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Author Topic: LR & PS colour disparity  (Read 13052 times)
Jim-St
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« on: December 05, 2008, 11:20:36 AM »
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I guess I must have missed something here, as I've never had any problems with LR/PS compatibility in the past... but today, I have an image which I sent from LR2.1 to PSCS3 to add some text layers, and then saved and went back to LR and ran off a print. It  was on the print I first noticed the colour shift that had occurred, but looking at it on the screen it's very noticeable. So I opened the file again in PS, and in PS it looks like it should, whereas in LR it continues to show a greenish tinge in the sky and various other colour shifts. Here's a screen shot of the very same file open simultaneously in PS and LR:


[attachment=10128:Picture_1a.png]

Can anyone suggest what's going on here? I've never seen this sort of thing happen before!

Thanks in anticipation

Jim

PS: My working space in CS3 is ProPhoto RGB and I have 16bit ProPhoto RGB set as Color Space in LR's External Editing Pref
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madmanchan
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 11:25:16 AM »
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How is your monitor calibrated?

What operating system and version are you running?
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Jim-St
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 11:26:53 AM »
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Quote from: madmanchan
How is your monitor calibrated?

What operating system and version are you running?


Monitor re-calibrated today with EyeOne, running OS X 104.11

(Had meant to post this under Lightroom - maybe a moderator can have it moved?

« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 11:28:02 AM by Jim-St » Logged
Jim-St
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 01:40:12 PM »
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I can now fix this, but am still not sure what's going on with it. What seems to happen is this:

1. in LR, pick photo and go Edit in> PSCS3. Choose Edit Original in dialogue

2. in PS, add some text or whatever (no tonal or colour adjustments!), Save As... and Close

3. Back in LR, Sync Folder to bring in file as edited in PS

4. File comes into LR, but colour change is evident

5. Re-send file to PS, and when it opens there colour shift visible in LR is not in evidence

6. Close file in PS and return to LR.  Check Metadata Status in Library Module and click the icon to update metadata. This triggers pop-up saying Metadata has been changed in LR, click OK. No change - colour shift remains

7. Go back into PS and open file via Open Recent...  make slight adjustment and undo it (to force Save command when Closing), then Close file. This triggers warning from PS that the file has been changed on disc and do I want to overwrite - click OK.

8. Go back to LR and again Sync Folder. Colour shift disappears, and pic is now visible (and printable from) within LR without weird colour shift


Maybe someone can explain what's going on here, or what I'm doing wrong.. just seems weird to me, and like I say it never happened before!

Jim
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larkvi
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 08:19:32 AM »
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I don't know what is happening, but with OS 10.4 and Lightroom 1.4 and Photoshop CS, I also lose color fidelity when sending things from Lightroom to Photoshop.
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JoanneMead
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 05:53:16 PM »
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What versions of Adobe Camera Raw are you using?  You may need to update the ACR version you are using in CS3 to the last update available. (v4.6?).

As for CS, the differences between the raw conversion in Lightroom and Photoshop may be quite marked and one program may not be recognising changes made by the other.  I suspect that may be at least part of your problem you chaps are having.  The solution for CS is to export the file as a TIFF before editing in PS.

I hope that helps.

Jo
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Jo

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Jim-St
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2008, 05:09:44 AM »
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Quote from: JoanneMead
What versions of Adobe Camera Raw are you using?  You may need to update the ACR version you are using in CS3 to the last update available. (v4.6?).

Hi Jo-

For myself, I'm using ACR 4.6. Also, I've not experienced any recurrence of this issue, so I guess it just goes down as one of those things that can/ will happen in the digital universe, or else a bug that was quietly fixed in LR 2.2

Maybe larkvi will have something to add to the discussion, but as  far as I'm concerned I think (hope) it's history

Thanks anyway

Jim
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frugal
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 04:40:17 PM »
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Maybe a bit of a longshot, but what colour space are you using in PS? I'm just learning LR but I believe it uses PhotoRGB.

I could see how you might get a colour shift if you have PS set to a different colour space and have it set to automatically adjust to that space. My guess would be that the 2nd forced save as step has PS tag the proper colour space to the file so then when LR opens it up again it does the proper conversion (fixing the colour shift).
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 12:28:11 PM »
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Quote from: frugal
Maybe a bit of a longshot, but what colour space are you using in PS? I'm just learning LR but I believe it uses PhotoRGB.

I could see how you might get a colour shift if you have PS set to a different colour space and have it set to automatically adjust to that space. My guess would be that the 2nd forced save as step has PS tag the proper colour space to the file so then when LR opens it up again it does the proper conversion (fixing the colour shift).

LR's internal space is basically ProPhotoRGB.  If Photoshop is not using ProPhotoRGB as it's working space there is a high likelihood of some color shift if the Photoshop Color Management Settings are to automatically convert when opening and all of the alert boxes are off.  Photoshop would then automatically convert, having to compress and clip colors of the image into the smaller working space.

If the Profile Mismatch Ask When Opening checkbox is on and the working space is not ppRGB, then it could also happen if you choose convert to working space instead of Use Imbedded Profile.

One other thing I remember reading about once is sometimes Photoshop gets messed up knowing what the monitor's profile is. In the color settings dialog, if you click on the RGB working space popup, you should see in the list MonitorRGB followed by your displays current profile as set in the displays preference panel.  You don't select this obviously, but you should confirm PS is using the right profile.  Personally I've never seen this happen, just heard about it, so I don't know what the remedy is if it is wrong.
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Andrew Fee
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 06:22:56 AM »
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This is almost certainly your Photoshop colour settings being set incorrectly. I'm using CS2 rather than CS3 so things might be slightly different.

Go to Edit → Color Settings.
Click on the more options button.
Set your RGB working space to "ProPhoto RGB"
Set Gray to "Gray Gamma 1.8" (ProPhoto uses 1.8—this is not related to what your monitor is set to, it just ensures that you have the same tonality when converting a ProPhoto image to Greyscale)

For colour management policies, set RGB to "Preserve Embedded Profiles"
You may also want to deselect the "ask when opening" boxes for profile mismatches. (leave missing profiles checked, however)

That should now give you matching colour in both applications. Here's my settings for reference:




You might also want to check to see if soft-proofing is on or not (view → proof colors) though I don't think it is from looking at your screenshot.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 06:26:42 AM by Andrew Fee » Logged
Jim-St
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 09:51:50 AM »
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As the OP here, I'm a bit surprised to see the thread has come back to life. For myself, as I noted on 28th Dec 08, I've had no  recurrence of the issue, which I put down to some weird one-off aberration that I'm unable to replicate.

In response to the recent posts: my thanks for your kindness in making suggestions; I do use ProPhoto in PS, and have been using it as my default working space for three or four years now. I have all the Color Management Policies checked to "Ask When Opening", and the "Advanced Controls" unchecked. Other than that, everything is set up on my machine much the same as Andrew Fee's, except I have my Gray space set to Gamma 2.2. If I change that to 1.8, CS3 gives me a warning as shown here (top left corner)

[attachment=11589:Picture_2.png]

Since I only have PS & Bridge of the CS apps, I'm not sure what gives here, but I'm pretty clear this was not what caused the aberration that led me to open this thread...

Andrew's other suggestion - that I might have had soft proofing on - did make me wonder, but in my screen shot you can see "6)" in the bar at the top of the PS image window. And that's the end of the file name/ info string for a 16-bit image in standard (not soft-proofed) view. So not that one either... It remains a mystery, but is not a recurring problem.

So thanks for the suggestions, frugal, Wayne and Andrew, and hopefully someone will find some useful discussion and advice here in the future, but for me this topic is now concluded

Certainly proves that LL Forums are the place to post, though!

Thanks to you all

Jim
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Andrew Fee
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 12:49:56 PM »
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Heh, I didn't even think to check the date. I've been away from the forums here for a while and just saw that it was an "active" topic (near the top of the list with an orange marker next to it) so I thought I'd offer up some suggestions.

Glad to hear that it hasn't happened again, very strange though.

As for your warning with 1.8 gamma, I really only run Photoshop (and it's CS2 so I don't even know if it warns you) so I haven't seen that warning before. The reason I suggested it is because ProPhoto uses 1.8 gamma rather than 2.2, so the image will change tonality if you convert a ProPhoto image to greyscale otherwise. (going from 1.8 to 2.2) Perhaps your other CS apps are using 2.2 though. I'm not sure which would be best for you.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 12:55:29 PM »
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Quote from: Jim-St
Monitor re-calibrated today with EyeOne, running OS X 104.11

Check preferences. LUT or Matrix profile?
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Andrew Rodney
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Jim-St
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 01:48:03 PM »
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Quote from: Andrew Fee
Heh, I didn't even think to check the date. I've been away from the forums here for a while and just saw that it was an "active" topic (near the top of the list with an orange marker next to it) so I thought I'd offer up some suggestions.

Glad to hear that it hasn't happened again, very strange though.

Strange indeed, but fingers x'ed it's a one-off

Quote
As for your warning with 1.8 gamma, I really only run Photoshop (and it's CS2 so I don't even know if it warns you) so I haven't seen that warning before. The reason I suggested it is because ProPhoto uses 1.8 gamma rather than 2.2, so the image will change tonality if you convert a ProPhoto image to greyscale otherwise. (going from 1.8 to 2.2) Perhaps your other CS apps are using 2.2 though. I'm not sure which would be best for you.

That's interesting. I haven't done much B&W, but I recently bought an Epson 3800 so it's something I plan to explore in the coming weeks/ months. I'll keep an eye open for what you describe when I get to that point, and will change to gamma 1.8 then as I don't think I've anything to worry about as I only use the 2 CS apps, PS and Bridge, and I don't think Bridge has CM pref's or Color Settings you can change. In fact, I've never really thought about Bridge's color space...

I see Andrew Rodney's joined in this thread now - maybe he'll be able to enlighten me on the latter point

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Jim-St
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 01:53:06 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Check preferences. LUT or Matrix profile?

Hi Andrew -

I calibrate my display with a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Display, using EyeOneMatch3 software. It has no Prefs dialog, so I'm not sure how to check the profile setting

Jim
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digitaldog
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 01:57:14 PM »
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Quote from: Jim-St
I calibrate my display with a Gretag Macbeth EyeOne Display, using EyeOneMatch3 software. It has no Prefs dialog, so I'm not sure how to check the profile setting

It should....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 01:57:47 PM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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Jim-St
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 02:01:07 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
It should....


Ah, found it, Andrew. Had to connect up the puck to make it appear. It's set up like this:

[attachment=11599:Picture_3.png]
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digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 02:04:47 PM »
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Quote from: Jim-St
Ah, found it, Andrew. Had to connect up the puck to make it appear. It's set up like this:

[attachment=11599:Picture_3.png]


OK, recalibrate and try Large. Any change
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Andrew Rodney
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Jim-St
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 02:22:51 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
OK, recalibrate and try Large. Any change


I've done that, and no major change, just the usual minor shifts. But I'll use the LUT setting in future. Thanks for the steer.

My original issue somehow solved itself, and will, I think, remain a mystery...

Can you comment on Andrew Fee's suggestion above re Gray Gamma setting and grayscale conversions in ProPhoto RGB??

Thanks for you time

Jim
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digitaldog
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 02:26:59 PM »
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Quote from: Jim-St
Can you comment on Andrew Fee's suggestion above re Gray Gamma setting and grayscale conversions in ProPhoto RGB??

Its a good idea to match the gray gamma to the working space in color settings yes assuming you're converting from ProPhoto RGB to a grayscale file, otherwise, doesn't matter.

Quote
I've done that, and no major change, just the usual minor shifts. But I'll use the LUT setting in future.

So you've got this set to V2 or V4? And you're comparing the two previews in both applications at 100% or larger?
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Andrew Rodney
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