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Author Topic: NEC 3090 calibration problems  (Read 6454 times)
hawks
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« on: January 09, 2009, 01:35:02 PM »
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I just purchased a NEC 3090WQXi, Hood and SpectraViewII.  I have tried to color calibrate it using the following settings:

White Point= D65
Gama Curve= 2.20
Intensity= 140.0 cd/m2
Contrast=Monitor Default

Uniformity=On
Use Color Comp=  Checked
Correction Level= Midpoint (or half way)

I also tried using Intensity 120.0 cd/m2 setting, resulting in a higher Delta E value of 1.1

The color range that I am not satisfied is with is saturated reds.  RGB values like R=168  G=40  B=53  to   R=181  G=38  B=50.  These colors look over saturated.  I am judging this by looking at a GretagMacbeth DC color checker and several Kodak color approval prints (color test images) ,using a GTI TRV-1 reflective viewer. Note: I am aware of the color difference between the D65 monitor white point setting and D50 viewing booth.  
FYI: My previous display was a 24" Sony GDM FW900 CRT, that I was satisfied with.

I am using a X-Rite DTP94 Colorimeter with SpectraViewII on a PowerMac G5 OS 10.4.11.  (1 hour warm up time before each calibration)

Any ideas/setting suggestions?  Are you NEC 3090 owners happy with your calibration?  

Thanks for any info you care to share.

Hawk

see SpectraView screen capture:
[attachment=10828:SpectraV..._capture.jpg]

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Czornyj
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 06:10:17 PM »
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Hi!

Did you try to calibrate and profile your display using "Edit>Preferences>Primary Colors Chromacity Source:Factory Measurement" option?
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hawks
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 06:18:24 PM »
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Quote from: Czornyj
Hi!

Did you try to calibrate and profile your display using "Edit>Preferences>Primary Colors Chromacity Source:Factory Measurement" option?



After asking a NEC tech about which setting to use, I used "Colorimeter" as the primary colors chromaticity source.  Have you had better results using "Factory Messurement" ?
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pixie
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 10:58:44 AM »
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I also read somewhere - may have been in the SpectraView II manual that depending on the calibration device you are using, you should use Factory Measurement not Colorimeter. I believe this is if the device is not a newer model designed for wide gamma monitors. I also use the DTP94 and my understand was that I should have primary colors set to Factory Measurement.

I only just now got the monitor as well (Xmas present to myself ;-) ), and only started playing with calibration yesterday. Using the following I ended up with a Delta E of .16 which is the lowest I seem to be able to achieve. However, haven't spent any time yet assessing display to print accuracy so can't say at the moment if this calibration is good or bad.



Calibration Settings:

White Point = D65
Gamma Curve = Native
Intensity = 95 cd/m2
Contrast = when you select Native Gamma you cannot set this explicitly

Uniformity = ON
ColorComp = Enabled - I have it set to MAX - I haven't been able to find anything telling me what I should set this to.



Post Calibration Results:

White Point = 6526
Delta E = .16
Black = .39
Intensity = 94.9
Contrast = 243:1

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hawks
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 01:03:00 PM »
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Quote from: pixie
I also read somewhere - may have been in the SpectraView II manual that depending on the calibration device you are using, you should use Factory Measurement not Colorimeter. I believe this is if the device is not a newer model designed for wide gamma monitors. I also use the DTP94 and my understand was that I should have primary colors set to Factory Measurement.

I only just now got the monitor as well (Xmas present to myself ;-) ), and only started playing with calibration yesterday. Using the following I ended up with a Delta E of .16 which is the lowest I seem to be able to achieve. However, haven't spent any time yet assessing display to print accuracy so can't say at the moment if this calibration is good or bad.



Calibration Settings:

White Point = D65
Gamma Curve = Native
Intensity = 95 cd/m2
Contrast = when you select Native Gamma you cannot set this explicitly

Uniformity = ON
ColorComp = Enabled - I have it set to MAX - I haven't been able to find anything telling me what I should set this to.



Post Calibration Results:

White Point = 6526
Delta E = .16
Black = .39
Intensity = 94.9
Contrast = 243:1

Thanks for pointing out the manuals recommendation of using "Factory Measurement not Colorimeter"  if the measurement device is not a newer model designed for wide gamma monitors.  I previously skipped this info in the manual because NEC cleverly put under  a "Windows Only" section . . . I'm a Mac guy.  

I have tried the "Factory Measurement" setting and do not see any improvement or difference.

I wonder if I need to consider getting a different measurement device?  I have written X-Rite asking if they have a filter or some update/retrofit option for my DTP94 that would help.  I don't think they will have any options for this (discontinued) colorimeter, but I thought I would ask.

I already own a x-rite DTP70 spectrometer and the idea of having to buy another spectrometer does not appeal to me from a budget standpoint.  I hope there is good, wide gamut display measurement device available.  Anyone know if there is one?

Best,
Hawk



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hawks
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 03:37:26 PM »
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Quote from: hawks
Thanks for pointing out the manuals recommendation of using "Factory Measurement not Colorimeter"  if the measurement device is not a newer model designed for wide gamma monitors.  I previously skipped this info in the manual because NEC cleverly put under  a "Windows Only" section . . . I'm a Mac guy.  

I have tried the "Factory Measurement" setting and do not see any improvement or difference.

I wonder if I need to consider getting a different measurement device?  I have written X-Rite asking if they have a filter or some update/retrofit option for my DTP94 that would help.  I don't think they will have any options for this (discontinued) colorimeter, but I thought I would ask.

I already own a x-rite DTP70 spectrometer and the idea of having to buy another spectrometer does not appeal to me from a budget standpoint.  I hope there is good, wide gamut display measurement device available.  Anyone know if there is one?

Best,
Hawk

I just spoke with tech and customer support guys at NEC.  They are now offering a NEC/X-rite iOne Display 2-based colorimeter  that "features factory custom calibration for improved color accuracy for NEC wide gamut displays".  I'm not sure it this colorimeter is anything different than a standard iOne Display 2 or if they actually tweaked it for NEC's wide gamut display?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2009, 09:28:17 AM »
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Quote from: hawks
I just spoke with tech and customer support guys at NEC.  They are now offering a NEC/X-rite iOne Display 2-based colorimeter  that "features factory custom calibration for improved color accuracy for NEC wide gamut displays".  I'm not sure it this colorimeter is anything different than a standard iOne Display 2 or if they actually tweaked it for NEC's wide gamut display?

The filter matrixes in this unit are tuned to the wide gamut display (original EyeOne Display isn't).
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
hawks
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2009, 10:08:11 AM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
The filter matrixes in this unit are tuned to the wide gamut display (original EyeOne Display isn't).


Thanks for the info Andrew.  

I ordered one of these NEC/X-rite iOne Display 2 colorimeters.  I hope this makes a significant improvement in the accuracy of calibrating my 3090.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2009, 11:13:02 AM »
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Quote from: hawks
Thanks for the info Andrew.  

I ordered one of these NEC/X-rite iOne Display 2 colorimeters.  I hope this makes a significant improvement in the accuracy of calibrating my 3090.

The differences I suspect would be seen in terms of white point calibration and profiling.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Mathelo
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 09:39:37 AM »
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Quote from: hawks
Thanks for the info Andrew.  

I ordered one of these NEC/X-rite iOne Display 2 colorimeters.  I hope this makes a significant improvement in the accuracy of calibrating my 3090.

So did this new colorimeter make any difference?

Louis
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jackbingham
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 10:28:47 AM »
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I can't help asking why if you are using a d50 viewing booth as a reference you are calibrating to d65. This item seems to have been thrown on the table and then ignored. It is probably true the the dtp-94 can not do the best job with this monitor but it is also true that these two white points will render the displayed and hard copy imagery differently.
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Jack Bingham
Integrated Color Corp Makers of Coloreyes Display
walter.sk
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 10:44:38 AM »
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I've been using the NEC 3090 for a few months now.  I've calibrated it and profiled with SpectraViewII, older and newest versions, and the Eye1 Display 2 colorimeter, which is over a year old and not tweaked for the wider gamut of the display.  I use "Factory Settings" or whatever the term is for profiling the primaries.

Regardless of the settings in my calibration the reds seem to pop, especially when viewing my older photographic work.  My current settings use 140 cd/ms as the luminosity, 2.2 gamma, D65 as the white point, and I am used to the red's "high saturation."  

One answer to what you are seeing is this:  The display color gamut exceeds even Adobe RGB, precisely at the brighter and more saturated corner of the Adobe RGB red boundaries. I don't think we are seeing a problem with the generated profiles.  My old and very good monitor (NEC DiamondPro 2060u) was basically an sRGB display (I believe, anyway,) and I received a surprise when first seeing my older images, done either in the Prophoto or Adobe RGB color spaces, on the NEC 3090.

I might be wrong about this, but I think it is in part, at least, a matter of getting used to the larger display gamut.
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hawks
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 01:38:58 PM »
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Quote from: Mathelo
So did this new colorimeter make any difference?

Louis

Very little.
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hawks
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2009, 01:47:04 PM »
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Quote from: walter.sk
I've been using the NEC 3090 for a few months now.  I've calibrated it and profiled with SpectraViewII, older and newest versions, and the Eye1 Display 2 colorimeter, which is over a year old and not tweaked for the wider gamut of the display.  I use "Factory Settings" or whatever the term is for profiling the primaries.

Regardless of the settings in my calibration the reds seem to pop, especially when viewing my older photographic work.  My current settings use 140 cd/ms as the luminosity, 2.2 gamma, D65 as the white point, and I am used to the red's "high saturation."  

One answer to what you are seeing is this:  The display color gamut exceeds even Adobe RGB, precisely at the brighter and more saturated corner of the Adobe RGB red boundaries. I don't think we are seeing a problem with the generated profiles.  My old and very good monitor (NEC DiamondPro 2060u) was basically an sRGB display (I believe, anyway,) and I received a surprise when first seeing my older images, done either in the Prophoto or Adobe RGB color spaces, on the NEC 3090.

I might be wrong about this, but I think it is in part, at least, a matter of getting used to the larger display gamut.


True the display has a wide RGB color gamut.  But when I view a CMYK image with a specific ICC press profile, the reds are more saturated than you could ever obtain using CMYK inks.  I thought the ICC profile/color management should limit the range of the colors.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2009, 05:10:12 PM »
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Quote from: jackbingham
I can't help asking why if you are using a d50 viewing booth as a reference you are calibrating to d65.

Perhaps it produces a visual match (print to display).
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
jackbingham
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 09:59:26 AM »
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Perhaps it does, but my suggestion was it should not be cast in stone. These tools allow us to experiment and find what solutions work best for each of us. Experimentation lead to a far more informed user.
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Jack Bingham
Integrated Color Corp Makers of Coloreyes Display
digitaldog
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 10:30:56 AM »
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Quote from: jackbingham
Perhaps it does, but my suggestion was it should not be cast in stone..

Exactly, there's no way anyone can provide a default, YMMV.

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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
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