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Author Topic: how to take advantage of 10-bit displays?  (Read 23665 times)
jerryrock
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 05:38:24 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Both Karl and Neil, pretty respected color experts in the field, have mentioned bugs and issues. Maybe you can pass along the fixes to them.

Feel free to pass on the attached reply from Xrite:


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Gerald J Skrocki
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digitaldog
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 05:44:02 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
Feel free to pass on the attached reply from Xrite:

Can't speak for Neil but Karl will find it difficult to follow such useful advise under OS X.
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Andrew Rodney
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MartinCh
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2010, 12:56:02 AM »
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.. are 30 bit monitors such as Dreamcolor or zr30w more appropriate in video type work? (if Photoshop has an 8 bit limit)
otherwise, are there other photo editing software that takes 10 bit?
how much more difference (or benefits) will final prints show when edited in 10 bit compared with 8 bit?

does 1 billion colors equal a more impressive final print in the end? (keeping in mind the human eye distinguishes 7-10 million colors, tones)

if I'm just basic editing my raw files (adobe rgb), such as sharpening, cropping, basic levels, curves, will I be able to take advantage on color intensive editing type work that Dreamcolor offers?

otherwise, what are best suggested monitors to use when converting adobe rgb to prophoto space files to edit?
2690wuxi2 or P221w?  or other monitors with 100% adobe rgb?




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digitaldog
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2010, 12:31:47 PM »
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Quote from: MartinCh
how much more difference (or benefits) will final prints show when edited in 10 bit compared with 8 bit?
Probably not much.
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does 1 billion colors equal a more impressive final print in the end? (keeping in mind the human eye distinguishes 7-10 million colors, tones).
Few of us sending 16-bit files through 16-bit drivers have seen any differences. Its nice you can send all the data you have to the driver but I suspect, as Epson has suggested, we’ll maybe see benefits in the future as products are designed for this task. But in the end, the idea is to send the best 24 bits to the driver/output device.
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if I'm just basic editing my raw files (adobe rgb), such as sharpening, cropping, basic levels, curves, will I be able to take advantage on color intensive editing type work that Dreamcolor offers?
With all the warts and issues (and cost) associated with this bleeding edge technology? Probably not. Too many users were soured by the experience based on a lot of posts by color geeks to the Colorsync list. KISS, life is too short to be a beta tester for HP.
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otherwise, what are best suggested monitors to use when converting adobe rgb to prophoto space files to edit?
2690wuxi2 or P221w?  or other monitors with 100% adobe rgb?
Well of the two, the 2690 has more bells and whistles (the P221W is an entry level smart monitor). And NEC has a new generation of displays starting with the smaller PA241W with a 26” or 27” said to be on its heals.
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Andrew Rodney
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MartinCh
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2010, 06:05:53 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Probably not much.

Few of us sending 16-bit files through 16-bit drivers have seen any differences. Its nice you can send all the data you have to the driver but I suspect, as Epson has suggested, we’ll maybe see benefits in the future as products are designed for this task. But in the end, the idea is to send the best 24 bits to the driver/output device.

With all the warts and issues (and cost) associated with this bleeding edge technology? Probably not. Too many users were soured by the experience based on a lot of posts by color geeks to the Colorsync list. KISS, life is too short to be a beta tester for HP.

Well of the two, the 2690 has more bells and whistles (the P221W is an entry level smart monitor). And NEC has a new generation of displays starting with the smaller PA241W with a 26” or 27” said to be on its heals.

So you'd go for Nec Spectraview as best value, performance?

Also new zr30w, good in video work as well.

Your avatar favorite poochy?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2010, 06:52:48 PM »
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Quote from: MartinCh
So you'd go for Nec Spectraview as best value, performance?

IMHO, best bang for the buck.
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Andrew Rodney
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neil snape
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2010, 02:08:46 AM »
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Quote from: MartinCh
So you'd go for Nec Spectraview as best value, performance?

Also new zr30w, good in video work as well.


I just want to add, over all these years NEC have always produced the best quality to price ratio monitors to date.
Not much to think about , any NEC SpectraView is a decent monitor, one that is always on the top of the list.
HP DreamColor monitor's  underlying technology is a darn good thing, but the support and follow up is not there for photographers.

For video work , ideally a Sony or HP DreamColor would be the best choice. Thing is the HP although a reference monitor, you have to question it's state of calibration, constantly double guess what is right or not. Then try to figure out if the software is going to work or not.

I will have to get a new monitor soon , and that will be a NEC.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2010, 04:09:46 AM »
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next vote for NEC - new PA241W and 271W are fantastic. And they also have 10 bit DisplayPort, so in case it eventually would make a difference, they seem to be future proof in that respect.
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shayaweiss
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2010, 04:23:46 AM »
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Quote from: Czornyj
next vote for NEC - new PA241W and 271W are fantastic. And they also have 10 bit DisplayPort, so in case it eventually would make a difference, they seem to be future proof in that respect.

If it makes a difference, than, with the PA seires, I think we should have everything we need for full 10bit chain.

PS CS5 > different video cards & drivers (mine for example, a ATI 5770) > DisplayPort > PA series monitor

There is a "10 bit test ramp.zip" ( http://www.imagescience.com.au/kb/getattac...XN0IHJhbXAuemlw ) from imagescience.com.au. It should be competly smooth if you got 10 bit the whole way through.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:30:26 AM by shayaweiss » Logged
Czornyj
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2010, 04:29:03 AM »
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Quote from: shayaweiss
If it makes a difference, than, with the PA seires, I think we should have everything we need for full 10bit chain.

PS CS5 > different video cards & drivers (mine for example, a ATI 5770) > DisplayPort > PA series monitor
This is obvious - BTW im not 100% sure that 5770 has 10bit DP output...
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shayaweiss
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2010, 04:33:25 AM »
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Quote from: Czornyj
This is obvious - BTW im not 100% sure that 5770 has 10bit DP output...

from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_%28GPU_family%29 :

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On Evergreen family GPUs, DisplayPort outputs on board are capable of 10-bit per component output,[4]  and HDMI output is capable of 12-bit per component output
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:34:21 AM by shayaweiss » Logged
bossanova808
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2010, 12:04:23 AM »
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Quote from: shayaweiss

Technically the 5770 hardware can do it but it isn't exposed in the drivers, so I have been unable to get 10 bit with a 5770.  You need a WorkStation card (ie FirePro) with the WorksStation driver page that has the explicit 'enable 10 bit control' - once you turn this on the above mentioned file will display smoothly properly, but since this swtich is not available with teh 5770s, it doesn't work with them.
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shayaweiss
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2010, 06:47:18 AM »
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Quote from: bossanova808
Technically the 5770 hardware can do it but it isn't exposed in the drivers, so I have been unable to get 10 bit with a 5770.  You need a WorkStation card (ie FirePro) with the WorksStation driver page that has the explicit 'enable 10 bit control' - once you turn this on the above mentioned file will display smoothly properly, but since this swtich is not available with teh 5770s, it doesn't work with them.

So actually, which video card would work in 10-bit with dual GPU / LUT under Windows 7 64 bit ?
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bossanova808
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2010, 07:12:42 AM »
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Quote from: shayaweiss
So actually, which video card would work in 10-bit with dual GPU / LUT under Windows 7 64 bit ?

The FirePro 4800 or similar.
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Nino Loss
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2010, 07:33:49 AM »
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Quote from: bossanova808
The FirePro 4800 or similar.

Is there any chance that it'll work with our Intel DP55WB Desktop board here?
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shayaweiss
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2010, 10:12:19 AM »
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Quote from: bossanova808
The FirePro 4800 or similar.

Thanks. But I do also not know whether this will work with a normal i5 motherboard.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 10:15:29 AM by shayaweiss » Logged
bossanova808
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2010, 06:39:40 PM »
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Quote from: shayaweiss
Thanks. But I do also not know whether this will work with a normal i5 motherboard.

Well, on the ATI/NVidia side of things you need the Workstation/Quadra type cards and drivers.  I very much doubt the integrated graphics expose 10 bit functionality even if they offer it.  Shouldn't be hard to find or test - the image linked above makes testing for it easy, and looking through your driver control panel should be simple enough - you can pretty much guarantee 10 bit won't be on by default as their are all sorts of potential problems with it (eg Windows Aero will pop into basic mode with the ATI drivers, for starters, but various apps will have issues too most likely).


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shayaweiss
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2010, 06:49:31 PM »
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Quote from: bossanova808
Well, on the ATI/NVidia side of things you need the Workstation/Quadra type cards and drivers.  I very much doubt the integrated graphics expose 10 bit functionality even if they offer it.  Shouldn't be hard to find or test - the image linked above makes testing for it easy, and looking through your driver control panel should be simple enough - you can pretty much guarantee 10 bit won't be on by default as their are all sorts of potential problems with it (eg Windows Aero will pop into basic mode with the ATI drivers, for starters, but various apps will have issues too most likely).

Thanks again. Is there no video card that would be easily run with 10bit and two monitors on a desktop machine, with a basic intel i5 motherboard, or nino's above mentioned DP55WB?
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bossanova808
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« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2010, 06:53:17 PM »
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Quote from: shayaweiss
Thanks again. Is there no video card that would be easily run with 10bit and two monitors on a desktop machine, with a basic intel i5 motherboard, or nino's above mentioned DP55WB?

The FirePro is a standard PCI Express x16 graphics card range that fits basically any normal PC desktop so I am not sure what you mean?  The 'Workstation' thing is just branding - the cards are minor tweaks on everyday desktop cards (like the 5770) but with more pipelines (or something) and more comprehensive driver support for advanced features.

The card I mentioned is about US$250 worth at a guess and bog standard stuff really.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 06:53:33 PM by bossanova808 » Logged
shayaweiss
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« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2010, 07:15:56 PM »
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Quote from: bossanova808
The FirePro is a standard PCI Express x16 graphics card range that fits basically any normal PC desktop so I am not sure what you mean?  The 'Workstation' thing is just branding - the cards are minor tweaks on everyday desktop cards (like the 5770) but with more pipelines (or something) and more comprehensive driver support for advanced features.

The card I mentioned is about US$250 worth at a guess and bog standard stuff really.

I am sorry, I got something wrong. So  once fit into a standard Desktop, what are the next steps to make 10bit work. You mentioned something about turning it on. Where and how? You also wrote that it is risky, so I wonder what could happen?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 07:16:17 PM by shayaweiss » Logged
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