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Author Topic: Worked on 4 canvas wraps today and 3 cracked the ink at the fold.  (Read 10429 times)
Dan Berg
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« on: January 24, 2009, 04:11:24 PM »
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Printed 6 canvas prints 2 weeks ago on my Epson 7900. All prints dried at least 24 hours and then were coated with 2 coats of Glamor II. Canvas was Epsons Premium Canvas Matt and Premium Canvas Satin.
Per Gallery Stretcher's instructions I folded  approximately 2 inches from the edge and made a crease with my hand. This is to help with alignment when doing the first course of staples. Both edges that I creased with my hand showed a crack right through the ink. This was not even put in the stretcher machine up to this point. Almost all the edges that cracked were black so the white canvas really stuck out. I did 2 more and they only cracked slightly but it was still there. The last one I gallery wrapped had NO Glamor II and guess what no cracks. These were all test pieces for my house but I need to figure this out pretty quick. All would have been un-sellable. Any ideas?
Dan Berg
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 04:12:25 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 05:35:46 PM »
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Should be pretty obvious, quit using Glamor II. With no UV inhibitors and all the other problems why does anybody use Glamor II?

Doyle
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 05:37:44 PM by DYP » Logged
blansky
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 06:00:06 PM »
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Of perhaps us the Glamour II after you have wrapped them.
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 07:48:10 PM »
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I guess I listened to all the pre purchase hype but was told canvas would check or split if not covered. Also that the only real way to make sure it does not crack is to put the finish on before it is stretched. Oh well I will see what the company says Monday. Just cannot imagine the product makes it more susceptible to splitting?
Dan Berg
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 10:31:11 PM »
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Quote from: Dan Berg
I guess I listened to all the pre purchase hype but was told canvas would check or split if not covered. Also that the only real way to make sure it does not crack is to put the finish on before it is stretched. Oh well I will see what the company says Monday. Just cannot imagine the product makes it more susceptible to splitting?
Dan Berg

Back when I used Glamor II for a while before I gave up on liquid coatings I noticed that Glamor II got brittle pretty fast. Clearshield type stays soft/rubbery much longer. But it also had a stickiness to it which meant you had to use a release liner of something between the canvas and anything it might come in contact to or else you would you would get some damage from that. Boy am I am glad for Heat-Set film laminates so I now longer have to put up with all the hassles of liquid coatings.

Doyle
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AlanG
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 11:03:30 PM »
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I am debating whether I should coat the canvas prints I plan to make in the near future. The ones I made without coating seem fine.  I use a Canon printer and the prints I made on Canon graphic matte canvas seem very durable. I made a small test print and folded it a few times and tried to scrape the ink off with my fingernail.  I even put it under water and rubbed it. No problem.  

So is the spray primarily for UV protection? Or is there some added durability?

I'd like to know more about Clearshield staying sticky. I never heard that before and it is the brand I was thinking of using.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 11:05:38 PM by AlanG » Logged

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bill t.
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 12:34:45 AM »
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Quote from: AlanG
So is the spray primarily for UV protection? Or is there some added durability?

I'd like to know more about Clearshield staying sticky. I never heard that before and it is the brand I was thinking of using.
UV protection and durability.  A properly coated canvas can take a serious beating including gentle scrapes from sharp objects and wiping with wet cloth.

Never had any problems with Clearshield staying sticky, although I have not used it on anything recently except Epson Premium Matte.  Two fairly generous coats 24 hours apart, as with many paints if you apply a second coat too soon that can inhibit the first coat from drying...in the end trying to go too fast makes everything take longer.  Good painters must cultivate a degree of patience not common in our times.

Of course it's sticky while it's drying.  A double-coat canvas really takes 3 days to completely dry after the final coat, simple fact of life.  If you try to wrap it before that then I suppose it will feel sticky.

I wonder if Dan's stretcher machine is pulling too hard?

 
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 06:38:25 AM »
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Quote from: bill t.
UV protection and durability.  A properly coated canvas can take a serious beating including gentle scrapes from sharp objects and wiping with wet cloth.

Never had any problems with Clearshield staying sticky, although I have not used it on anything recently except Epson Premium Matte.  Two fairly generous coats 24 hours apart, as with many paints if you apply a second coat too soon that can inhibit the first coat from drying...in the end trying to go too fast makes everything take longer.  Good painters must cultivate a degree of patience not common in our times.

Of course it's sticky while it's drying.  A double-coat canvas really takes 3 days to completely dry after the final coat, simple fact of life.  If you try to wrap it before that then I suppose it will feel sticky.

I wonder if Dan's stretcher machine is pulling too hard?

If you note my above comment the canvas was folded and creased by my hand only. Just an alignment fold to help with the first course of staples. Turned the canvas to look at it before stapling and the hand folded crease was cracked through the ink the entire 24" length. Have not had problems when stretching. Maybe the fold should not have been creased with my hand. I watched the Gallery Stretcher video again and he folds the canvas but does not crease it.
Dan
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 06:47:12 AM by Dan Berg » Logged

Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 07:09:23 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Berg
If you note my above comment the canvas was folded and creased by my hand only. Just an alignment fold to help with the first course of staples. Turned the canvas to look at it before stapling and the hand folded crease was cracked through the ink the entire 24" length. Have not had problems when stretching. Maybe the fold should not have been creased with my hand. I watched the Gallery Stretcher video again and he folds the canvas but does not crease it.
Dan

You are probably right about the amount of creasing because where I always noticed problems was at the folds in the corners.

Doyle
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Dward
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 08:31:17 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
You are probably right about the amount of creasing because where I always noticed problems was at the folds in the corners.

Doyle
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Dward
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 08:36:41 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
You are probably right about the amount of creasing because where I always noticed problems was at the folds in the corners.

Doyle


  Yes.  In my experience, creasing the canvas too sharply risks creating cracking, no matter what coating or canvas is used.   My recommendation is to avoid sharply folding the canvas (I draw a pencil line on the back of the canvas to help with alignment instead of creasing the canvas).  I find that if I fold the corners slowly (2-3 seconds) instead of "snapping" the corner folds that I don't get cracking.  Glamour II does seem to dry thoroughly more quickly than ClearShield Type C, but within 24 hours Clearshield no longer seems "sticky".  

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography

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bill t.
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 12:27:02 PM »
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Also helps if your bars have somewhat rounded corners so the canvas doesn't hang up on a sharp edge concentrating the stress at that point.

Like these.  These are excellent stretcher bars, but you have to cut them to length yourself and they don't come milled with the standard tricked out adjustable stretcher bar corners.

http://linenliners.com/products/stretchers/
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Mulis Pictus
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 02:03:31 PM »
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You might also try to grind down a bit the bar edges. I do this on back edges of my bars as they are quite sharp.

This way I don't experience cracking with BC canvas and glamour II. Before I had cracks on some other uncoated canvas. So next time I ground them down and it worked fine for me.

BTW, does anybody have experience with both, glamour II and clearshield? How do they compare? I have only tried glamour II so far.
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namartinnz
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 03:04:50 PM »
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I changed canvas to Breathing Color Chromata White  - even uncoated, creasing it 180 degrees with my fingers I couldn't crack it. Combined with Glamour 2 it's the best canvas/coating combination I've used so far, no cracking after mounting. Of course everyone has their preference for canvas so I'm not saying this is the best canvas to use.

Neal
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 03:13:00 PM by namartinnz » Logged

Dan Berg
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 04:07:06 PM »
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I have 8 or 9 rolls of Epson canvas and am hoping there is no problem with the canvas. Again this checking/splitting is done with my bare hands before the canvas gets near the stretchers. Stretchers have a real nice bull nosed edge so the ones that are stretched show no damage signs on those edges. I have 2 rolls of the Breathing Color Canvas but am awaiting profiles for my new Epson 7900. Anyone heard anything in that regard?
Dan Berg
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 04:08:52 PM by Dan Berg » Logged

Mulis Pictus
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« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 05:05:10 PM »
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Quote from: Dan Berg
I have 8 or 9 rolls of Epson canvas and am hoping there is no problem with the canvas. Again this checking/splitting is done with my bare hands before the canvas gets near the stretchers. Stretchers have a real nice bull nosed edge so the ones that are stretched show no damage signs on those edges. I have 2 rolls of the Breathing Color Canvas but am awaiting profiles for my new Epson 7900. Anyone heard anything in that regard?
Dan Berg

I have a profile for epson 7900/BC chromata white, you might try to use. It is created using ArgyllCMS from 2000 patches. Best used with images in ProPhoto colorspace. I use FineArt papers/Canvas paper setting, density +15% and wide platen gap, "Quality" quality setting. It is created from uncoated patches measuring. (didn't have yet time to coat and remeasure) Once coated it will be more saturated and will probably have better dmax - might be just a bit more into yellow, but didn't experience any unpleasant color shifts so far.

Try it first on some smaller print to see if it will fit your needs.

http://mulis.foo.cz/BC-CW-canvas.icc.zip
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Dan Berg
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« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 05:37:40 PM »
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Quote from: Mulis Pictus
I have a profile for epson 7900/BC chromata white, you might try to use. It is created using ArgyllCMS from 2000 patches. Best used with images in ProPhoto colorspace. I use FineArt papers/Canvas paper setting, density +15% and wide platen gap, "Quality" quality setting. It is created from uncoated patches measuring. (didn't have yet time to coat and remeasure) Once coated it will be more saturated and will probably have better dmax - might be just a bit more into yellow, but didn't experience any unpleasant color shifts so far.

Try it first on some smaller print to see if it will fit your needs.

http://mulis.foo.cz/BC-CW-canvas.icc.zip

Thank you I will give it a try. Please let me know if you would like compensated.
Best Regards
Dan Berg
www.bergscustomfurniture.com
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Bartone
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 12:12:27 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Berg
If you note my above comment the canvas was folded and creased by my hand only. Just an alignment fold to help with the first course of staples. Turned the canvas to look at it before stapling and the hand folded crease was cracked through the ink the entire 24" length. Have not had problems when stretching. Maybe the fold should not have been creased with my hand. I watched the Gallery Stretcher video again and he folds the canvas but does not crease it.
Dan
What gallery stretcher video? Where? When??!! I've the canvas, stretcher bars, canvas pliers, stapler... Anything else needed?

bartone
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Doyle Yoder
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 05:25:06 AM »
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Quote from: Bartone
What gallery stretcher video? Where? When??!! I've the canvas, stretcher bars, canvas pliers, stapler... Anything else needed?

bartone


One of the better ones. http://www.canvas-stretching-machine.com/

Doyle

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Dan Berg
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 05:48:56 AM »
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Quote from: DYP
One of the better ones. http://www.canvas-stretching-machine.com/

Doyle

Yes that is the one I purchased.  60" model.
Dan Berg
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