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Author Topic: What is a fair price for a use p21+?  (Read 14270 times)
bcooter
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« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2009, 10:15:58 AM »
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Quote from: Steve Hendrix/Phase One
The statement that Phase One charges a minimum of $2,500 is not correct. Repeat - not correct.



Not that digital back repairs aren't expensive - they are, it's an expensive product. But a $389 repair does not cost $2,500.

Please adjust your headsets accordingly.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

Steve,

Adjust them to what?  I've heard this number before as have others, hence the reason the value added was preferable.

Roughly what is the average repair for a stuck button or replacement of a firewire port?

Where are the repairs done?  Denmark, or other repair facilities?

Do value added repairs get priority?

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Steve Hendrix
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« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2009, 12:56:29 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
Steve,

Adjust them to what?  I've heard this number before as have others, hence the reason the value added was preferable.

Roughly what is the average repair for a stuck button or replacement of a firewire port?

Where are the repairs done?  Denmark, or other repair facilities?

Do value added repairs get priority?


There are standard set repair prices for out of warranty products that vary by model. I don't know if there are commoon sense exceptions for something that is a very low cost (like a stuck button). But a stuck button or firewire port replacement - while sounding relatively benign - can be a more expensive and complex repair than the terminology indicates.

Also, there is an annual extended warranty that is offered that costs $699 - $999 per year on an out of warranty product (depending on the product). This is less than the standard repair fee on any of the DB's.

Other than the owner receiving a replacement or loaner, there is no priority given to Value Add repairs over Classic. If anything, a classic repair might recive priority since that customer is without a loaner, although I dont know that this occurs. It is likely first come, first serve, but I don't know for sure.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Steve Hendrix
Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar
Direct: 404.543.8475
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2009, 02:38:25 PM »
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Just a quick note that if you have a loaner and you, by great misfortune, have a problem with the loaner itself you will receive a second loaner.

Hope that makes sense.  I've only had it happen to a customer once in 2008.

Just in case you were wondering.

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 02:57:47 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
Dealer for Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Profoto
Office: 877.367.8537
Cell: 740.707.2183
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SeanBK
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« Reply #63 on: January 03, 2009, 01:01:40 PM »
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This might enlighten the dark secrets of pricing structures of warranties of Phase One backs. Me likey straight forward listed prices, Bravo.
   http://cgi.ebay.com/Phase-One-digital-back...%3A1%7C294%3A50
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bcooter
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« Reply #64 on: January 04, 2009, 12:15:55 PM »
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Quote from: SeanBK
This might enlighten the dark secrets of pricing structures of warranties of Phase One backs. Me likey straight forward listed prices, Bravo.
   http://cgi.ebay.com/Phase-One-digital-back...%3A1%7C294%3A50


I don't know what they are doing in the boardrooms of cameraland in January but I hope there giving their whole business model a rethink.

A year ago when home equity was going up 30% a year dropping an extra $15,000 to upgrade to a digital back, or buying a new $7,000 dslr was an easy thought, but today is different.

Today every purchase must count and I'm not buying anything that doesn't give me a clear advantage on what I shoot, what I invoice.

$2,500 for 3 years for a value added warranty might make sense for a $30,000 item, but since p21+'s are now selling lightly used at 6 grand, 31/39mpx backs are selling for under 12k,  even $700 a year seems harsh considering a MAC warranty on a new $8,000 D3x is just $300 for three years.

I find the whole professional equipment makers business model frustrating.  At the end of 2008 I was going to buy $24,000 in broncolor HMI's.  I called one Sinar-Bron dealer  that couldn't get any information (actually couldn't even find what was currently offered) and finally called the largest Sinar-Bron NY dealer that had information and experience with the Broncolor HMI's  but virtually nothing in stock.  His response was it should ship in 2 to 4 weeks, but Sinar-Bron closes for the holidays and  most of January so he can't promise anything anytime, so I passed.  I just knew that writing the check and having a box arrive with 1/4 of the order wasn't going to do anything but require 20 phone calls chasing down the equipment.

I was also going to buy a D3x before Jan. 1 and found one locally, but at $8,000 you know that in 4 months there will be a D800x or something like that that will do the same thing (probably offer video) and go for 1/2 that price.

So I did buy a 5dII on an impulse, thinking I would make it a video camera, took it out of the box once, found out that on video mode you can't manually control anything (without 4 ND filters and an old Nikon to Canon lens convertor) so I put it back in the box.   I'll either return it or sell it, because as it stands it offers very little that my  current high def video cameras give me.

Deep down I'm rooting for RED.   Though today there is nothing there that will actually replace my medium format and 35mm dslrs, at least they are taking in feedback and hopefully will offer something I can't do without, vs. something I sort of wish I had.

Now in reality had Canon or Nikon offered a 20mpx still camera that shot hdv with manual controls I would have spent $8,000 and never looked back.  Had the Broncolors been in stock I would have done the same, but instead I'll put  the money back under the mattress.

Regardless of the cost, or usability, I strongly suggest that any camera, light, grip company that sells anything, offer clarity.    Nobody want's to be fooled, nobody wants to think that a stuck button could cost $1,000 to fix and rather than run that risk pay $2,500 up front for an insurance policy that only covers the manufacturers defects in the first place.

There are a lot of topics on this board that cover a lot of territory and it all comes down to costs.    Carrying multiple camera systems on Air Bosnia is now a nightmare.   I've had those arguments where I say it fits, they say it's overweight, I say it cost 30 grand, they say tough, I say get the manager.  So when it comes down to what camera I carry on board it's usually the one that will cover the most territory.

I recently moved equipment around the world and in that process of 9 airlines my baggage overage was close to $6,000.  So once again, when you put everything on the floor and start counting what you must have, vs. what you would like to take with you, which cameras go and which cameras are left behind.

Which cameras can you replace in Korea, or Iowa and which ones require a dozen phone calls trying to get a replacement.

Edit:

Now maybe I'm not the normal buyer, but I don't like to rent I'd rather own and know my own equipment.  Given this I went into the end of the year looking for a tax benefit thinking I'd spend around $24,000 or more and ended up with just a 5dII that I'll probably return.  From 24k to 3k to 0 is a heck of a drop.

What I don't understand is I would have thought that the manufacturers would be pushing product and service like crazy.  Since I own 3 Nikons, 4 canons, 1 leica and two Phase backs you'd think I would be on some kind of e-mail list of "sell that guy something in December", rather than just getting the standard e-mail blast all the makers send out.

If Phase had offered an extended warranty on my digital backs that wasn't $2,500 each, I might have gone for it, especially since all it really covers is a makers defect not some kind of damage or loss, but none of those offers graced my in box.

If Canon sent out a note saying "hey sorry, we forgot to give you manual controls on the 5d2 and we'll fix it next week", I'd probably have bought even more Canon stuff.

If Nikon had made the D3x a killer Cam rather than an almost medium format camera, as mentioned that 8 grand would have been easier to spend.

You would think with the advent of these combination cameras that eventually will shoot cinema quality video and high detailed stills, Profoto, Elinchrome, Sinar-Bron, would offer some kind of daylight balanced continuous light that a still photographer is familiar with, a system that lets us use our current modifiers, but at last check, Sinar-Bron hasn't even updated their hmi section on their website and Profoto discontinued their HMI's.

The Phase P65+ seems interesting to me, but not because of the added megapixels, but because there was talk about some kind of pixel binning to go to higher iso, but since that original photokina announcement there has been no information to explain this, so my money stays in my wallet.

Maybe business in camerland is better than I thought.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 01:47:15 PM by bcooter » Logged
Aurelio
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« Reply #65 on: January 04, 2009, 07:02:30 PM »
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I just have to say, when i look back how much i invested for the past few years on my equipment, i don't feel  good when i have to  think about current value of
my computers, cameras, lighting...  As a photographers we have to survive  if camera makers want to sell something  to us. I think that  every day will be  more difficult to justify investing in newest line of product, i really hope that im wrong
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Alex MacPherson
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« Reply #66 on: January 04, 2009, 07:24:57 PM »
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Quote from: Aurelio
I just have to say, when i look back how much i invested for the past few years on my equipment, i don't feel  good when i have to  think about current value of
my computers, cameras, lighting...  As a photographers we have to survive  if camera makers want to sell something  to us. I think that  every day will be  more difficult to justify investing in newest line of product, i really hope that im wrong

I have found that is always more useful to buy equipment behind the cutting edge. I mean sure it is nice to have the latest and greatest... but
you always pay a large premium. This is especially true with computers and digital cameras.

I can never justify the price of getting the newest gear because I am getting good results with gear that was formerly cutting edge.  
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Alex MacPherson

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antonyoung
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« Reply #67 on: January 04, 2009, 07:40:52 PM »
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Quote from: Aurelio
I just have to say, when i look back how much i invested for the past few years on my equipment, i don't feel  good when i have to  think about current value of
my computers, cameras, lighting...  As a photographers we have to survive  if camera makers want to sell something  to us. I think that  every day will be  more difficult to justify investing in newest line of product, i really hope that im wrong

A camera purchase now is literally a computer purchase- cameras are computers with lenses, and camera gear now devalues at computer rates. My rule with both computers and cameras is that if I don't realistically think I can make an item pay for itself and turn a profit within a year I don't buy it.
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antonyoung
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« Reply #68 on: January 04, 2009, 07:51:08 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
You would think with the advent of these combination cameras that eventually will shoot cinema quality video and high detailed stills, Profoto, Elinchrome, Sinar-Bron, would offer some kind of daylight balanced continuous light that a still photographer is familiar with, a system that lets us use our current modifiers, but at last check, Sinar-Bron hasn't even updated their hmi section on their website and Profoto discontinued their HMI's.

I don't think any strobe manufacturer has ever been successful with continuous light sources have they? Drop that $24K if you want, but I think in pretty short order you'll be sitting with some discontinued and unsupported product.
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bcooter
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« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2009, 12:31:37 AM »
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Quote from: antonyoung
I don't think any strobe manufacturer has ever been successful with continuous light sources have they? Drop that $24K if you want, but I think in pretty short order you'll be sitting with some discontinued and unsupported product.


Well, that's why I didn't buy them because I couldn't talk to the manufacturer.  Though I used the 1200 and 575's in Southeast Asia and they were tremdous, put out a lot of light, and smaller than profoto acute packs.

Now they use the same ballast for both wattage, 800 and 575 and use most Bron modifiiers, but it's the size, you can travel with them, vs. taking large arri's.

Still, profoto hasn't made hmi's in a while and the few that are out there are going for the same price used as new.

We can't say that about almost anything we buy in the camera world.

But in regards to the comment of having success with HMI's, most of the strobe manufacturer's never offered them when digital dslrs had moved to higher mpx and iso.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 12:33:02 AM by bcooter » Logged
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