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Author Topic: 5D Movie mode  (Read 9842 times)
marcmccalmont
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« on: December 05, 2008, 08:06:16 PM »
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Am I understanding the manual correctly that in the movie mode you cannot set an aperture to change depth of field, that it always shoots at the lenses max aperture?
Can you adjust exposure? I'm confused
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
Nick Rains
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2008, 07:12:08 PM »
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Quote from: marcmccalmont
Am I understanding the manual correctly that in the movie mode you cannot set an aperture to change depth of field, that it always shoots at the lenses max aperture?
Can you adjust exposure? I'm confused
Marc
It does not use max aperture all the time.

It seems to use an odd program which tries to keep the shutter speed between 30th and 125th by varying the ISO and the aperture. if you use it in full sunlight you'll probably get F16 @125th @ 200ISO, indoors it might be 30th F2 and ISO3200. I'm still getting to grips with this, but you can adjust exposure using the exp comp dial, this seems to change ISO rather than aperture or shutter speed.

The auto metering also seems to change apertures in big jumps ie F5.6 to F16 or F5.6 to F2. I intend to find out more over the coming week...
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Nick Rains
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bcooter
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 10:33:00 AM »
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Quote from: Nick Rains
It does not use max aperture all the time.

It seems to use an odd program which tries to keep the shutter speed between 30th and 125th by varying the ISO and the aperture. if you use it in full sunlight you'll probably get F16 @125th @ 200ISO, indoors it might be 30th F2 and ISO3200. I'm still getting to grips with this, but you can adjust exposure using the exp comp dial, this seems to change ISO rather than aperture or shutter speed.

The auto metering also seems to change apertures in big jumps ie F5.6 to F16 or F5.6 to F2. I intend to find out more over the coming week...


I don't know if there is a technical reason for this or a marketing reason, actually I don't care, but it's a dumb ass move to make any camera that doesn't allow you control of the shutter, f stop and iso.

The indie market has been waiting forever for a digital video camera that offered a frame size large and detailed enough to select focus and artistically make a decision on where you want the viewers attention to be focused and at first I thought the 5dII would be it, but unless there is something in the submenus that let's us overide these auto functions, mine is going back to the dealer.

As it stands now, the only way I know to even gain some control over the MarkII is to use Nikon manual lenses and carry a box of nd filters for each lens, which is really stupid when you think about it, because all this has done is make a 5dII user go onto KEH and buy Nikon lenses rather than new Canon lenses.

At least the little Nikon N90 using manual lenses, let's you select F stop with a fixed shutter speed, even though the rolling shutter and jello cam is a big pain in the ass.

For too long, in both stills and motion, camera makers have held back protecting one cameras market from another camera and at this stage of the economy and at this point in technology they need to stop it.

If Canon wants to offer a mark II/video version that allows us to make the cameras decisions and charge another $1,000 or more then fine, do that, but don't offer video then hold back on usability, because we're all tired of this incremental marketing approach.

I don't know where RED is on the scarlet and I do find it somewhat refreshing that the owner of the company actually answers questions and gives honest responses and I hope their next round of cameras does everything they advertise (though that seems to change weekly), especially since the new cameras seem to be on a modular path, so as improvements come to market you don't have to throw away the whole camera.

I hope RED blows them all out of the water.
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jjj
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 11:11:17 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
I don't know if there is a technical reason for this or a marketing reason?

Marketing.
It's no more than a firmware decision, just like allowing Video into camera in first place. It was always possible, just never done.
I think all P+S cameras can do video, but that's becacuse they are not seen as competition to the serious video cameras that cost lots of money, that Canon also make. You can shoot RAW or add other features on many Canon P+S cameras too,  just by tweaking firmware.


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I hope RED blows them all out of the water.
Seconded.
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chounws
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 11:32:58 PM »
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Quote from: marcmccalmont
Am I understanding the manual correctly that in the movie mode you cannot set an aperture to change depth of field, that it always shoots at the lenses max aperture?
Can you adjust exposure? I'm confused
Marc

let learn form this link......http://www.vimeo.com/2530166....Mr. Fong did quite good for 5d2 movie mode understanding..
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 04:07:27 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
As it stands now, the only way I know to even gain some control over the MarkII is to use Nikon manual lenses and carry a box of nd filters for each lens, which is really stupid when you think about it, because all this has done is make a 5dII user go onto KEH and buy Nikon lenses rather than new Canon lenses.

Why would you need ND's any more with the nikon lenses than with canon? If you select the aperture on your nikon lens then the camera will change the iso to suit until you run out of low iso when you would need ND's even with a canon lens. Added to that the nikon manual lenses probably have far better focus throws given that manual focus is pretty much a must anyway. Whether or not canon have been stupid (as usual), the tool which corrects the problem is probably a better tool in the first place anyway is it not?
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jjj
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 07:28:16 AM »
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Why would you need ND's any more with the nikon lenses than with canon? If you select the aperture on your nikon lens then the camera will change the iso to suit until you run out of low iso when you would need ND's even with a canon lens. Added to that the nikon manual lenses probably have far better focus throws given that manual focus is pretty much a must anyway. Whether or not canon have been stupid (as usual), the tool which corrects the problem is probably a better tool in the first place anyway is it not?
Filmaking is not the same as photography. ND filters are a normal part of any cinematographer's kit, some cameras have them built in. Why? To be able to contol aperture.
Why not change ISO/Shutter speed instead is the next question? Consistency of look and subsequent ease of grading [timing] when editing is why you tend to keep ISO constant for a single scene and changing shutter speed also changes look of footage, with high shutter speeds creating choppy/stroby images - which can look good at times, but not normally suitable for normal usage.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 11:47:29 AM »
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Forgive my ignorance but what has the shutter got to do with video? My point on ND's was that they would be needed anyway which I think is what you are saying.
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jjj
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2008, 05:12:59 PM »
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Quote from: pom
Forgive my ignorance but what has the shutter got to do with video?
You can shoot video/film at different shutter speeds just like with stills and it also affects exposure in same way, though as I mentioned above you don't tend to vary shutter speed very often as it also affects look of footage - not usually in a 'nice' way if using higher speeds.

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My point on ND's was that they would be needed anyway which I think is what you are saying.
Yup - I was simply clarifying the point of why NDs are used, when shooting video/film.
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bcooter
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2009, 12:59:39 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
You can shoot video/film at different shutter speeds just like with stills and it also affects exposure in same way, though as I mentioned above you don't tend to vary shutter speed very often as it also affects look of footage - not usually in a 'nice' way if using higher speeds.

Yup - I was simply clarifying the point of why NDs are used, when shooting video/film.


The whole process is really insane.  Either offer usable video on the 5d or not, it's just not that difficult to have a auto setting or a manual setting.

Anyone that shoots motiion knows to have a box full of ND filters, it's just part of keeping the look continuous, and continuous in motion is very important, but to intentionally limit the camera and require taping off
lens contcts, pointing at dark  cards, then tring to adjust is just another workaround that shouldn't be needed.

Actually, except for the jello cam of a whip pan, the Nikon n90 does a better job that the 5d in the fact that it keeps a constant shutter.  Yes the ISO changes but rarely will you run a high iso shot mixed in with a low iso shot so it won't be that obvious.

Canon makes no sense on this one, other than to intentionally try to protect some dying market of ENG's and those tin chipped prosumer cameras.

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