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Author Topic: Printing with different color spaces  (Read 1853 times)
Photoartist
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« on: November 15, 2008, 06:46:27 PM »
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Am currently shooting all new work in Prophoto.  My old work is in Adobe.  I calibrate my printer with a Spyder.

1)  Can I use the same profiles with both color spaces since the emphasis (in the print dialog) seems to be on the rendering intent?

2)  When I soft proof an orange sunset image it looks orange as it has for the entire time I am using it.  When I open the same image and convert and save it off into Prophoto it now soft proofs as a blue/purple sky.  Any thought?  Seems I will have to keep one output workflow for each color space.

3)  Have not installed yet, but have just unpacked an Epson 4880.  With all the new technology I read about, is calibrating the printer as important as it was?
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2008, 06:52:10 AM »
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Quote from: Photoartist
Am currently shooting all new work in Prophoto.  My old work is in Adobe.  I calibrate my printer with a Spyder.

1)  Can I use the same profiles with both color spaces since the emphasis (in the print dialog) seems to be on the rendering intent?

2)  When I soft proof an orange sunset image it looks orange as it has for the entire time I am using it.  When I open the same image and convert and save it off into Prophoto it now soft proofs as a blue/purple sky.  Any thought?  Seems I will have to keep one output workflow for each color space.

3)  Have not installed yet, but have just unpacked an Epson 4880.  With all the new technology I read about, is calibrating the printer as important as it was?

I've not heard of calibrating a printer with a Spyder - one usually calibrates and profiles a display with a Spyder - is there something new here I'm not aware of?

The printer profile performs a separate role from the display profile. This question comes up over and over again and has been addressed a number of times in these forums. I recommend reading previous topics to get more insight into this, or better still, buy Michael and Jeff's "Camera to Print" tutorial where the whole colour management process is laid out so clearly from A to Z.

In a nutshell, some colours can be affected by a change of colour working space but a change from orange to blue sounds highly unusual and not something that a change in colour working space would cause. This change can affect the saturation of the same colours but not not usually such a radical hue shift.

Calibrating and profiling your printer for each paper you use remains as important as it always was. It is essential to make sure that your soft proof is set-up for the specific printer/paper profile you will use for printing, to make sure that you have selected that same paper in the printer dialogue, to make sure the rendering intent is the same in the soft proof as it is in the printer settings dialogue, to make sure that you have "Photoshop Mananges Color" turned on in the Photoshop print dialogue and "Printer Manages Color" turned off in the printer driver. Also enable Black Point Compensation wherever it is offered. In soft proof I also enable "Simulate Paper Color" because I find it provides a more reliable soft proof, but there other respectable people who don't agree with me on that last point. It's more noticeable for some papers than others.

I suggest you make sure all of this is in order, and then compare your softproof between colour working spaces. You should not see enormous differences between ProPhoto and Adob RGB(98) on your display, except that saturation of reds is the usual issue expanding the colour working space. You can control that in Photoshop under soft-proofing.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2008, 12:48:47 PM »
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Quote from: MarkDS
I've not heard of calibrating a printer with a Spyder - one usually calibrates and profiles a display with a Spyder - is there something new here I'm not aware of?

The printer profile performs a separate role from the display profile. This question comes up over and over again and has been addressed a number of times in these forums. I recommend reading previous topics to get more insight into this, or better still, buy Michael and Jeff's "Camera to Print" tutorial where the whole colour management process is laid out so clearly from A to Z.

In a nutshell, some colours can be affected by a change of colour working space but a change from orange to blue sounds highly unusual and not something that a change in colour working space would cause. This change can affect the saturation of the same colours but not not usually such a radical hue shift.

Calibrating and profiling your printer for each paper you use remains as important as it always was. It is essential to make sure that your soft proof is set-up for the specific printer/paper profile you will use for printing, to make sure that you have selected that same paper in the printer dialogue, to make sure the rendering intent is the same in the soft proof as it is in the printer settings dialogue, to make sure that you have "Photoshop Mananges Color" turned on in the Photoshop print dialogue and "Printer Manages Color" turned off in the printer driver. Also enable Black Point Compensation wherever it is offered. In soft proof I also enable "Simulate Paper Color" because I find it provides a more reliable soft proof, but there other respectable people who don't agree with me on that last point. It's more noticeable for some papers than others.

I suggest you make sure all of this is in order, and then compare your softproof between colour working spaces. You should not see enormous differences between ProPhoto and Adob RGB(98) on your display, except that saturation of reds is the usual issue expanding the colour working space. You can control that in Photoshop under soft-proofing.

Thank you for the information.  By Spyder, I was referring (probably overly broadly) to the monitor and print calibration package I got from Datacolor.  The box touted the Spyder and PrintPro.  I simply refer to the whole thing as spydering it.  Sorry for the confusion.

I will definitely get the Camera to Print tutorial.  I very much enjoyed the Fine Art Printing one.  

I have the settings you mentioned above on so that cannot be the problem.  It is on one particular image, unfortunately one of my best sellers.  Most others seem to behave within reasonable limits.

If I already have printer profiles set up for my paper, ink and intent in Adobe(98) do you think I need to make new/separate profiles for my new pushing into Prophoto?  I would be printing files in Adobe(98), Prophoto and Adobe(98) converted into Prophoto with the same profile.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2008, 01:07:54 PM »
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No - the printer profile is for the paper/ink/printer combination. But you may need to tweak some colours as a result of moving from a narrower to a wider color working space. This does not happen often, but I have encountered this issue - particularly with saturated reds.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
dmward
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 04:46:15 PM »
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I have an R2880 profiled and have profiled two papers using Print Pro.
My LCD monitor is calibrated with the Spyder software.

The Lightroom and CS3 print routines using the printer profiles result in excellent prints.
Lightroom defaults to PPRGB and CS3 I can convert the image from PPRGB to s or Adobe RGB after editing and then print with the same results.

Naturally one has to be careful when doing the conversion from PPRGB to s or Adobe RGB done improperly it will cause some dramatic color shifts. Going the other way as well.
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