Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: What a boring website this has become - where's the old Michael gone?  (Read 11630 times)
Peter_Gulbinat
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18


WWW
« on: November 25, 2008, 03:40:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Michael

what a boring website this has become ... :-(

After all those years of excellent reviews, in depth analysis and very valuable tips & tricks, and me checking this website if not daily then every other day, I now rarely check back more than once every two weeks. I own most DVDs, but the last ones I kept fast forwarding ...

No more opinions except maybe once every three months, no more timely reviews, no more tips and tricks, just endless plugging of friends' workshops and empty promises.

what happened to the promised D3 review, an in-depth update on your printers, the entertaining views on middle format, digital photography in general and the small but useful gizmos?

A bag and a monopod?? Come on, you can do better!

Looking forward to the return of your old self :-)

Regards
Peter
Logged
BernardLanguillier
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7877



WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 04:24:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Peter_Gulbinat
what a boring website this has become ... :-(

Ever considered contributing?

Cheers,
Bernard

Logged

A few images online here!
cmburns
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 45


« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 10:04:18 AM »
ReplyReply

I think it's because the newness is off digital photography for most of us. There was a time a few years back where every few months brought some major advancement or new doodad we all had to have. Now the major advancements are few and far between. I'd say D3 last year for it's noise, and 5D2 this year for catching up in noise and offering video. There's very few new lenses that are droolworthy. Lightroom or Aperture is de rigeur now. There's very few places someone can post a picture from that we haven't seen a dozen times before. Practically all new printers produce spectacular prints, so the reviews are all about the bells and whistles. Basically it's all been done, and now we're just doing it incrementally better, and the increments are getting smaller. Toss a recession on to that and I think you'll see things slow even more. Fine with me, and probably most photographers, as it's easier on our wallets.
Logged
PierreVandevenne
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 12:02:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: cmburns
I think it's because the newness is off digital photography for most of us. There was a time a few years back where every few months brought some major advancement or new doodad we all had to have. Now the major advancements are few and far between. I'd say D3 last year for it's noise, and 5D2 this year for catching up in noise and offering video. There's very few new lenses that are droolworthy. Lightroom or Aperture is de rigeur now. There's very few places someone can post a picture from that we haven't seen a dozen times before. Practically all new printers produce spectacular prints, so the reviews are all about the bells and whistles. Basically it's all been done, and now we're just doing it incrementally better, and the increments are getting smaller. Toss a recession on to that and I think you'll see things slow even more. Fine with me, and probably most photographers, as it's easier on our wallets.

Couldn't agree more. The latest Photokina was a perfect illustration of this. I exhibited in 2002, 2004, 2006 and only visited in 2008. 2002 was the year when it was becoming clear that digital was killing analog: there was revolution in the air, and everything was new, fascinating and full of potentialities. 2004 was the year a lot of the expections materialized, in 2006 the Canon 5D was already old news and the focus was on the tools we could use to process and manage all the extremely good stuff cameras were delivering. Still somewhat exciting, but the magic was already fading. 2008 was a disaster, imho. The show was significantly smaller, as if manufacturers were forecasting hard times (they had booked space in 2007, when the crisis wasn't yet the global quagmire we have today), no fancy giveaway, very few cool shows. Booth that had spectacular acrobat shows in 2006 had either nothing or a couple of dancers on the floor, etc..., etc... Where people where queing in 2004-2006, we had empty desks. One of the few exceptions was of course the Nikon booth.  Many of the very competent people I talked with when I was trying to decide whether I should exhibit in 2008 told me they wouldn't go this time. I talked with scores of visitors after the show and not a single one of them claimed that 2008 was a good year. Interestingly, the print and web media covering the event mostly ignored the gloom and tried to sound as cheerful as before... well, it is also their business after all.

The early 2000s were an era of somewhat crazy enthusiastic people going forward doing exciting things. It was fun. The second part of the decade, at least in this field, seems to be more an age of somewhat boring users endlessly repeating what was done earlier. Also, technically, we are getting closer to the real physical limits in terms of resolution, signal to noise ratio, etc... Processing power can still increase though, maybe we have some potential here.

In this context, the fact that there's less exciting stuff on this website is understandable. Still, is there a clearly better resource elsewhere? If there is, I couldn't find any. <bait mode>Oh, yes, there is that Ken guy...</bait mode> Are there really many questions for which you can't find an answer or at least very good starting points by simply looking here?  (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/). I don't know, this isn't obvious - so much has already been covered in a now mature and stable industry. No wonder Michael may have a hard time finding new topics. As far as the LLVJ stuff is concerned, the Maisel interview was excellent, imho.

I think we need significant new stuff to become excited again.

Of course, there is that famous "convergence" thing. At this point, I wouldn't hold my breath for two reasons: skills and bandwidth. We have had the perfect illustration of those limitations with Laforet's 5D Mark II video imho. How many of us can expect to come even close to what he did? (I am sure quite a few people on this board could do very nice things, but we do have exceptional photographers here). For the majority of advanced photographers, early adopters, power users, etc... the supporting resources (artistic, logistics, production, etc...) are beyond reach. How many photographers can jump into video and be at home? Then there is bandwidth: do something spectacular and hit a wall. Heck, even Canon hit the wall on that one. And let's not forget human bandwidth: we can look at and be moved by an almost arbitrary number of images. How many movies can we stand if they aren't build on a solid scenario and  perfectly produced? A single B&W wedding picture of two hands touching can be very powerful. I can't imagine - maybe it's only me - being moved by a thirty second video of a ring exchange unless I have been emotionally prepared, there are a few cuts, ligthing is perfect, the appropriate music is properly synchronized and big red fat uncle Bob isn't cluttering the background.

Hmmm, OK, I digress... Let's leave it at this.

(and is I write this, I stumble on this http://vimeo.com/2314305 - for better or for worse, get ready for the Laforet style)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 01:07:44 PM by PierreVandevenne » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5724



WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 01:27:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: cmburns
... the newness is off digital photography for most of us. There was a time a few years back where every few months brought some major advancement or new doodad we all had to have. Now the major advancements are few and far between... There's very few new lenses that are droolworthy... Practically all new printers produce spectacular prints... Basically it's all been done...
Oh, nooooo!?

Does it mean I would have to start actually making pictures with all those gizmos accumulated over the (more exciting) years, instead of armchair-debating tools and techniques!? What has the world come to!?  
Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5468


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 01:38:32 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Peter_Gulbinat
what a boring website this has become ... :-(


Ya know what? I would demand my money back if you're not happy...oh yeah, it doesn't COST you a red cent to visit. Well, you're screwed bud.

Seriously, do you have a brain cell in your tiny head? What possible good do you expect to come of this post? Michael does what Michael wants...it's a nice place to be. (I'm in the same place). Boorish posts like the above have zero chance of bringing about positive change (if that indeed is what you were trying to do). Doode, you need to get a life. Maybe watch daytime soap operas or donate your time to a charity. Do something useful with your life instead of wasting it making really stupid posts on forums.
Logged
EBBS
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 28


WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 01:58:00 PM »
ReplyReply

I agree with Jeff.  If you donít like what Michael is or isnít putting on HIS web sight than I think it might be time to move on and find another sight to visit. And if you canít find that perfect web sight that gives you everything you want, than make your own so we can all see how you could do better.
Logged

Every day is a good day, just some are better than others!
Visit My Website
PierreVandevenne
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 02:14:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: EBBS
I agree with Jeff.  If you donít like what Michael is or isnít putting on HIS web sight than I think it might be time to move on and find another sight to visit. And if you canít find that perfect web sight that gives you everything you want, than make your own so we can all see how you could do better.

I believe Peter's post wasn't totally baseless or entirely negative. I am not 100% sure he deserves heavy flak...
Logged
Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5468


WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2008, 02:40:59 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PierreVandevenne
I believe Peter's post wasn't totally baseless or entirely negative. I am not 100% sure he deserves heavy flak...


Sure he does...he took a low road way of saying what he said. If one wanted to give an honest assessment, there's a lot better ways of doing do so than the OP. He was crying for attention and I for one am happy to give him the attention he asks for...

Look, you don't go over to a friend's house and kick the dog, insult the wife and fart in the living room. If you don't like visiting, then don't answer the phone when he calls...pretty easy to deal with this. If you come to the site, constructive criticism is useful and prolly encouraged (some people who posted in this sub-forum did actually bring about change without a lot of farting) but if you have nothing useful to say, save the friggin' bandwidth. (I hope this thread doesn't last long, it really ain't worth the effort).

Move along, there's nothing of interest for you here...

Logged
condit79
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 70


WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 03:21:54 PM »
ReplyReply

wow, so an honest critique is gets a mean response like this?  kick the dog, farting?  for real?  this guy was just thinking out loud it looks like and misses how entertaining it used to be.  I think he said so in a very respectful manner, and being mean back to someone asking an honest question is pretty silly.  Don't be so reactionary schewe.
Logged
dalethorn
Guest
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 03:26:32 PM »
ReplyReply

There are reasons why the world of LL *seems* to have slowed down or become repetitive, but it's not them. They are very busy doing things that you have probably missed, because you're stuck in a rut. In fact, Michael takes heat whenever his explorations venture beyond some people's safe/comfort zones. Poke around a little more in unfamiliar areas and see for yourself.
Logged
Schewe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5468


WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2008, 04:05:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: condit79
wow, so an honest critique is gets a mean response like this?


Want to point me to the "honest critique" part of the OP? I must have missed it...oh, do you mean where he calls the site boring? And that's useful how? Boring to HIM isn't providing any useful feedback that I can see...maybe I'm just dense (but I don't think so, ya know?)

Quote
Don't be so reactionary schewe.

You're kidding, right? Whew, for a second there I thought you really thought I was being reactionary...I'm ANYTHING but a reactionary...I do tend towards being radical...but being opposed to the status quo ain't what I'm about bud. Maybe you used the wrong word?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 11:49:04 PM by Schewe » Logged
canlogic
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


WWW
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 04:11:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Perhaps if the OP is so bored he could go on dpreview where he could take part in the debates of what the next Canon/Nikon camera will have or when the 1DMKIV will be released.
Logged

1dmkIII, some lenses, Epson 7880, iMac, Leica M8, other stuff
Peter_Gulbinat
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 18


WWW
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 05:22:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Apologies if some feathers were ruffled ...

To Bernard: Although I wasn't criticizing the quality of the forum, I accept your point, I am not exactly a heavy contributor and if you believe that this fact disqualifies me from criticizing the website, I respect although not share your opinion.

To cmburns and Pierre: Fair point, and that surely accounts for some lost pizazz, but then why announce upcoming articles (see quote below on the D3, I know there is another on printers ..) and then never mention them again?

Start quote
<6 May, 2008 - The Convergence of Still Photography and Video
<
<I have just returned from a long-weekend workshop photographing moose and spring landscape in Algonquin Park. My co-teacher was Pulitzer prize winning landscape <photographer Jack Dykinga. A good time was had by all, though it rained almost the whole time. (Great light though.) I'll have a small portfolio of mine as well as of the <participants on these pages within the next couple of weeks. The first of my images from Algonquin is now on the home page.
<
<This was also the first multi-day shoot in which I used the Nikon D3 exclusively, and I'll have more to say on this remarkable camera in a separate article in the days ahead.
End Quote

Pierre and Condit79, thanks ;-)

To slobodan56: And your point is? So we should all be making pictures and not spending time on the internet, neither reading nor creating websites? Great, thanks mom ...

To Schewe: Yes I know it's free, but it's public, so I take it comments and criticism are allowed. And the DVDs are not, so again, I think I can comment. Surely Michael can do whatever he wants and as he does so publicly, I am again allowed to comment. I thought the forum was the place for that, I am sorry if I misunderstood. I am sure though you're happy with positive comments, so I'm afraid you'll have to deal with the negative ones as well. As to the language used, I apologize if I offended you, but considering the language you used, I am inclined to believe you're not overly sensitive in that domain of life and neither am I. So I forgive you. And mostly, if someone reacts this way, it's because there is some truth in what is being said.

To canlogic: Yes, I know ... We're all not interested in new cameras because it's the photographer and not the tool (Is that you Ken ...?) and still we others (except you canlogic and Ken of course) still like to know what's happening, and that's why we come (came) to sites like these (in addition to all the other topics that were once treated here with stronger focus, like printers, excellent and original views on lenses and gear and more in-depth views on how to make better pictures).

To quote another site: "I'm starting to come to the conclusion that perhaps landscape photographers don't actually know how to talk about landscape photography" - Thom Hogan in reference to this site. I used to disagree with him. I'm starting to think he has a valid point.

Regards
Peter



Logged
laughingbear
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 198


« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2008, 06:19:53 PM »
ReplyReply



He teaches, is a speaker on conferences, arranges trips to Antarctica, Africa etc., writes reviews and essays, produces tutorials and DVD's, tests new printers and gear in general, runs a Gallery/Studio, photographs and prints, interviews interesting people like Henry and makes it available to us, occasionally likes to breath, drink and eat a little something, maintains the LL website, AND has a partner and family.

Jeff's example of visiting a friends house is excellent. <grin>

To title this " What a boring website this has become" is in deed like being a guest at your Neighbours place after you spoke with him 17 times in the last 5 years (pun intended) and rambling on what for a shite decoration he has installed in his house, making suggestions on changing the wallpaper.... You would not insult your neighbour like this?

Now let's have a pint together.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 06:23:27 PM by laughingbear » Logged
JDClements
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 312



WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2008, 07:24:38 PM »
ReplyReply

Well, that thread was anything but boring!  

Just to add my 1.48 cents worth (that's in Canadian dollars), I just did a Google search on "prophoto rgb" and guess what the number one hit is? Yep, this site. And I find that happens all the time. This is a great resource, with a lot of time and effort behind it.
Logged

James R
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 260


« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2008, 11:41:11 PM »
ReplyReply

Can somebody define boring so it applies to all site visitors/participants?  IMO, a site is only as boring as its participants. You shouldn't blame Micheal or Jeff, they hardly ooze blandness--witness Jeff's response to the OP.  Michael provides the site, but is he suppose to be the site entertainment?  The bottom line is a site can't be everything to everybody, or it becomes nothing to everyone.  Some people just need to move on and the site will continue to develop its personality.  

BTW, to me a forum like DP is boring.  I can't stand reading the responses.
Logged
JJP
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 208


« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 08:05:16 AM »
ReplyReply

In the midst of wave after wave, tsunami after tsunami of new digital gear being introduced, Michael has continued to keep LL a photography website as opposed to a gear website.  IMO, extremelly difficult to do given that digital lends itself to being gear minded.  Every new dslr upgrade is more and more feature/function packed & increases your chances and likelyhood that you'll be able to capture that all important shot that would've been impossible some years ago.  It's almost as though digital is taking the photographer out-of the photography.

In a nutshell, the paradox is:  How to keep that sinister "gear" word out-of digital photography?  Don't know how to answer that, but I do know that LL has done so as much as is humanly possible.
Just my 2c for all it's worth
jj  
 


Logged

JJ
ckimmerle
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 442



WWW
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 09:41:26 AM »
ReplyReply

Wow, the ridiculously defensive responses to the original post are sorta sad. Schewe, especially, was a horses arse and probably didn't read past the first sentence before penning his insults.

This site exists to make money for Michael (which is perfectly valid and highly enviable). It's not a simple labor of love (at least anymore), it's a BUSINESS. As such, complaints are are not only valid, but helpful. If potential customers are not happy, whether the complaints have substance or not, then the business may suffer. A single complaint is rarely a lone voice, but rather speaks for many who will remain silent. Any business owner worth his/her salt welcomes complaints (and compliments) rather than belittling and insulting the presenter.

Some of you have serious anger management issues, me thinks.

Chuck
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 09:44:21 AM by ckimmerle » Logged

"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing new landscapes, but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust

Chuck Kimmerle
WWW.CHUCKKIMMERLE.COM
JJP
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 208


« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 10:16:41 AM »
ReplyReply

Me thinks the numero uno question is not whether LL is boring, but whether or not Michael has been able to keep "photography" as LL's primary objective as opposed to "gear" oriented.  And IMO, LL is still about photography.  Oh, I fully realize that Michael keeps his gear upgraded, however, subjective as it is, when I look at his images, I don't see gear written all over them, instead I see composition.
Yes, LL is a business.  But so are all the other digital photographic websites, which IMO are extremely gear oriented.
jj
Logged

JJ
Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad