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Author Topic: the price of the used MF back  (Read 16315 times)
mcfoto
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 04:20:45 AM »
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Hi
I have my ZD camera on ebay for $3800.00 USD item 160300020107 with more than a day to go with no bids? There are a few watchers & I think this is market value but things seem to be changing by the week these days. On another topic I have been to two major MFD launches here in Sydney & the number of people attending has been really low.
Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 04:31:54 AM »
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I think a lot of us have to reconsider their job-choice. Photo hobbyists and amatuer photographers, even the boss of the " company" you are working for will be doing a lot of work some of us used to do. When he sees you coming with a amatuer camera such as a 5d(Mk2) he thinks" why pay that man so much when i can get me the tools myself". A great deal of the "mystery", hocus pocus about photography is gone and it became just a job like any other. This is certainly not thrue for all of us but to those who at the moment are having difficulties with extremely lower priced competition.
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revaaron
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 06:19:49 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I have my ZD camera on ebay for $3800.00 USD item 160300020107 with more than a day to go with no bids? There are a few watchers & I think this is market value but things seem to be changing by the week these days. On another topic I have been to two major MFD launches here in Sydney & the number of people attending has been really low.
Denis

I checked out your auction... all the "Hi" in the description could be scaring people off.
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evgeny
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2008, 06:30:17 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I have my ZD camera on ebay for $3800.00 USD item 160300020107 with more than a day to go with no bids? There are a few watchers & I think this is market value but things seem to be changing by the week these days. On another topic I have been to two major MFD launches here in Sydney & the number of people attending has been really low.
Denis

(Hi) You need to better name your auction, it is not shown in the search engine, and reconsider the price, at least the start price, better with no reserve, and ever free shipping, if your lovely gear really wants to find a new home.

(Hi)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 06:43:53 AM by evgeny » Logged
E_Edwards
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2008, 06:32:33 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I have my ZD camera on ebay for $3800.00 USD item 160300020107 with more than a day to go with no bids? There are a few watchers & I think this is market value but things seem to be changing by the week these days. On another topic I have been to two major MFD launches here in Sydney & the number of people attending has been really low.
Denis


Not to be unkind, but you'd have to be mad to buy this camera at that price when you have the 5DII already here which I have no doubt will be better in practically every aspect. I myself have a collection of old or outdated cameras that I haven't bothered selling.

Edward
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evgeny
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2008, 07:23:31 AM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
I think a lot of us have to reconsider their job-choice. Photo hobbyists and amatuer photographers, even the boss of the " company" you are working for will be doing a lot of work some of us used to do. When he sees you coming with a amatuer camera such as a 5d(Mk2) he thinks" why pay that man so much when i can get me the tools myself". A great deal of the "mystery", hocus pocus about photography is gone and it became just a job like any other. This is certainly not thrue for all of us but to those who at the moment are having difficulties with extremely lower priced competition.

In 2000 you had a priviledge to shoot with a 2 megapixel camera, which were sell for $2000.
Industry changed the world and jobs, that's the "mystery" hocus pocus.
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2008, 08:10:47 AM »
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In 2000 i shot with a 6Mp back ( leaf cantare) and a zillionpixel phase one scanback. No amatuer or hobby-man had acces to equipment like that. In my opinion backs should never have dropped in price, on the contrary. Now all equipment is available for every nitwit with some cash. It's like that formula 1 cars would become available for lets say 35000 euro..... when that happens I will become an Undertaker and funeral bureau.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2008, 08:24:27 AM »
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.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 08:36:27 AM by gwhitf » Logged
billy
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2008, 09:06:52 AM »
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" But let's be honest, out of 100 ad jobs, how many are shot at f1.4? And how many are shot at f11? Let's be real here. "

I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN HERE BUT PLEASE EXPLAIN JUST INCASE


I think Phase and Leaf and even Hassy sorta blew by not concentrating more on customer loyalty and customer relations. They make it pretty easy to just walk away, and migrate to 35.

I TOTALLY AGREE. I CAN CALL CANON ON THE PHONE AND BE TALKING TO SOMEONE IN 3 MINUTES FOR TECH SUPPPORT..... AND THEY ARE REAL NICE AND VERY HELPFUL. WITH PHASE I HAVE TO CREATE A WEB TICKET AND WAIT BACK FOR A USUALLY USELESS REPLY WITH SOME LINK TO A ONLINE "ANSWER" TO MY QUESTION THAT 3 OUT OF 4 TIMES TOTALL MISSED THE MARK AND JUST CONFUSED AND IRRITATED ME MORE. THE WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER, BESIDES QUICKBOOKS, THEY ARE TERRRIBLE.

That 5DII is supposedly shipping today. It will be interesting if it actually creates a revolution. I wonder how many MF guys will simply take the bait and bolt from MF. I'd never use the video function but it is a sexy Feature List. Makes a boxy old Phase back with a bad LCD seem very 1990.

SO SIMPLE, JUST MAKE A GREAT LCD. THEY WERE TRIPPING WITH THE P65 COMING OUT AND LOOKING JUST LIKE THE PREVIOUS BACKS.

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lisa_r
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2008, 09:17:39 AM »
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Do you think the Vanity Fair cover would have looked appreciably different if it were shot on the P65 instead of a Canon? If so, would anyone other than photographers notice? Sure, if Paolo Roversi did some of his twisty lens stuff it would look different, but we're not talking about that...
And speaking of feeling the camera magic, I have owned many cameras, and I did feel it with the original 5D for some reason. Even though it feels comparably cheap, not great view finder, etc. It had something which resonated with me. Maybe it's because it's small enough to bring everywhere with a 50mm attached, unlike my hasselblad, 1Ds3, etc. Almost like a P&S, but with great IQ.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 09:18:36 AM by lisa_r » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2008, 09:44:42 AM »
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There is more than just magazine photography. Most of the time magazines don't pay that well in my experience so it might also be hard to commercially justify medium format for that. Aside from the part that it sometimes might not even be the right choice of instrument. So how flattering it might be to have your image on the cover of some glossy magazine it is not by any means indicative of a common denominator for maximum needed quality.  There is a lot of work that can be done with MF backs where clients can see the difference and do appreciate it, even if they don't always know what it is that they are seeing.I can see it which I sometimes find even more important.

The other part of the equation is that some people, apparently an ever diminishing group, is enjoying the use of these clunky, expensive, error prone, last centuryish stuff. Again, this group seems to be getting smaller by the day.

The one size fits all tool Canon has become the great equalizer... It makes me wonder how many of these people will trade-in their 5DII for a Sony Ericsson cell when that hits 21MP (it is already at 12MP so can't be that long anymore). With a good retoucher you will probably not see the difference between those 2 on a glossy magazine either. Now that is what I call portability

Ah well. it is the same discussion as ever and really quite irrelevant. As soon as the Canons or the Nikon of this world really can deliver the same joy that I experience when I see my medium format files (certainly multishot files) I will gladly use nothing else.

Maybe, I should focus more on retouching. It seems this market will be growing much larger at the expense of good photography.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 09:58:37 AM by Dustbak » Logged
sergio
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2008, 10:50:11 AM »
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Some cameras have a different feel and put you in a special mood for making photographs. That is what I feel about LF. It is very cumbersome, heavy, slow, almost disfunctional in an operational way, but in the end it puts me in this photomaking psychic mood that inspires me. Canon 1Ds cameras don´t have that for me. The 5D did have it, at least for some jobs. Old Hasselblads have it for sure, especially for the square. Composing in a square is a wonderful experience, though a difficult one when coming from 35mm.
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bcooter
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2008, 11:25:50 AM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
Ah well. it is the same discussion as ever and really quite irrelevant. As soon as the Canons or the Nikon of this world really can deliver the same joy that I experience when I see my medium format files (certainly multishot files) I will gladly use nothing else.

Maybe, I should focus more on retouching. It seems this market will be growing much larger at the expense of good photography.


it is the same discussion that has gone on for 5 years and for some reason the message just doesn't seem to be getting through to the people that make these cameras.  medium format is great if everything is smooth, easy and usually still.   if that is their intended market then they're fine and should just keep it going.

the thing is if you shoot people,  once you put a medium format back on a "film" camera like the contax, it changes.  The small but useable viewfinder gets cropped, the shooting speed drops and the responsiveness sometimes is dead on quick and other times dead slow, probably depending on the computer, the software, the ram, the digital tech, barometric pressure, etc. etc.  I find myself using the p21 more than the p30 just because it was more responsive and faster, but at some point you begin to ask yourself why.  

there is a reason that when you view an annie video she is shooting a canon and zoom.  You push the button and it fires, you turn off the strobes and you can shoot in twilight, you shoot somebody running and it will actually focus on them.

medium format has dug a huge hole and climbed in.   first they started that silly business model of buy today, get your upgrade in a week, month or year, and once it is delivered get ready to open your wallet again because the newest upgrade is announced the moment your handed the box.   everything in medium format is priced and sold like buying a buick (and we all know what's happened to them), with time stamped specials and dealers with specific sales zones that make no sense in an internet world.  

In the last few years, mf has found ways to lock down their systems and even marginalize the format further.    you needed an actuary to write a schematic to understand what back works on what camera.  

medium format made the mistake of trying to sell these camera backs like lcd televsions where every year or so a new bigger one comes out.  the problem is lcd tv's go down in price not up and any photographer can only absorb so much money and time.

I think we all know if the leaf afi II or 7 or whatever it's called, really had clean high iso, had a great lcd, (great not semi good), had real wireless that didn't require a computer and had a clear and definate delivery date of lenses, finders, rotating backs and didn't cost $45,000 for a full kit, there would be a lot more of them sold, even in today's time.  if it was built, sold and delivered as the camera of a lifetime then it's worth the money, but does anyone believe any digital camera you buy is going to last even 1/20th of your career.   same holds true for all the makers, but they are always late on something vital, usually software, which is beyond belief considering these things live off their software to function properly.

the crazy thing is a lot of people, myself included, would love just a full frame 645 camera that went to high iso, fired when the button is pushed, didn't require waiting for firmware, software upgrades and fixes and most of all didn't come with a system of first announce all the upgrades, secondly deliver the camera with only 2/3's of the promised upgrades or accessories and to add insult to injury before all the bugs are worked out try to sell the buyer a new camera and/or back at a $15,000 bump, which will have all the upgrades and usability promised in the previous version.

now the mf makers are all offering discounts, trade ins, different pricing schemes and while they're busy reshuffling the balance sheets and making strategic alliances here comes Canon with a 21 mpx camera that shoots stills and video for $3,000, 1/10th of the price of a new medium format back, 1/15th of the price if you buy lenses and build a complete system.

think about that one for a moment and wonder why nobody on the sale section is buying used medium format backs at even 1/2 of the original retail price.

then think about this (go to the movie on the far right) and tell me where the world of images is going.

http://journeys.louisvuitton.com/vuitton.h...n_US&shop=1
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:26:40 AM by bcooter » Logged
paul_jones
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2008, 12:17:35 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
T
My vote for ultimate camera: A P65 on an H body. But it'll never happen. Or a P65 on a vastly redesigned Mamiya body.

Time is ticking -- can these MF companies get it together before Canon/Nikon sweep the world, and own everything? The time to act is now.

whats stopping you putting a p65 h-mount onto a h1 or h2?  

there will be an H-mount

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5934



« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 12:23:56 PM by paul_jones » Logged

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John_Black
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2008, 12:58:45 PM »
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The other side of this, two of my friend just bought their first digital backs.  One bought a P30 for a H1, used, $5400.  The other bought an Aptus-22 for the Mamiya, used, $7500.  Both are happy with the files.  Both are professional photographers and do this for a living.  The depreciation of digital backs is extreme, but it does flatten out.  With some smart shopping there are great values out there - and depreciation isn't much a risk.  And these 2-3 year old backs have their kinks worked out - including the software.  Add a 5DII to the mix, and it can do all the high-ISO work and those ad-hoc situations where a digital back isn't the best choice.  I look forward to the day a used P65+ is on Ebay for ~$7500 in about 5 years.  
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lance_schad
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2008, 01:41:43 PM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
whats stopping you putting a p65 h-mount onto a h1 or h2?  

there will be an H-mount

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5934

It will be available in the H,V,PhaseOne/AFD and Contax mounts , then you could use an RZ or PROIID and many other systems via adapters.

L


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mcfoto
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2008, 02:01:26 PM »
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Hi

In the past 15 months there have been some really big changes especially from Canon ( 1DsMKIII & 5DII ), Nikon D3 ( very high iso ) & RED. With MFD there are new backs that are larger in chip size from Leaf & Phase. I am very curious about this new RED (645 chip) that will take Mamiya lenses. At the moment we are shooting mostly Canon & really enjoying it. I think another way to get more photographers using MFD is to reduce the rental price of the backs.
Denis
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rethmeier
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2008, 02:55:10 PM »
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Denis! Hi!
You got a bid!
Cheers,
Willem.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2008, 03:13:22 PM »
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while we are on the topic of bargain backs, my valeo 22 h-mount is on ebay now. 3600 start price.

Item number: 220319480506

cheers paul
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2008, 04:01:15 PM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
h-mount

lot of items for H... and good price for buyer... I'd go for a Mam mount.
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