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Author Topic: Leaked Canon 5D spec sheet..  (Read 21601 times)
BernardLanguillier
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« on: August 10, 2005, 12:00:38 AM »
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Canon should better hurry, because the D200 is just around the corner, and many a fortune teller are predicting that it will feature the same sensor as the D2x in a sub 3000 US$ package...

More seriously, the new Canon will probably not be FF. It will more likely be 1.6 crop factor so as to be compatible with the latest APS Canon lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2005, 09:25:45 AM »
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So what's the problem? You don't shoot portraits with a wide angle lens, do you?

No, neither do I have the room to stand back enough to use a 85/100mm portrait lens when the camera is cropping it for me. I don't want the DOF of a 40mm lens (long end of 17-40) eventhough it's pretending to be a 70mm! When I'm shooting with a 50mm lens at f4 I get the same DOF of a 50mm lens at f4 eventhough it's pretending to be a 80mm. If I want the DOF and look of an 85mm lens at f4 I don't want to be forced to step backwards!!!

No major disadvantage? How can you qualify that statement over the entire spectrum of photography? If FF really wasn't an advantage then the 1Ds mkII wouldn't be selling, instead of still being waiting list and the D2X would have taken over the market which it has completely failed to do, whatever the praise.

There is no wide angle 24-70L equivalent in the canon lineup, the 17-40 isn't as long or wide and is a stop slower, the 16-35 is even worse for the long end. The 24-70 range is there for a reason, it is an incredibly versatile 'normal' zoom. No wide angle equivelent is as versatile, as sharp and as flare free to carry out the same job.
That's not including the crop viewfinder, however bright, the far too big AF points that don't allow precise AF (Canon admit to using the same size AF sensors in the 1D as the 1Ds, hence the sensor is covering a larger area).

Is Edge Sharpness really an excuse? I would put my 24-70L on FF against the 16-35 on a 1.6X crop, same FOV, any day. I can garuantee you which will win sharpness wise, if you take it outdoors on a sunny day then you might as well not bother.

I'll repeat, the nearest equivelent to the 24-70L in 1.6X crop is a 17-40L. Eventhough the long end 'looks' like a 70mm, I couldn't use that for portraiture or pictures that need shallow DOF , period. That to me is an incredible disadvantage.

A crop sensor may be better for landscapes though I don't buy it coming from Med Format, but for me and apparently hosts of photographers still shooting film or using FF cameras, the crop is more bother than it's worth.
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Ray
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2005, 03:14:36 AM »
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I like to do alot of candid photography.
Fair enough! No need to get your knickers in a twist.  Smiley
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its_tom
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 05:54:08 AM »
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I'd be nice to shoot with it handhold with a heavy telephoto lense in portrait-orientation. You'd be flushed with liquids, sex money and pizze.  :p  Cheesy
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 04:19:53 PM »
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As indicated in my post, I was talking about only the professional and prosumer DSLR market, not the "average consumer". All kinds of stuff will be made for "average consumers" because there is such a large diversity of taste around the "average".
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Ray
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 02:18:09 AM »
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I think that it's worth pointing out that with a FF sensor you can achieve a cropped result, while on a cropped sensor you can't recover the lost data.
I understand your point completely. A full frame D2X would be a 28MP camera and the only advantage the cropped 12MP version would have would be with regard to weight and portability. The 28MP version could never produce worse image quality under any circumstances with the same lenses, but could and would most of the time produce superior image quality.

Ultimately, the larger the format the greater the potential for higher image quality. But at what cost?
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Ray
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2005, 02:12:02 AM »
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Sorry! I've spoilt it for you. This film raised the hackles on my neck, which is why I mentioned it.
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Ray
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2005, 09:57:42 AM »
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I would say that the rumoured 5D price of around 3,600 euro (about Au$6,000 for Ray's benefit), would still leave 24x36mm digital format solidly in the realm of "the professional and ... the most enthusiastic and well-heeled amateur".
Welcome back BJL  Smiley .

I would say a drop in price from A$14,000 for the original FF (1Ds) when it first arrived on these shores, to A$6000 for the third Canon FF model represents a 'crumbling'  Cheesy .
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budjames
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2005, 07:44:01 PM »
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Gee, what a surprise! Canon is coming out with a new DSLR!

Like this should be a surprise to anyone? It'a about out engineering and out producing the competition (Nikon et. al.)

I pesonally love being a longtime Canon devote. My first camera was a Canon TLb back in the early 1970's. It took about 12 years for them to come up with a significant model change, the switch to the "AE" series bodies with auto exposure.

I just got my 1Ds MkII to compliment my 20D. I'm taking them both to Ireland this weekend for 10 days of shooting. I cna't wait.

Bud James
North Wales, PA
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Bud James
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2005, 05:34:10 PM »
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Why step backwards to less than half the megapixels (big groups at weddings + big prints for walls), supposedly not great noise characteristics and lose money on all my canon gear. Plus my one remaining Elan II would cease to be my backup camera, can't use the lenses.

I don't like 4/3rds anyway, give me a 7X5 sensor now....

NPS 35mm film printed well and assuming good technique comes close to the 1Ds resolution wise on a 18X12" print, nevermind the unobtrusive grain. My 10D was incredibly clean but couldn't out resolve Provia from my experience. An E-1 would not be good enough I'm afraid.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2005, 04:26:08 AM »
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Just got a chance to see the  DPreview of the D2x, d-mn, I didn't realise that they have a dial or switch for every single important function, I absolutely hate Canon's reliance on buttons that need you to take your eye from the viewfinder. With the 1 series they say it's for waterproofing but there is no excuse for needing two hands (unless your very supple) to change to AI Servo while looking away from the viewfinder on the other bodies. The 5D having a mode dial is very welcome after the two handed 'button press twiddle dial 3 times' to change from 'M' to 'Av'.
My film backup is an Elan II which has a dial or switch for almost every function, I really loved using that camera....
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mhecker
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2005, 05:31:39 PM »
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A copy of the Canon 5D spec sheet has been leaked on the NET at http://alex.netfun.ro/Canon5D-specs.pdf   .

The document properties for that PDF in Acrobat Pro 7: show

Author: Jim Bowes of Cayenne Communications
Manager: Mariska van Geel

Creation Date: 8th August @ 11:49:13+02:00 (that matches NL where Cayenne are based - http://www.cayenne.nl)
Modification Date: 8th August @ 11:50:52+02:00
Keywords: D92 DVD Recorder (huh?)

Cayenne communications created the European marketing materials for the EOS 20D.  

and

If you go to http://www.gepir.org/client.htm

and do an EAN13 GTIN lookup on the 5D code from the brochure (4960999295770) it will give you the address of the company that owns that particular barcode. It's in Japanese, but here is Canon Japan's address in English:
CANON inc. Shimomaruko. 3-302,. Ohtaku, Tokyo 1468501, Japan.

Very interesting...    
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2005, 11:57:31 PM »
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I'm a bit skeptical, the body could very well be a lightly-Photoshopped 10D; the only thing that looks different is the nameplate and the flash shoe area. The whole English/Spanish mix is simply bizarre, a real document would not have the tech specifications in English and the headings in Spanish, it would all be one or the other. There may be something of the sort in the works, but I highly doubt this is any kind of official spec document.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2005, 11:10:13 AM »
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BTW, I have no doubt that Micheal is finding this stuff highly amusing. Whatever camera is to be announced on the 23rd has probably already had its writeup done....
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wsymington
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2005, 01:55:58 AM »
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Pom,

I just wanted to compliment you on your photo of Dettifoss. I have seen many pictures of it and yours is the only one Ive seen that makes it look attractive.

Its a grim old place most of the time, but you had luck with the light, and clearly applied good technique to it.

W
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2005, 07:37:39 AM »
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Ray, I still don't understand how this camera is in any way a comparison to the D2X. It's a 20D body with a bigger chip and spot metering. It's not dust or water proof, it doesn't have a top level AF, a strong 'take anywhere' body, etc, etc. If people are going to compare and contrast these two bodies based on chip size and noise levels alone then they are seriously missing the point of what a pro level body is meant to be. Even if this body was to have 16 megapixels I doubt the majority of of 1Ds mkII shooters would swop unless they bought that camera for pixel count only and shoot tethered to a studio and nowhere else.
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jani
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2005, 03:53:28 AM »
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I think that it's worth pointing out that with a FF sensor you can achieve a cropped result, while on a cropped sensor you can't recover the lost data.
I understand your point completely.
I also understand the point (I think), but I don't agree.

The image is in no way cropped on my 20D; in fact, the image that's stored has a wider FOV than what I see through my viewfinder. I hope most competent SLR photographers base their composition on what's in the viewfinder!

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A full frame D2X would be a 28MP camera and the only advantage the cropped 12MP version would have would be with regard to weight and portability.
And price, I suppose.

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The 28MP version could never produce worse image quality under any circumstances with the same lenses, but could and would most of the time produce superior image quality.
No, that doesn't make sense. Why would it produce superior image quality? It would produce images with greater FOV at the same focal length, but I don't see how that equates to "higher quality".

With the same lens, it changes what you see and how you compose, just like it would if you simply changed lenses. But that doesn't translate to "higher quality", either.
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Jan
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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2005, 03:13:37 PM »
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I don't agree that smaller sensors will only be a part of a small niche market in the future. While I agree and hope that full frame sensors will be commonplace eventually I am pretty confident that there will continue to be a large market for cameras with the smaller sensors. The average consumer has no clue about the different sized sensors and wouldn't care anyway. They will still want compact cameras and many will still want the compact super-zoom cameras. These can only be achieved by using the smaller sensors. I imagine it will settle into only two or three sensor sizes, basically small, medium, and full frame.

T
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scott kirkpatrick
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2005, 02:10:02 AM »
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Lord of the Rings (LOTR) is actually chock-full of interesting perspective effects.  It had to be, in order to to make Gimli the dwarf (the actor is actually over 6 feet tall) and the hobbits look much smaller than they are in reality.  They used trick set constructions to reinforce the illusions of scale, as well as wide angle lenses.  The extra material in the fancy DVD editions goes into a lot of detail on the post processing involved.  Imagine doing PP on 24 frames per second for 12 hours of film.

scott
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2005, 07:53:29 PM »
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Pom, I did some homework on eBay and found that since last October the average value of a used 1Ds has declined from the 4500 USD range (+/- a few hundred) to 3800~4000USD; there has not been much momentum over the past couple of weeks and not many cameras listed or sold - in fact the data sample is rather thin. I think the value of the camera was expected to start falling from the time 1DsMk11, then Nikon D2X hit the market, so no surprises, and the value drop has not been all that remarkable over the 9 month period.

No matter how good they are, all these cameras will devalue given the high rate of technical change in this still maturing product line. I think when we buy them we resign ourselves to the facts that better ones are around the corner and the value of legacy models will drop, but we buy anyhow thinking it will be good enough for our purposes over some indeterminate time into the future. (Perhaps the time gets more "determinate" as the new stuff starts tempting us!)

People who buy a 5D may not GENERALLY be in the same market niche as people who buy a 1Ds, and the supply of used 1Ds bodies on the market seems to be less copious now than it was at the time the 1DsMk11 came out and 1Ds owners immediately up-graded, hence the rate of value decline may not accelerate very much with the new non-1D series models coming onto the market - but that is a hypothesis - it could be wrong.

All that said, you are generally pointed in the right direction assuming the sooner you sell the more money you will get for it. I'm waiting for that wished-for future model that doesn't need an AA filter. Then I move real fast.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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