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Author Topic: Zeroing in on paper for my Z3100 and B&W  (Read 8222 times)
mikelanto
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« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 10:15:52 AM »
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Hahnemühle has recently published configuration files (.oms) for all papers for the Z3100. I am currently testing them. In other matters: HAS ANYONE TRIED CANSON_INFINITY ROLES?
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deanwork
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« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 02:55:17 PM »
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Quote from: mikelanto
Hahnemühle has recently published configuration files (.oms) for all papers for the Z3100. I am currently testing them. In other matters: HAS ANYONE TRIED CANSON_INFINITY ROLES?



Where are you seeing this? Do you have a link? All I see on the Hahnemuhle site is their original icc profile made with Fine Art Pearl media setting? Is that what you are using?

john
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Thomas Krüger
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« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2009, 04:18:41 AM »
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http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/de/59/hewlett-packard.html
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deanwork
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« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2009, 09:45:29 AM »
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I see there that Hahnemuhle is still suggesting using the Fine Art Pearl - less ink - media setting. I've found less gloss differential problems with the Hp Fine Art Baryta media setting.

What are the rest of you using out there with your custom profiles?


john
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Thomas Krüger
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« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2009, 09:29:34 AM »
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Anybody has tried the HP Baryte Satin Art Paper, CG803A or CG804A with good results on the Z3100 ??
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Colorwave
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2009, 11:31:43 AM »
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Quote from: deanwork
I see there that Hahnemuhle is still suggesting using the Fine Art Pearl - less ink - media setting. I've found less gloss differential problems with the Hp Fine Art Baryta media setting.

What are the rest of you using out there with your custom profiles?


john
John-
The HP preset decoder ring (Working With Other Commercially Available Papers.pdf) says that the two settings are identical in their properties, with both having an ink limit of 32 and all the other parameters the same as well.  The document is getting a little long in the tooth, and HP says that they have no plans to update it, but I think the presets haven't changed.  

ThomasK-
If you search LL, you will find that most people like the HP paper alright, but prefer the Hahnemuhle, if they have tried both.  I personally find that the HP has some coclking issues if I print larger than 18" x 24 or so.  The Hahnemuhle doesn't buckle under ink load the same way.
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deanwork
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2009, 12:59:35 PM »
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Thomas you are right. I tested it both ways and they look the same with the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta suface on the Z. When I first started trying these papers  it was with the Fine Art Pearl media setting but with MORE ink and that didn't work.

Where did you get this HP decoder ring pdf, on their site?

Another good one is the more recent later version of Crane Museo Silver Rag. I think those two are the best on all the printers really, as long as you don't need a brighter white with oba. In that case the Innova Semi-Matte is my favorite and works fantastic on the Z for black and white with no gloss issues at all. It's really hard to tell it from silver paper.

John

ThomasK-
If you search LL, you will find that most people like the HP paper alright, but prefer the Hahnemuhle, if they have tried both.  I personally find that the HP has some coclking issues if I print larger than 18" x 24 or so.  The Hahnemuhle doesn't buckle under ink load the same way.
[/quote]
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rdonson
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2009, 01:21:12 PM »
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John,

The Working With Other Commercially Available Papers.PDF is available from the Z3100 wiki here.   It was originally on the HP website but with all their changes &diety knows where it is now.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
deanwork
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2009, 06:19:23 PM »
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Thanks man, I appreciate it. I have it now. Now you would think they would have sent an email to all us Z owners, or a link when these docs were published wouldn't you? That entire website needs to be taken down and started over from scratch. If they want ideas they can go to epson.com. It's not that difficult to design a friggn website when you are a multi billion dollar corporation, or is it?

john







Quote from: rdonson
John,

The Working With Other Commercially Available Papers.PDF is available from the Z3100 wiki here.   It was originally on the HP website but with all their changes &diety knows where it is now.
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rdonson
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2009, 06:41:36 PM »
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Quote from: deanwork
It's not that difficult to design a friggn website when you are a multi billion dollar corporation, or is it?

It sure can be.  Imagine 3 or 4 business units and sales and support in 8 or 10 countries all wanting their say in the web site or wanting their own version of a web site.  It can be a nightmare.  I think that's what we're witnessing.  It also seems like no one is in charge or really gives a dang.  
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
Colorwave
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2009, 07:51:56 PM »
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I get their survey about how much I love their website fairly often, after I try to leave the site.  I never fail to leave the worst possible evaluation of what they call a "website".  It probably goes in the circular bin, based on all the effect it has obviously had, but I think we need to do all we can to stop them from suffering from the delusion that their website offers "support".  Perhaps our children, or their children, will benefit from HP having a better website if everybody leaves negative feedback when appropriate (which IMHO is every time I visit hp.com).  Thankfully, they have other factors in favor of my continued business, but this certainly detracts from, rather than adds to, the brand.
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rdonson
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 08:59:40 AM »
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The Z printers have succeeded despite HP's lack of support.  Early on the HP tech newsletters were a great help but often impossible to find.  If it weren't for this forum, the wiki and everyone sharing their experiences I think I'd have a very expensive, very large paperweight instead of a solid printer.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
artobest
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 02:40:30 PM »
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Quote from: rdonson
The Z printers have succeeded despite HP's lack of support.

That's not my experience. I've had fantastically attentive and skilful support all along the way with my Z3200ps. Nothing has been too much trouble.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 03:02:48 PM »
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[quote name='deanwork' date='Nov 3 2009, 07:59 PM' post='322245']
Thomas you are right. I tested it both ways and they look the same with the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta suface on the Z. When I first started trying these papers  it was with the Fine Art Pearl media setting but with MORE ink and that didn't work.


John



John,


If I recall it correctly there have been 2 versions of Z3100 media presets for the HP Baryte. The first too heavy on ink and to reduce the cockling a leaner version appeared.

The Z3200 media preset for HP Baryte is still too heavy for that paper.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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deanwork
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2009, 09:23:30 PM »
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Ernst,

In my experience all of the media presets for the Z3100 still show some residual  gloss differential on these gloss fiber papers. Someone sent me a couple of very well done examples of the newer Silver Rag and Harmon fiber gloss sheets with the Epson 9900 and it too shows a bit of a problem, very similar to the Vivera with gloss enhancer. With both the Z3100 and the 9900 on rc gloss papers the surface is  excellent and totally smooth. I've never seen a print from any inkjet pigment printer/ink combination that showed perfect analogue print smoothness on any of these gloss fiber papers however. For me the Hp Baryta was the worse of all in regard to bronzing with Ilford Gallerie close behind. I do like the Photorag Baryta and Silver Rag with the Z and they provide a good option for many applicatons  But, to put it bluntly, the only way to perfect these surfaces is still a couple of light coats of a uv spray, in my opinion. That's still my remedy, unfortunately . But I'm glad we have what we have. This is still a media in progress.

John




John,


If I recall it correctly there have been 2 versions of Z3100 media presets for the HP Baryte. The first too heavy on ink and to reduce the cockling a leaner version appeared.

The Z3200 media preset for HP Baryte is still too heavy for that paper.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[/quote]
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kuau
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2009, 11:39:55 PM »
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I have been following this post form the beginning..
I own a Z3200 PS 24" printer and have also been searching for the "best" paper for B&W prints.
It seems that HM Photorag Baryta is the way to go.
My question is on the Z3200 what is the correct preset to use before making a profile with my APS software. Do I use the one from HM website or one of HP's or do I need to make a custom one.
Thanks
Steven
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__________________________________________________________________________
Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
neil snape
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« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2009, 02:37:07 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
I have been following this post form the beginning..
I own a Z3200 PS 24" printer and have also been searching for the "best" paper for B&W prints.
It seems that HM Photorag Baryta is the way to go.
My question is on the Z3200 what is the correct preset to use before making a profile with my APS software. Do I use the one from HM website or one of HP's or do I need to make a custom one.
Thanks
Steven


I would make my own with APS. For settings you could use HP Baryte, or Pro Satin both with GE.
I also made profiles a while back with the built in profiler which were very good too.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2009, 02:46:35 AM »
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[quote name='deanwork' date='Nov 6 2009, 04:23 AM' post='322967']

But, to put it bluntly, the only way to perfect these surfaces is still a couple of light coats of a uv spray, in my opinion. That's still my remedy, unfortunately . But I'm glad we have what we have. This is still a media in progress.

John


John,

I'm still experimenting with the HP Baryta but there's also a pile of sheets of other brands that I want to test. One thing that I notice is some fog appearing on the print. I have written about that before. The gloss enhancer works perfectly on a lot of gloss materials but not on the HP Baryta, the fog stays. I that case it is easier to apply a varnish or a wax. I leave the GE out now. Less cockling too. Instead I polish the print very mildly with a woollen cloth after it dried thoroughly. That removes the fog and increases the contrast. Then I apply a wax. As this all shifts the tone range from the one calibrated I also try to calibrate the printer based on the end result. It is hard to fool the printer in the calibration stage but I'm getting there. I prefer the Z3100 for B&W though as it is basically more linear in its calibration on other papers.

I think the calibration stage should allow reinserting of the target too like it is possible with profiling. Varnished and laminated prints including canvas have another tone range than the basic stuff that is calibrated/linearised.

For the other gloss media I use the Qimage print filter with one channel pulled back from 255 to 254 to get the Economy GE mode covering the white image content too.

It is still a media in progress, like you write. I often wonder whether it is worth it. Why can't they make an alpha cellulose RC paper without OBAs but with the best whiteners around, the best resin barriers, the best inkjet coating and get that on the market? I have done my bit of analogue B&W printing on Brovira (it must have had OBA's), Portriga and some Ilford papers but to be honest I do not have the nostalgia for that look.  Customers mention the baryta papers though. So my testing is a bit ambivalent.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/




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neil snape
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2009, 11:10:59 AM »
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I have also wanted to calibrate to the polished versions of FA media as most if not all need some polishing with HP's inks that create a haze. I do apply GE in ECO mode on the Baryta media but it is just covering the haze. Ideally it would be to calibrate to a polished sheet, profile the polished page with and without GE.

I don't like the HP Baryte at all. It has a lot of cockle, lousy gamut, becomes unglued when mounted, a less than stellar paper considering what you get with both HAhnemule PR B, or Museo Silver.

I still have a roll that I print family snaps on. Everytime I print on it it makes me cringe.
The opposite is true on Hahnemuhle PR B, where regardless of my level of photography the prints seem like they are each special and worth something.

Oh , yes the HP Baryte needs less inking, more drying time, which also bring their problems to this paper.
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