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Author Topic: Can Mamiya 645 AF lenses (especially the zooms) resove 39mp?  (Read 14191 times)
thsinar
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« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2008, 03:56:02 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
BTW It was NOT user error only...
Facts, Mr. Mancuso: again you do make claims of a product not working and do not want to give details to let the concerned person (me) answer. Exactly the same attitude when I asked for these very same facts for this very same case on your place. What did you do? You simply deleted my post and questions, explaining me privately that I have nothing to ask and you have not to justify your claims.

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
and i never attacked the Sinar product
 

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
I have no bias towards anything
 

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
You have no facts about anything just assumptions.
I have them, not just assumptions.

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
BTW we have leica also support our workshops and Leaf wants to also, Sinar did in our lighting workshop ...
I am sorry to deny this: Sinar did NEVER support your workshops, may be SBI with lighting equipment, but not Sinar. Be precise and get your facts, please.

Thierry

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Thierry Hagenauer
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csp
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« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2008, 03:56:18 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I have shot with both the 120 lenses on the Hasselblad & Mamiya ( not the D lens ) & there about the same. Really you are comparing Fugi vrs Mamiya here. I have shot billboards with the old Mamiya 80mm lens along with the old 150mm, very sharp. Each to their own & there has been plenty of debate over Hasselblad vrs Mamiya over the years.
Denis

fuji has a great reputation as lens maker.  the question is also what is the benchmark 22mpx, 31, 50...60 ?
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csp
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« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2008, 04:12:06 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Facts, Mr. Mancuso: again you do make claims of a product not working and do not want to give details to let the concerned person (me) answer. Exactly the same attitude when I asked for these very same facts for this very same case on your place. What did you do? You simply deleted my post and questions, explaining me privately that I have nothing to ask and you have not to justify your claims.


 


 


I have them, not just assumptions.


I am sorry to deny this: Sinar did NEVER support your workshops, may be SBI with lighting equipment, but not Sinar. Be precise and get your facts, please.

Thierry


is this the sinar fight club ?   the last battle ?
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thsinar
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« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2008, 04:58:14 AM »
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Quote from: csp
is this the sinar fight club ?   the last battle ?

Huh

Still 4 days left to take good resolutions for the new year.

When will some be able to stop writing such stupid posts?

Thierry
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 05:02:04 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2008, 06:39:20 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Facts, Mr. Mancuso: again you do make claims of a product not working and do not want to give details to let the concerned person (me) answer. Exactly the same attitude when I asked for these very same facts for this very same case on your place. What did you do? You simply deleted my post and questions, explaining me privately that I have nothing to ask and you have not to justify your claims.


 


 


I have them, not just assumptions.


I am sorry to deny this: Sinar did NEVER support your workshops, may be SBI with lighting equipment, but not Sinar. Be precise and get your facts, please.

Thierry


Love how you add partial quotes and use them to your benefit. Bottom line I do not have to give my opinion or anything else on your product just like anyone else. This was not just one time with a Sinar product i had issues with, which you constantly keep referring too. I had plenty of play time with Sinar products that gives ME the impression i would not buy it with a 10 foot pole. Sorry i don't like it but you simply cannot accept that. Oh and your post that was deleted was against forum rules and yes i deleted it and no one saw it. But you fail to mention that to your friends in which you sent  PM's  too. Now those are the facts. You move on with your friends that obviously have a agenda. This is a classic example of it right here.

BTW yes it was Sinar Bron that supported our workshop. Since you represent Sinar i would never have them support anything i was involved with. So take your personal agenda outside this forum. I did not start this little Sinar thing on this thread and if i post i would not touch it with a ten foot pole do i not have the right to say that and left it at that. But you sure find a way to come to the Sinar rescue and make it all better and no one even mentioned your name. Bottom line I do not like the HY6 . Now if you can not accept that which i said all along than i am sorry . You want reasons for my comment than you will not get them, I see no point and i see no point in listening to you defend it. It's my opinion just like i don't like any other product, i don't like Speedotron or Canon either. Who cares.

No i will not leave this forum Thierry you are the one making a mess of it with your constant sales pitches.

BTW please lose my e-mail address i am tired of your notes, which just go to the junk box anyway. Have a nice day.

The End. Now can we move on to stuff that actually counts because this is boring and no one cares.


BTW i still have not seen a link in which Jack or I have said anything of merit against a Sinar product . Besides some random comments about not liking the controls or something there is none.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 06:52:55 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2008, 06:57:07 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Huh

Still 4 days left to take good resolutions for the new year.

When will some be able to stop writing such stupid posts?

Thierry


Now do you not think that is not a insult to csp about writing stupid posts. To me and others you are saying he is stupid but this is not even directed at you. This comes from a person that works for Sinar a company rep. and i have seen this several times on this forum to tell people to shut up and stay out of your business. I find this very interesting that it is okay you directly insult people and people accept this as something that is okay.

 I will not comment any further on this thread in which i see no point defending my opinion on anything including anything i may have said or done. Time to move on and beyond this BS
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 07:28:17 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

thsinar
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« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2008, 07:27:20 AM »
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Mr. Mancuso,

I do not insult a person but simply give my opinion about the value of a post from a member, little difference, if I am allowed to say this.

I put you on the task to find a single post, here or elsewhere, in which I have insulted somebody. Come on with it, if you can find it.

Thierry

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
Now do you not think that is not a insult to csp about writing stupid posts. To me and others you are saying he is stupid but this is not even directed at you. This comes from a person that works for Sinar a company rep. and i have seen this several times on this forum to tell people to shut up and stay out of your business. I find this very interesting that it is okay you directly insult people and people accept this as something that is okay.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2008, 07:48:51 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Mr. Mancuso,

I do not insult a person but simply give my opinion about the value of a post from a member, little difference, if I am allowed to say this.

I put you on the task to find a single post, here or elsewhere, in which I have insulted somebody. Come on with it, if you can find it.

Thierry


Not worth my time. I have a opinion on it also which is not related to yours as we can see. I see it as a insult.
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csp
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« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2008, 09:18:38 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Huh

Still 4 days left to take good resolutions for the new year.

When will some be able to stop writing such stupid posts?

Thierry


i think you are a hypocrite and you behave like a kind of sinar police .  considering the amount of sales pitches you place here i would not be so sensitive.
 
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2008, 09:56:12 AM »
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Quote from: thsinar
Mr. Flesher,

I kindly but firmly ask you to stop immediately your "claims", together with your partner. We three know what we are speaking about, others are not interested. Facts are what they are and I have nothing to show to you or your partner, at least not here and in this place.

Leave this place a sane and professional one like it has always been, both of you.

Thierry

Mr. Sinar,

If "facts are what they are" then how come you have none to show where I was involved in "bashing" Sinar as you continually claim?  Yes, I have publicly stated my *opinion* that I personally did not like several things about the camera, and in the same thread even pointed out a few features I did like.  Ever since then however, you got hyper defensive and started your childish vendetta against me.    

I don't know why you have initiated this battle against me personally, but now one thing is pretty clear from other posts here --- folks are seeing right through your squalid sales-pitch motives...  I am curiously reminded of a rat swimming in an ocean whenever you post.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:20:36 AM by Jack Flesher » Logged

Robin Balas
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« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2008, 10:08:00 AM »
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Quote from: Jack Flesher
Mr. Sinar,

If "facts are what they are" then how come you have none to show where I was involved in "bashing" Sinar?  

I don't know why you have initiated this battle against me personally, but now one thing is pretty clear form other posts here --- folks are seeing right through your squalid sales-pitch motives...  I am curiously reminded of a rat swimming in an ocean whenever you post.

Strange I and "some others" are seeing it the opposite way.
This thread should be closed and forgotten, it is not doing anyone any good.

Respect is something one earns, there isn't much "earning" going on here.
 
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[span style='font-family:Arial']Robin Balas
DIGITALIS

Professional Photographer, Engineer, Teacher and Consultant[/span]
jing q
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« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2008, 10:16:13 AM »
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yeah guys let's stop it now.
Would like more opinion on the actual thread topic.
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VanKou
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« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2008, 10:57:55 AM »
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I started the topic with a valid question...I regret it turned out to be this way.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2008, 11:39:27 AM »
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Quote from: VanKou
I started the topic with a valid question...I regret it turned out to be this way.


Me too but I did try and answer your question as best i could and if you have more be more than happy and try and help if you need any. I like the Mamiya glass and after shooting the P65 plus with it it reaffirmed any doubts i may have had with my lenses. Some are really good all around with build quality and optics some are older units that need a update like the 55mm but it does hold up very well. i think Phase and mamiya are working on doing that in the future. But the current D glass is very good and do not regret spending the extra money to get them but the 55mm and even the 35mm which i do have a good copy of that one as well do a really nice job on all there backs.  I have shot all of the Phase backs except the P20 and P21 and they all hold there own very well in the field. My favorite is the 150 2.8 D and than i do happen to really like the 28D and even with it 's slight softness way in the corners a little corner sharpness trick on it does a nice job and i did a important interior job with it and turned out really well. There 120 macro is also supposed to be excellent , i only tried it once but Jack owns it and it again did very well with the P65 sensor. Good luck on your decisions.

 I should add i am a big fan of the 300mm AF 4.5 and stupid me i sold it and now trying to buy it again. I did try it with the P65 also with Jack's copy and it did a stellar job at 300 yards away with holding detail.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 11:42:19 AM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

bcooter
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« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2008, 11:47:40 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I have shot with both the 120 lenses on the Hasselblad & Mamiya ( not the D lens ) & there about the same. Really you are comparing Fugi vrs Mamiya here. I have shot billboards with the old Mamiya 80mm lens along with the old 150mm, very sharp. Each to their own & there has been plenty of debate over Hasselblad vrs Mamiya over the years.
Denis


I don't doubt the mamiya lenses aren't sharp I guess most modern lenses are sharp, even sigmas, but in the realm of medium format, rightly or wrongly the mamiya afd was always condsidered the bargain basement medium format camera and it was the tactile feel and build quality of the lenses, the body and the grinding noise of the autofocus that gave it that reputation.

It also didn't have that stellar of a reputation in rental departments and once medium format went autofocus the first two choices were Hasselblad, Contax with Mamiya a distant third.

Now that it is reskined and reworked as a Phase and Mamiya III, with a few new lenses it's improved but if it moves to Hasselblad H prices what's the point, given the fact that H series cameras are backed up in rental everywhere and you don't have to look to hard to find a good used H1 H2.

Where have all the professional cameras gone?  From 5 or 6 years ago we had probably a dozen or so cameras with another dozen or so models in the professional ranks and now were down to what 4 or 5 with the hasselblad, Rollei HY6, Mamiya, Canon and Nikon.  

Has Canon and Nikon just devoured the professional market leaving the rest to pick up the crumbs or has digital just leveled the field where the difference between the 645 sized cameras and 35mm is just not that great.

It is probably a combination of the two though I think the medium format digital companies had as much to do with snuffing their own market as Canon did, because with every medium format camera system there are always as many questions as answers.  Where's the lenses, what's the date for for finders, right angle grips, and most importantly what's the price, the real price, not the call your dealer and negotiate price.

While medium format struggles to answer and ship the two main 35mm companies just keep pumping out new product and putting it on camera store shelves worldwide.  You can buy a Canon or Nikon anywhere in the world, usually for a good price, but try to find a medium format back with a specific mount and unless your in NY, LA or London, the option of walking in and buying what you want goes down quickly.

There is one camera store I frequent a great deal.  It's not the biggest, actually just a one counter store, though they sell product like water and I've never gone in when they aren't busy and even during these tough retail times had their best black friday in 10 years.   I've asked them why they don't sell medium format or even the leicas and they said they're just too expensive, complicated and require too much investment for the return.  If the backs were more universal they would still carry medium format cameras, but today it doesn't work that way.  A pentax 6x7 is just a paperweight, a RZ 67 with a digital back turns the viewfinder into a postage stamp and Hasselblad, the HY6, even certain elements of the Phase/Mamiya are proprietary to the back/camera so the days of buy your camera first and chose your specific film are gone.

It makes you wonder if there were Kodak and Fuji digital backs, that costs $5,000 instead of 12 to 30 thousand dollars and worked on any medium format camera, that segment of the market wouldn't still thrive but the toothpaste is out of the tube, the contracts and strategic alliances have been signed and those days of buy your camera and pick your film are gone.

In medium format the tail wags the dog.  The back makers have taken control over the cameras and limiting any options has not done the medium format market any good.

Bronica, fuji, Pentax and Contax stopped medium format production and it didn't make Hasselblad or Mamiya wealthy it just limited the  medium format market overall.

So back to the original thread of can a Mamiya lens resolve 39mp.  Sure and so can most cameras, even out of production contax, but the issue isn't the cameras or the lenses, the real question is what digital film do you use with them and no matter what anybody says, there are only two digital films, Kodak and Dalsa.  The rest is just the packaging, contracts that limit the sensor shape and slight packaging variations of the same theme.

When I started digital capture and we struggled through the learning curve of icc proviles, proprietary software, updating os systems, calibrating monitors, leaning DAM, storage, backups and working files to try to mimic some kind of film look, late one night my studio manager looked up at me under a pile of prints, hard drives and calibration tools and said, you know someday we're gong to look back at a $15 roll of film and laugh at how cheap, easy and most importantly how much fun film photography was.

I am beginning to believe he was right.

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david o
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« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2008, 12:25:28 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
When I started digital capture and we struggled through the learning curve of icc proviles, proprietary software, updating os systems, calibrating monitors, leaning DAM, storage, backups and working files to try to mimic some kind of film look, late one night my studio manager looked up at me under a pile of prints, hard drives and calibration tools and said, you know someday we're gong to look back at a $15 roll of film and laugh at how cheap, easy and most importantly how much fun film photography was.

I am beginning to believe he was right.

hope so sometime
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thsinar
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« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2008, 01:51:54 PM »
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Your absolute right to think so.
But you should come out with your real name, instead of hiding behind 3 letters and then only criticizing some people here.
That would be much appreciated.

Thierry

Quote from: csp
i think you are a hypocrite and you behave like a kind of sinar police .  considering the amount of sales pitches you place here i would not be so sensitive.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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ziocan
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« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2008, 02:49:33 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
rst and chose your specific film are gone.

It makes you wonder if there were Kodak and Fuji digital backs, that costs $5,000 instead of 12 to 30 thousand dollars and worked on any medium format camera, that segment of the market wouldn't still thrive but the toothpaste is out of the tube, the contracts and strategic alliances have been signed and those days of buy your camera and pick your film are gone.

In medium format the tail wags the dog.  The back makers have taken control over the cameras and limiting any options has not done the medium format market any good.

Bronica, fuji, Pentax and Contax stopped medium format production and it didn't make Hasselblad or Mamiya wealthy it just limited the  medium format market overall.
Kodak began pretty well with the Proback, it was 17mp at about 10/11 grands and it was not bad for that time. If I well remember it was the only one that could take CF cards as well. Today it could be about 30mp at about 8/9 grands, maybe 7 grands. Why we could not get anything like that today?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:16:46 PM by ziocan » Logged
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