Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Use of custom profile to print from with no colour management  (Read 4478 times)
rcdurston
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



WWW
« on: January 25, 2009, 11:45:32 AM »
ReplyReply

I'm having someone else print an exhibition for me. He suggested he do a custom paper profile up for the paper I want to use. Then he would send it over and I would correct my image files to the custom icc. After I like what I'm getting, either softproof(probably not) or just proofing off my 2200, I would then convert the image files to his custom icc, resize and sharpen and then send them over to him.

My question is though, would I not just "assign" the profile as opposed to converting it?
Is there less of a chance of a printing mix up on his end if I was to do that?

thanks

r
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9188



WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 12:32:55 PM »
ReplyReply

You want to simulate what he'll get on your printer? This is called cross rendering.

You'll need to convert from the RGB working space to his output profile. Then in that color space, convert to YOUR printer using an Absolute Colorimetric intent. You'll have to trim all the paper white outside the printable area away.

Depending on the quality of the two printer profiles, you'll get close, but without proper profile editing, don't expect a prefect match. Some colors might not fully match depending on gamut issues and again, the quality of the two profiles. But certainly better then guessing!
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
rcdurston
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 02:24:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: digitaldog
You want to simulate what he'll get on your printer? This is called cross rendering.

You'll need to convert from the RGB working space to his output profile. Then in that color space, convert to YOUR printer using an Absolute Colorimetric intent. You'll have to trim all the paper white outside the printable area away.

Depending on the quality of the two printer profiles, you'll get close, but without proper profile editing, don't expect a prefect match. Some colors might not fully match depending on gamut issues and again, the quality of the two profiles. But certainly better then guessing!
So Andrew, is that right that I would send him a converted (to his paper/printer profile) file to print from or would I just assign it?
Logged

digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9188



WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 03:26:57 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: rcdurston
So Andrew, is that right that I would send him a converted (to his paper/printer profile) file to print from or would I just assign it?

Nope, no assigning, converting.


Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
PeterAit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1947



WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 06:58:18 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: rcdurston
I'm having someone else print an exhibition for me. He suggested he do a custom paper profile up for the paper I want to use. Then he would send it over and I would correct my image files to the custom icc. After I like what I'm getting, either softproof(probably not) or just proofing off my 2200, I would then convert the image files to his custom icc, resize and sharpen and then send them over to him.

My question is though, would I not just "assign" the profile as opposed to converting it?
Is there less of a chance of a printing mix up on his end if I was to do that?

thanks

r

I think you are perhaps a little confused about how this all works (as I was not too long ago!). If you get a custom profile for the printer/paper that will be used for your job, you cannot proof your photos by printing them on another printer. That's the whole point of these profiles, to represent the color gamut of a particular printer/paper combination. You would load the custom profile on your system and use it to soft-proof your images (your monitor must be calibrated for this to work properly). I recommend having your printer do a test print and making sure it closely matches your screen, then you can be confident of your results.

Also, you do not "convert" images to a printer profile. Images remain in your working space (usually Adobe RGB or ProPhoto) throughout all editing. A working space differs from a profile in that it is not linked to any particular device such as a monitor or printer. When the image is printed, you will have either PhotoShop or the printer driver do the color management, which means taking the device independent colors in your image and converting them to the right combination and amounts of ink to reproduce that color - or, if the color is outside the printer's gamut, to create something close.

Color management is not a simple topic, but it's really worth putting the necessary effort (and expense) into getting right.

Good luck,

Peter
Logged

Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
View my photos at http://www.peteraitken.com
jackbingham
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 206


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 06:10:21 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PeterAit
I think you are perhaps a little confused about how this all works (as I was not too long ago!). If you get a custom profile for the printer/paper that will be used for your job, you cannot proof your photos by printing them on another printer.

Actually that is not the case at all. If you have profiles for both printers you can simulate the output of one printer on another by converting to the destination printer and then using absolute colormetric to convert again to the proofing printer. Obviously there are limitations because of the characteristics of each printer.

Also, you do not "convert" images to a printer profile.

Not true either. If he is sending files out of the building where you can not assume the conversion will be done, he should convert to the destination printer before sending the files.

Peter
Logged

Jack Bingham
Integrated Color Corp Makers of Coloreyes Display
rcdurston
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 06:21:44 AM »
ReplyReply

Thanks guys
ya
I'm converting my files to his profile
thanks
I understand everything
just wanted to clear up the assign vs. convert
and Andrew cleared that up

thanks again
Logged

PeterAit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1947



WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 09:30:20 AM »
ReplyReply

And it is exactly those limitations that make it impossible to proof one printer on another. Yes, you "can" do it, just like you can shoot closeup football action with a 10mm lens, but it does not work. And, can you please explain how you "convert" an image to a specific printer profile?

Please learn how to reply properly - you should not be putting your responses in the quoted text you are responding to.

Peter
Logged

Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
View my photos at http://www.peteraitken.com
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9188



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 09:39:33 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PeterAit
And it is exactly those limitations that make it impossible to proof one printer on another.

Gamut for one. Most doing cross rendering use a proofer who's gamut is larger than the device they are proofing.

LOTS of people use cross rendering every day. Its what allows one to examine a contract proof and get that color on press. Its what allows us to simulate a proof on screen. Everyone should realize its not 100% but it can be in the high 90's and a very good predictor of the final output.

The best cross rendering I've done requires some profile tuning, usually for the proofing device altering selective colors (pull some yellow out of the reds).

But cross rendering is hardly impossible! Just the opposite, its quite useful.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
rcdurston
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 02:17:06 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: digitaldog
Gamut for one. Most doing cross rendering use a proofer who's gamut is larger than the device they are proofing.

LOTS of people use cross rendering every day. Its what allows one to examine a contract proof and get that color on press. Its what allows us to simulate a proof on screen. Everyone should realize its not 100% but it can be in the high 90's and a very good predictor of the final output.

The best cross rendering I've done requires some profile tuning, usually for the proofing device altering selective colors (pull some yellow out of the reds).

But cross rendering is hardly impossible! Just the opposite, its quite useful.
Thanks Andrew
I have Bruce's book, it sits beside my display and I pull it out every month or so just to read random chapters.
Logged

jackbingham
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 206


WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 03:57:27 PM »
ReplyReply


"And it is exactly those limitations that make it impossible to proof one printer on another. Yes, you "can" do it, just like you can shoot closeup football action with a 10mm lens, but it does not work."

You know we've been looking at "contract" proofs for years that are designed to simulate a commercial press. With color management employed it is indeed being done every day. Proofing one printer on another, as Andrew states is no different than proofing a printer on your monitor. So if what you say is true I think you should just give up now because according to you it is all impossible. Throw away your monitor and calibration tools cause it's all a waste of time. Those of us who have been doing this for the last 8-10 years seem to be making it work fairly well.

"And, can you please explain how you "convert" an image to a specific printer profile?"

Sure Image/mode/convert...pick your profile and rendering intent, click ok at least in my version of Pshop.
Logged

Jack Bingham
Integrated Color Corp Makers of Coloreyes Display
PeterAit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1947



WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 04:43:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: jackbingham
"And it is exactly those limitations that make it impossible to proof one printer on another. Yes, you "can" do it, just like you can shoot closeup football action with a 10mm lens, but it does not work."

You know we've been looking at "contract" proofs for years that are designed to simulate a commercial press. With color management employed it is indeed being done every day. Proofing one printer on another, as Andrew states is no different than proofing a printer on your monitor. So if what you say is true I think you should just give up now because according to you it is all impossible. Throw away your monitor and calibration tools cause it's all a waste of time. Those of us who have been doing this for the last 8-10 years seem to be making it work fairly well.

"And, can you please explain how you "convert" an image to a specific printer profile?"

Sure Image/mode/convert...pick your profile and rendering intent, click ok at least in my version of Pshop.

Thanks for explanations.

Peter
Logged

Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
View my photos at http://www.peteraitken.com
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad