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Author Topic: Hoping the Mamiya Tilt/Shift comes soon  (Read 5499 times)
smhoer
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« on: November 29, 2008, 09:11:34 PM »
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I finally took the plunge and bought a P45 for a Mamiya AFDII.  Looking forward to getting this kit in my hands soon.  I went out and shot sunrise this morning using my (soon to be on ebay) Canon T/S lenses.  I will miss them.  And if I will miss the depth of field control they provide on a Canon 1DsII I am worried I will REALLY miss the tilt capability on MFD.  I am hoping the Hartblei manufactured Mamiya Tilt/Shift is released soon and that it is a substantial improvement over the older Hartblei Super Rotator.  Has anyone heard of any prototypes on the street?
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Scott H.
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 08:13:51 AM »
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I'm not sure what you're talking about but the 45 mm PHASE ONE t/s should be available as we speak. As confirmed by Stefan Steib from Hartblei it's NOT based on Zeiss glass unlike their 35mm format lenses.

I had it in my hands last week during a Phase One demo event.

Now I'm not sure if there's also going to be a wide Mamiya T/S. It doesn't seem to make sense when Phase1 already organized one.

Specs:

Phase One 3.5/45 mm Tilt/Shift
Tilt up to 8 (only into one direction but you can rotate it)
Shift 12mm
12 improved shaped Blades
Antireflective coating

The price in Switzerland for it is around 5000 CHF which is roughly around 4 k$

Another tilt/shift will appear next year... I'm not sure about the exact lenght but it was somewhere around 100-120 mm.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 03:30:49 AM by Boris_Epix » Logged
smhoer
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2008, 08:34:54 AM »
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Did you get a chance to test the Phamiya T/S?  Is it a completely new optical formula or the older glass with new coatings (as rumored here a few months back)?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 08:35:16 AM by smhoer » Logged

Scott H.
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2008, 09:04:26 AM »
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I think that this is now beginning to sound like a 'vapourware' product.  As far as I have been told this is a new barrel (looks more contemporary than the Hartblei), but the glass is the same, just with better coating.

I suspect that samples where underwhelming, hence the continued unavailability or announcements.

I left my name+number+email with Phase and Calumet reps in October, and not a whisper more about it.

Look what has happened to the Mamiya wide zoom... also canned.
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2008, 09:47:48 AM »
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What part of "I HAD IT IN MY HAND" don't you understand?

It was mounted on a Phase One 645 camera.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 09:48:13 AM by Boris_Epix » Logged
ixpressraf
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2008, 10:54:59 AM »
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Hi, the 3,5 TS hartblei for phase one is not fitted with Zeiss glass, it is an old Russian stock of Kiev lenses they use for it at this moment.
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amsp
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2008, 11:07:43 AM »
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Didn't Capture Integration do a comparison between the PhaseOne reworked lens and the old Hartblei design a while back? I remember seeing some pretty impressive improvements in image quality.


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ixpressraf
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2008, 11:29:25 AM »
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The phase lenses will absolutely be better. better coating, much more stringent quality control, choice out of hundreds of lens sets. I have had dozens of hartblei TS lenses but only 10 percent was really good. Now that phase has bought the entire stoch they can pic out the best lensses hartblei has to offer.
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2008, 03:33:49 PM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
Hi, the 3,5 TS hartblei for phase one is not fitted with Zeiss glass, it is an old Russian stock of Kiev lenses they use for it at this moment.


Are you sure? Because they say explicitly (at least for the tilt/shift lenses they offer for 35mm format for Canon/Nikon/etc)

Also at this link they are pretty "cut and dry" about what optics they use.
http://www.hartblei.de/en/optics-by-carl-zeiss.htm

Specs straight from PhaseOne:
http://phaseone.com/upload/pressrelease_ph...llaboration.pdf



I don't really care who makes the glass if the quality is decent. The T/S is a handy compromise anyway. If you want utmost quality when requiring movements you'd probably go and knock on Alpa, Sinar, Horseman, etc doors.

If you want to be 100% sure ask this guy if the lenses are made from Zeiss glass... he'll know
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2008, 03:47:10 PM »
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That is the new p45mm TS wich is not for sale yet. this one uses other glass indeed. The one they sold last year simply was the old kiev version.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 03:48:13 PM by ixpressraf » Logged
smhoer
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2008, 04:19:41 PM »
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Any word on when the new one will be released?
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Scott H.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2008, 11:42:00 PM »
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with this lens at 45mm vs the Mamiya's one at 50mm, let me ask, why not the mamiya 50mm ? it is already proven to be a good lens.
Unless it is a 35mm shift for the Mamiya mount, I don't see any reason for moving to the 45mm... for the tilt maybe ?

I've built up a quite a kick ass linhof 69 system with digitar lenses for use with my leaf65 back, with bells like live view, but it is still
too much of an overkill for a commercial guy like me, I would like to get a 35mm to have for occasional use with the Mamiya.
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Boris_Epix
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2008, 03:05:24 AM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
That is the new p45mm TS wich is not for sale yet. this one uses other glass indeed. The one they sold last year simply was the old kiev version.

In fact they are trying to sell that new PhaseOne branded 3.5 45mm ts lens here in Switzerland as we speak and certainly all over the world too. They are advertising it with price tags in print material. I really don't know how you come to strange conclusions such as "That is the new p45mm TS wich is not for sale yet."

Yes the lenses exist and they are for sale now.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 03:32:24 AM by Boris_Epix » Logged
Christopher
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2008, 04:28:25 AM »
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Quote from: Boris_Epix
You have a hard time admitting that you've been wrong... huh? Nobody was talking about old versions.

In fact they are trying to sell that new PhaseOne branded 3.5 45mm ts lens here in Switzerland as we speak and certainly all over the world too. They are advertising it with price tags in print material. I really don't know how you come to strange conclusions such as "That is the new p45mm TS wich is not for sale yet."

Yes the lenses exist and they are for sale now.


Well I can talk from Germany and there no dealer has an idea when Phase will finally shipp the lens .....
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2008, 09:25:33 AM »
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The lenses in the 45 3,5 TS are just the old recoated lenses. Carl Zeiss was untill now not offering any lenses suitable for MF TS. So I am not that wrong. Phase is not saying they use zeiss glass, they just say they use a new coating on kiev lenses.. I have tested all prototype Hartblei lenses from west germany and they certainly have not the needed image circle.
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Evanjoe610
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 10:22:06 AM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
The lenses in the 45 3,5 TS are just the old recoated lenses. Carl Zeiss was untill now not offering any lenses suitable for MF TS. So I am not that wrong. Phase is not saying they use zeiss glass, they just say they use a new coating on kiev lenses.. I have tested all prototype Hartblei lenses from west germany and they certainly have not the needed image circle.


I have been following this ongoing thread regarding the new Hartblei 45mmT/S lens. Please take what I have to pass on with a grain of salt, as the information came from one of the sellers of the original Hartblei equipment and also from another individual at Zeiss USA. The original concept was to use Zeiss glass within the the Hartblei metal housing. That was how  the 40m, 80mm, and 120mm T/S lens were conceived. As it was stated on the Hartblei site, all of the test optics were prototype until it passed Zeiss's standard. The optics delivered to Hartblei was done in a strict fashion with accountability for each individual piece of glass. The input design for the multi bladed aperture going from the usual 6 or 8 blades to 12 blades was at Zeiss's input. The tensile of the metal used and the interior baffling was also part of Zeiss's input.  At the end of the test cycle, Zeiss felt that the lens was not up to their standard, hence so no true production optics were made. Just the prototype sets that Hartblei has on hand for sale, In exchange for this partnership, Hartblei has picked up new design tips from Zeiss such as the multi-bladed aperture, better metallurgy, and better baffling. I am quite sure that there are other improvements that i am not aware of that will be incorporated in to these newer T/S lenses, but the glass optics being used are still the same old ones that they had in storage. The multicoating of the Hartblei are very good and will not be any source of problems if any.

Has anyone here tried the Mamiya 55mm PCS and the Arsat 55mmPCS on their Mamiya 645 Digital? These two lenses are very good, although it doesn't have the tilt feature as the Hartblei.

Evan
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Gigi
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 12:15:41 PM »
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[attachment=10044:Dayton_s...inal_sml.jpg][attachment=10043:stair__b...1_copy_1.
jpg]
Quote from: Evanjoe610
I have been following this ongoing thread regarding the new Hartblei 45mmT/S lens. Please take what I have to pass on with a grain of salt, as the information came from one of the sellers of the original Hartblei equipment and also from another individual at Zeiss USA. The original concept was to use Zeiss glass within the the Hartblei metal housing. That was how  the 40m, 80mm, and 120mm T/S lens were conceived. As it was stated on the Hartblei site, all of the test optics were prototype until it passed Zeiss's standard. The optics delivered to Hartblei was done in a strict fashion with accountability for each individual piece of glass. The input design for the multi bladed aperture going from the usual 6 or 8 blades to 12 blades was at Zeiss's input. The tensile of the metal used and the interior baffling was also part of Zeiss's input.  At the end of the test cycle, Zeiss felt that the lens was not up to their standard, hence so no true production optics were made. Just the prototype sets that Hartblei has on hand for sale, In exchange for this partnership, Hartblei has picked up new design tips from Zeiss such as the multi-bladed aperture, better metallurgy, and better baffling. I am quite sure that there are other improvements that i am not aware of that will be incorporated in to these newer T/S lenses, but the glass optics being used are still the same old ones that they had in storage. The multicoating of the Hartblei are very good and will not be any source of problems if any.

Has anyone here tried the Mamiya 55mm PCS and the Arsat 55mmPCS on their Mamiya 645 Digital? These two lenses are very good, although it doesn't have the tilt feature as the Hartblei.

Evan

Evan -

Thank you for clarifying this. Yours is the first email that makes real sense out of this can-of-worms. I hope your explanation is correct.

Also to be added to the list is the Schneider 55 PCS lens, in both Bronica and Rollei mounts. Its a big lens, heavy, but its pretty good to the edges. Image attached.

Geoff
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 12:34:07 PM by Geoffreyg » Logged

Geoff
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2008, 12:18:08 PM »
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.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 08:33:38 AM by gwhitf » Logged
ixpressraf
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2008, 12:20:26 PM »
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The new hartblei lenses have nothing to do with the old 45mm super rotator. The 40/80/120 uses unused hasselblad stock-lenses. The 45mm that is currently on the market and goes up to MF digital uses russian glass. The new Hartblei.de lenses only fit 35mm cameras as they use zeiss lenses optimised for the hasselbladV camera.
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Evanjoe610
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2008, 02:54:14 PM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
The new hartblei lenses have nothing to do with the old 45mm super rotator. The 40/80/120 uses unused hasselblad stock-lenses. The 45mm that is currently on the market and goes up to MF digital uses russian glass. The new Hartblei.de lenses only fit 35mm cameras as they use zeiss lenses optimised for the hasselbladV camera.
Ixpressraf,

Yes, you are correct in stating that the Zeiss prototype were made for the 35mm Digital/Film system. Again another Yes, to  the use of the  optical glass that Zeiss had sitting around. But this information I believe was stated on the Hartblei.de website. Unfortunately the final product was not up to Zeiss standard.  Thus the limited prototype sets being offered by Hartblei.de.  The newer Hartblei 45mm T/S has been designed with the new improvement as stated, and plus more. The metal optical housing has been redesigned, if one compares it against the the older Hartblei 45 T/S. Otherwise the design is New, but the optical glass is the same unused ones as in the older version.  Only thing is that the MC coating is done by Hartblei. I guess the Zavod Arsenal factory has been closed for at least 2 years or so? Best test wouyld be if one has on available for testing and to compare it against the older version to see what the new improvements are.

Evan
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