazy and predicting the end of MF digital.


you can personally dislike the thought of a hybrid camera that shoots video and stills, but in regards to red as a company and the product they have produced to date you can't dismiss them.   red seems to be well funded and has delivered something that in the cinema world their film competitors haven't.  don't underestimate the word "delivered".

you also can't dismiss the fact that they have come at the industry with a different mindset, working direct with customers rather than through the traditional distributor-dealer-customer system.

if any medium format company had sold as many top end complete systems as red has in the past year, there would be dozens of press releases and dancing on the roofs in Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden and Israel.

every photographer probably should take a hard look at the way the images for commerce industry is going.  A few years ago a 22mpx still camera back (sans body and lenses) went for $30,000 (U.S.), now with nikon, sony and canon's recent cameras, that price for 22 mpx varies from $3,000 to $7,000.  

it's not that current medium format cameras are bad or don't fit  a niche, but since they seem to be rooted in the same high megapixel, low iso still capture only catagory, that niche stands a good chance of becoming smaller.

red has also looked at the image making industry in a very non traditional manner.  first they produced a equivalent digital cinema camera, next planned is a series of hybrids that cover still and motion.  what is amazing is they have done this starting with a clean sheet of paper, not caught in the traditional trappings of film cameras, other than lens mount, which in many ways makes the red the ultimate open source system.

since new york is the mecca for all commerce, talk to any rental house or studio and ask them how many medium format backs they rent today vs. a year ago, (or for that matter just ask them how business is in general) .  just read these forums and see how someone like t-mark's business has grown by offering motion imagery through the red and step back and ask yourself this question.

if you were going to invest $40,000 today on a high end imaging system would you continue with a stills only medium format back and camera.

for you, probably so because you are obviously brand and product centric, but for many photographers the prospects of a stills only world (especially a low iso, slow to work still camera system) the prospects are looking more limited by the day.  for the same photographers saying they will only use one brand of camera, one format, regardless of the genre would be economic and artistic suicide.

you just don't have to look too far to understand that even prior to the current economic challenges, traditional media (print and broadcast) has been hit hard by computer use and the computer is the supreme medium for interactivity.

by all reports  print and broadcast advertising is down while interactive advertising is still showing growth.  

you also don't have to look far to see some form of motion and interactive images on just about any major merchandisers web site, in store, or on the street.  4 years ago times square was the place for huge moving imagery flashing by in real time and today, every city has it.

some photographers are finally going to realize that they are image makers (and business people as well as artists) and use cameras like the red and the 5dII as a way to expand their vision and their reach.  that's the plan of any business, large or small.  

others are going to stay in their current segment and not be affected by any technological change.  for a few this will work, for most it wont'.

if your annie, working on projects where the styling budget alone is in the large 6 figure range your probably good staying with  stills.  for the mere mortals, you will probably have to plan your equipment investments wisely and not look at what they can do for you today, but what you can offer tomorrow, turning a blind eye to the traditional format, or name on the camera.
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dkeyes
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« Reply #236 on: December 02, 2008, 01:15:50 PM »
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Looks like a great line-up of video cameras (for the pro with cash).
Looks like a mediocre line-up of stills cameras (if you consider price/performance ratio, handling, features, etc., etc.)

For: video pros (who may also need a still)

Not for: photographers (who may need occasional video).

As with any "all-in-one" tool, they rarely excel at everything but may excel at somethings.
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Jimbob2
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« Reply #237 on: December 22, 2008, 02:43:34 PM »
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Comment about Monstro 6x17am sensor.

I have no doubt that the RED camera works well as an alternative to 35mm movie film camera.  The red camera has a loyal following and apparently works well.  

That been said, I kinda doubt that a small company (like Red) can produce a 60mmx170mm digital CMOS sensor when the big companies (like Dalsa, Kodak, Canon, and Sony) have not yet achieved half of this size.  It's admirable that they "plan" to produce this camera, but so far the largest sensor that company has sold is a 24.4mm x 13.7mm.  The 60mm x 170mm format is 30 times the size of their present offerings.  Many satellite & telescope companies have experience making large sensors, but the largest is about 100megapixel to date.


I will purchase one of these cameras if they are made, but I sincerely doubt the 6x17cm sensor will be created by red for many years to come.

Thanks for reading my comment.
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Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #238 on: December 22, 2008, 02:57:01 PM »
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I fully understand the skepticism over the 617 sensor. I also remember how RED was told that the original RED One was impossible, couldn't be done, couldn't be made, wouldn't work etc. I'm, looking forwards to seeing what you shoot with it when you get it though! Thanks,

Graeme
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #239 on: December 23, 2008, 03:48:58 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
The video will record vertically no problem. It's just that playback is only ever horizontal, so unless you then turn video in an editing package it will play on it's side.

And of course, it is unthinkable and impossible to leave the video as-shot and simply mount the display monitor vertically...

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.
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