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Author Topic: Michael are you still usiong the m8  (Read 7109 times)
dseelig
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« on: December 17, 2008, 01:38:49 PM »
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From what I have read I would probably love the sony 900 but I am fixed in Canon and Leica. Just wondering if these 21 and 24 mg and have spoiled you away from the Leica. Also how much work does your hasselblad get these days? For me the small size of the Leica is sometimes impossible to replace I regard 1d series cameras as assignment cameras and the 5d mk11 which I own as a tweener both assignment and camera to have whenever. Hope everyone is having a good holiday season . David
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 01:41:19 PM by dseelig » Logged
ndevlin
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 04:54:42 PM »
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I'll let Michael speak for himself, but I sold mine recently, and don't miss it.  Frankly, the Canon G10 is way more versatile and useful to me, and the 5D2 demolishes it for IQ in every conceivable way.  

The M8's problems were poor framing, unresponsive shooting, and mediocre high-speed quality.  The G10 has amazing optical quality (especially for a $500 camera) and with good image stabilization is usable in much lower light than the M8.

While many people will continue to produce fine work with the M8, for me, technology has overtaken it.

(and I love my rangefinders....a lot!)

- N.

ps. did I mention the G10 is *silent*?
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Nick Devlin   @onelittlecamera
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 05:33:39 PM »
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I sold my M8 - bizarrely after I bought a 1DsMk3. I found I just wasn't using the M8 so sold it. When I want a small camera I often pick up the Canon 5D with a 50mm lens or, increasingly, the Canon G10 and just love it.

Having seen relatively little progress (in my opinion...) in Leica rangefinder technology and the outrageous price hikes, I'm delighted to have got off that wagon. Whilst I really enjoyed using my M8 and small lens collection, I haven't missed using it at all. I still admire the lens quality though and maybe, just maybe, Panasonic will one day put a lens on a compact camera that draws the same way as the 35mm f2 Summicron ASPH does...


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Pete Truman
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 05:51:51 PM »
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I haven't sold my M8 (yet), but I use it hardly at all.

I'm waiting for the Leica M lens adaptor for the Panasonic G1 so I can use my wonderful Leica glass again.

Michael
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2008, 07:47:09 PM »
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Quote from: michael
I haven't sold my M8 (yet), but I use it hardly at all.

I'm waiting for the Leica M lens adaptor for the Panasonic G1 so I can use my wonderful Leica glass again.

Michael

I'm with Michael on this one. I've had an M8 for two years. I have captured some great moments with this camera and I still believe the size and manual focusing beat any DSLR, but...Leica has not been forthcoming with the problems (not that I personally have had any) and it now appears that Leica's statements of the past in regards to the update-ability of the body may have been misleading. And with a new price increase, cost prohibitive. I will not give up my film M or the wonderful lenses, but the M8 may have to find a new home.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2008, 01:57:48 AM »
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Quote from: JohnBrew
I'm with Michael on this one. I've had an M8 for two years. I have captured some great moments with this camera and I still believe the size and manual focusing beat any DSLR, but...Leica has not been forthcoming with the problems (not that I personally have had any) and it now appears that Leica's statements of the past in regards to the update-ability of the body may have been misleading. And with a new price increase, cost prohibitive. I will not give up my film M or the wonderful lenses, but the M8 may have to find a new home.


If it doesn't move and I have a truck full of lights I use the Phase/contax.

If it slightly moves or I need medium 400 iso, it's the Canon's 1ds3.



If it moves a lot or I need higher iso, and fast accurate focus, The Nikons.

 



If it's only for me, the leica m8





Bottom line is 60% of everything I do the 1ds3 will do very well, 20% the Nikon can mean the difference from getting the shot or getting nothing, but if I didn't have the little Leica it would break my heart.



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httivals
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2008, 02:06:11 AM »
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I haven't owned an M8 but have been sorely tempted many times.  But since I got the G10, I've had the same thought as below -- not that I have the experience of having used an m8 -- but that for what I'd want an m8 for the G10 does a great job.  . . .  And now that DXO will be supporting the G10 come January 09 (just announced) it should improve the iso (and sharpness) by a stop or two -- that's been my experience with DXO Optics Pro with the Canon 5D I at least, that 3200 is marginal when converting with Lightroom, but when converting with DXO Optics Pro it's as good as, or better than iso 1600 is with Lightroom on the 5D.  It should make the G10 excellent at iso 400, which is enough for my uses.

Quote from: ndevlin
I'll let Michael speak for himself, but I sold mine recently, and don't miss it.  Frankly, the Canon G10 is way more versatile and useful to me, and the 5D2 demolishes it for IQ in every conceivable way.  

The M8's problems were poor framing, unresponsive shooting, and mediocre high-speed quality.  The G10 has amazing optical quality (especially for a $500 camera) and with good image stabilization is usable in much lower light than the M8.

While many people will continue to produce fine work with the M8, for me, technology has overtaken it.

(and I love my rangefinders....a lot!)

- N.

ps. did I mention the G10 is *silent*?
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canlogic
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2008, 10:20:49 AM »
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I have and use a 1DMKIII, a 1DSMKIII an M8 and a G10. The G10 is a great little pocket camera but can't touch the M8. The 1D I use for birding so can't compare. The 1DS and M8 I have a tough time deciding between the 2, each is better for some things.
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1dmkIII, some lenses, Epson 7880, iMac, Leica M8, other stuff
JohnBrew
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2008, 01:20:59 PM »
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[Bottom line is 60% of everything I do the 1ds3 will do very well, 20% the Nikon can mean the difference from getting the shot or getting nothing, but if I didn't have the little Leica it would break my heart.
[/quote]

Thank you, James for your heartfelt comment. I feel the same way, but my old M3 is the one that would break my heart. Anyway, (you're gonna love this) my wife absolutely refuses to let me get rid of the M8!! I took an iconic image of her once with it, so she feels a special kinship with that body. Go figure.
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dseelig
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2008, 02:23:01 PM »
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Well Michael
 I am glad you are remembering the advice you once gave in an early M8 article to never sell Leica glass. I was in new Orleans the M8 was my low light camera with my 35 lux and 75 lux. the canon mk11 was my no light camera with a 24 and 50 f1.4 . Enjoy shooting everyone what ever you use.
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Plekto
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2008, 03:14:44 PM »
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Quote from: JohnBrew
[Bottom line is 60% of everything I do the 1ds3 will do very well, 20% the Nikon can mean the difference from getting the shot or getting nothing, but if I didn't have the little Leica it would break my heart.


Thank you, James for your heartfelt comment. I feel the same way, but my old M3 is the one that would break my heart. Anyway, (you're gonna love this) my wife absolutely refuses to let me get rid of the M8!! I took an iconic image of her once with it, so she feels a special kinship with that body. Go figure.

It reminds me of the old adage:  Q: What's the most important camera?  A: The one that you have with you.  It's still why I use my small range finder on most personal trips.  It fits in my pocket and doesn't need batteries, cards, or other idiocy.

Edit - yes, it technically has a battery - but the little watch battery for the finder last months.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 03:17:37 PM by Plekto » Logged
John Camp
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2008, 06:47:49 PM »
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Quote from: michael
I haven't sold my M8 (yet), but I use it hardly at all.

I'm waiting for the Leica M lens adaptor for the Panasonic G1 so I can use my wonderful Leica glass again.

Michael

I've been sorely tempted to sell my M8. The image quality doesn't really compare anymore _ a D3 does everything better, except be small. I haven't sold out yet because I keep thinking that there will be a G1-type camera worthy of the glass (whether it's the G1 or not, I don't know) or that Leica will actually produce a modern camera (the M8-II is like some kind of subtle German joke.) And as the M8 gets older and older, it becomes worth less and less, thus making me think I might as well hold onto it for a while longer, since I wouldn't get that much for it anyway...Eventually, I suspect it'll be like one of those M3s that people find in an attic when grandpa dies, and they take it down to the local camera shop and somebody offers them $40 and says the shutter is sticky...

But then, maybe the M9 will be an act of genius and wit, and I will thank my lucky stars that I never sold the glass.

JC
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James R Russell
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2008, 09:49:54 AM »
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Quote from: John Camp
I've been sorely tempted to sell my M8. The image quality doesn't really compare anymore _ a D3 does everything better, except be small. I haven't sold out yet because I keep thinking that there will be a G1-type camera worthy of the glass (whether it's the G1 or not, I don't know) or that Leica will actually produce a modern camera (the M8-II is like some kind of subtle German joke.) And as the M8 gets older and older, it becomes worth less and less, thus making me think I might as well hold onto it for a while longer, since I wouldn't get that much for it anyway...Eventually, I suspect it'll be like one of those M3s that people find in an attic when grandpa dies, and they take it down to the local camera shop and somebody offers them $40 and says the shutter is sticky...

But then, maybe the M9 will be an act of genius and wit, and I will thank my lucky stars that I never sold the glass.

JC

Sometimes you get to the point, at least I have, that you step back from all of the digital upgrades and pixel staring and say it doesn't matter if the photograph is pretty.

Shooting for a client that has 200% computer view expectations is one thing, shooting for yourself is another.  

We have different expectations with digital than we did with film (most of them not good) in that we pull these things up on screen at huge percetages and start judging sharpness, noise, ca in minute detail and actually we never really did that with film, at least not to the same extent.  Also when we scanned film and saw grain (noise) nobody lost thier mind we just said, film is what it is.

That's the way I see the M-8, it is what it is.  I know technically, the Nikon, Canons are superior but from the standpoint of art, or vision or whatever you want to call it I think the M-8 is out of this world.

In fact everything people want corrected I don't.  Frame lines, higher iso, it's always a guess, but it's a nice guess.  Shooting a frame and looking on the lcd is kind of like going to the lab.  It always looks a little different than what you expected.

There is just certain things the leica makes you do that look different than most digital cameras. Maybe it is the lenses, or just working through a rangefinder, but it doesn't matter if you like it.

There is also something unique about the size and weight of the camera.  It's small but not tiny, it's solid but not overwhelming, it's unobtrusive but the subject seems to understand that it's a professional camera and the photograph is important. That leica red dot probably carries more weight than any camera I own.  I find it really interesting that from the famous to the unknown, if you pull out the m-8 almost to a person they smile and say oh, a leica.

I am not a walk around photographer, though I do carry the leica some, not a lot but some and with this in mind I thought about getting a G-10.  I held one the other day and it seemed too small and too plastic toy like.  I'm sure it's a good camera, but I just couldn't get past the feel of the camera and have a hard time taking it seriously.

Not that the m-8 and the G-10 are after the same market, but I do know if every camera I own was stolen tomorrow, the Canon 1ds3's  would be the first thing I would have to replace to earn a living, but the leica would be the first camera I would buy.

Logic isn't the most important element of photography.

The M-8 is not a camera that makes logical sense, unless you own it and see the results.





I do know that I see the world different through the leica and I shoot in a different style, I can't explain it but I see it and that is all that matters to me.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 09:59:16 AM by James R Russell » Logged

JohnBrew
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2008, 11:22:34 AM »
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[quote name='James R Russell' date='Dec 20 2008, 10:49 AM' post='245935']
Sometimes you get to the point, at least I have, that you step back from all of the digital upgrades and pixel staring and say it doesn't matter if the photograph is pretty.

Shooting for a client that has 200% computer view expectations is one thing, shooting for yourself is another.  

We have different expectations with digital than we did with film (most of them not good) in that we pull these things up on screen at huge percetages and start judging sharpness, noise, ca in minute detail and actually we never really did that with film, at least not to the same extent.  Also when we scanned film and saw grain (noise) nobody lost thier mind we just said, film is what it is.

That's the way I see the M-8, it is what it is.  I know technically, the Nikon, Canons are superior but from the standpoint of art, or vision or whatever you want to call it I think the M-8 is out of this world.

In fact everything people want corrected I don't.  Frame lines, higher iso, it's always a guess, but it's a nice guess.  Shooting a frame and looking on the lcd is kind of like going to the lab.  It always looks a little different than what you expected.

There is just certain things the leica makes you do that look different than most digital cameras. Maybe it is the lenses, or just working through a rangefinder, but it doesn't matter if you like it.

There is also something unique about the size and weight of the camera.  It's small but not tiny, it's solid but not overwhelming, it's unobtrusive but the subject seems to understand that it's a professional camera and the photograph is important. That leica red dot probably carries more weight than any camera I own.  I find it really interesting that from the famous to the unknown, if you pull out the m-8 almost to a person they smile and say oh, a leica.

Logic isn't the most important element of photography.
The M-8 is not a camera that makes logical sense, unless you own it and see the results."

Nicely stated, James. 80% of the images on my website were taken with the M8. The camera like all other Leica's before, has served me well.
www.johnbrewton.zenfolio.com
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 11:23:05 AM by JohnBrew » Logged

canlogic
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2008, 04:10:47 PM »
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Nice shots James.

I spent a week in Maine during October shooting moose. I shot mostly with a 1DMKIII and long lenses, a 1DSMKIII with a 70-200 and the M8. Surprisingly many of what I think were my best shots were with the M8 even though you wouldn't think of it as a wildlife camera. I often do 24x30 prints on an Epson 7880 and they truly stand up as well as those from the Canons. I even find shots up to iso 1250 good as long as they are properly exposed.
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jjj
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2008, 12:06:26 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
I do know that I see the world different through the leica and I shoot in a different style, I can't explain it but I see it and that is all that matters to me.
Some people say you can replicate most camera's look/feel etc in say PS. What they completely fail to realise the way in which you shoot, which is down to a camera's quirks, strengths and limitations canot be replicated in post.
And the post above by Plekto that commented that the most important camera is the one you have with you is spot on and is why I bought a Ricoh over the Canon. The Ricoh fits in my pocket, the Canon doesn't and I like to have a camera with me all the time and a compact camera that doesn't fit on pocket is a waste of time [for me].
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wildlightphoto
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2008, 08:35:00 PM »
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From the perspective of a 5DII and M8 user:

http://leica-users.org/v38/msg05517.html
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yoni
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 06:28:19 AM »
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My or my. James, your imagery is always inspiring. Wish we would see your personal work more frequently.
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Yoram from Berlin
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2008, 02:29:49 AM »
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Like a lot of people in this thread, my M8 allows me to shoot in ways my big SLRs don't.

I have the original Canon 5D, and love it because I can get wonderful shots of my three children with Auto-Focus - a father's best friend.

For my urban landscape work I use a 1Ds Mk III - I evaluated a number of digital MFs, but found the big Canon to be good enough for me, esp. in light of the amount of lenses I already own for the EOS series.

...but trips to Saigon or Phnom Penh are easier with an M8 than a big fat SLR. The lack of zoom or AF makes me interact with my subjects very differently, and I get more interesting shots.
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Baxter
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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 05:24:27 AM »
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Thanks for all the interesting viewpoints on this thread. The M8 has a certain enduring and appealing quality about it. I too find that the images I produce from mine are different in character from my D700 and funnily enough my 5x4!

I would be interested to see what software M8 users now prefer to process their DNGs.
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