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Author Topic: canon 5d mk11 in Antarctica  (Read 119706 times)
Slough
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« Reply #160 on: November 04, 2009, 08:13:34 AM »
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Quote from: thecyclists
I'm one of those unlucky owners of a 5DmkII. It failed after 4 weeks. As I have written before, until the day it failed it has been used in warm nice weather only.

I contacted specialists in production of printed circuit boards (PCB) and showed them the pictures of the damage. He told me that this damage has nothing to do with water damages. It must have been something else that has damaged the PCB and that this "something" must has been present when the camera was produced, unless it has been opened later.

I wrote a letter to Canon in Norway with this claims. In the letter I ask how they can tell that this is is a "severe moisture and water damage". After waiting several weeks for the answer, I got a short email without any answers at all. They do not want to answer my questions!

I just wonder why they do not want to answer my questions...

Are you sure it is not water + salt damage?

Otherwise it sounds as if you have grounds for legal action. Could be costly if you fail though.
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eronald
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« Reply #161 on: November 04, 2009, 08:17:10 AM »
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Quote from: NigelC
So essentially, what this whole "5D2 Antartica" episode could amount to is a batch manufacuring fault? An impurity in the solder for example?

The images I saw seem to indicate faulty fabrication. I'm no authority, however.
In some case it may be simpler to write the issue off to experience, or maybe get a cheap no-fault replacement from CPS.

Edmund
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 08:18:34 AM by eronald » Logged
thecyclists
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« Reply #162 on: November 04, 2009, 08:23:05 AM »
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Quote from: Slough
Are you sure it is not water + salt damage?

Otherwise it sounds as if you have grounds for legal action. Could be costly if you fail though.

I cannot tell for sure, but if it is salt, it must have been there when I bought the camera. I have not been near anything that is salt at all. The camera has not been in contact with water. The closest the camera has been to water is the two hours before it failed - when it was stored inside a plastic bag during rain. The rain had stopped long before I took the camera out of the bag. And both the camera and the inside of the plastic bag looked dry at that time.

The expert I talked with say that if the damaged has been caused by water in combination with electrical flow you would have seen "bridges" between to contacts. A "bridge" caused by electrical current would be wide close to the contact points and narrow in the middle of the contact point. He could not see any evidence of such "bridges" on the pictures.

He also told me that he have seen a lot of damaged like this before - damages caused by chemicals.
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Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #163 on: November 04, 2009, 08:25:36 AM »
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Quote from: eronald
The images I saw seem to indicate faulty fabrication. I'm no authority, however.
In some case it may be simpler to write the issue off to experience, or maybe get a cheap no-fault replacement from CPS.

Edmund
The circuit board part of this equation is shown here
    http://petetek.blogspot.com/2009/07/canon-...ii-exposed.html  
 by someone who took apart and repaired one of the failed cameras...I had bookmarked it as I frequently work in fog, mist and marshy areas and started to really worry about my copy...no problems yet but... I tend to use the loose towel method and transport in backpack. When I carry on tripod I wrap loosely with a breathable jacket...
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mrenters
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« Reply #164 on: November 04, 2009, 08:32:14 AM »
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Quote from: NigelC
So essentially, what this whole "5D2 Antartica" episode could amount to is a batch manufacuring fault? An impurity in the solder for example?

It certainly is possible.  The Antarctica trip was in January and all 5D2 cameras that were on the trip must have been from early batches as the camera hadn't been out that long.  Our two cameras that failed had serial numbers only 2 apart and another one was around 5000 off of our numbers as I recall.

I find it curious that only 5D2 cameras had this problem on the Antarctica trip - no other Canons and no cameras from any other manufacturers.

What bothers me more than the fact that the cameras failed was how Canon dealt (or didn't) with the situation. My camera was in the shop twice for a total of 3 months out of the 9 that I owned it and they still didn't fix it properly.  Even getting them to respond to phone calls or emails was impossible. It isn't the type of customer support I want to encourage with future purchases.

Martin
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Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #165 on: November 04, 2009, 08:53:45 AM »
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Quote from: eronald
The images I saw seem to indicate faulty fabrication. I'm no authority, however.
In some case it may be simpler to write the issue off to experience, or maybe get a cheap no-fault replacement from CPS.

Edmund



Here is the main culprit, it was the board on the bottom of the body. There was corrosion on 3 of the ribbon connector areas and 2 of the surface mount ICs. I carefully cleaned them off and sprayed the entire board down with a 0 residue PCB contact cleaner. The camera has been flawless ever since, but only time will tell, and with water damage you never know for sure, corrosion can kill very slowly and create odd issues with systems, in this case the buttons acted irrational and certain shooting modes would do different things.

The above quote is from the tech article linked above...It includes pictures of the offending areas...sure would seem to support manuf flaw...
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 08:55:15 AM by psheleyimages » Logged

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thecyclists
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« Reply #166 on: November 04, 2009, 09:48:44 AM »
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Quote from: psheleyimages
The circuit board part of this equation is shown here
    http://petetek.blogspot.com/2009/07/canon-...ii-exposed.html  
 by someone who took apart and repaired one of the failed cameras...I had bookmarked it as I frequently work in fog, mist and marshy areas and started to really worry about my copy...no problems yet but... I tend to use the loose towel method and transport in backpack. When I carry on tripod I wrap loosely with a breathable jacket...

Interesting, he say
Quote
Here is the main culprit, it was the board on the bottom of the body. There was corrosion on 3 of the ribbon connector areas and 2 of the surface mount ICs

It's the same place where the damages are on my body. But my body has never been in water...
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Patricia Sheley
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« Reply #167 on: November 04, 2009, 10:20:10 AM »
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Quote from: thecyclists
Interesting, he say


It's the same place where the damages are on my body. But my body has never been in water...

Has anyone compiled a list of the serial #'s of the failed units?
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thecyclists
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« Reply #168 on: November 04, 2009, 10:41:33 AM »
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Quote from: psheleyimages
Has anyone compiled a list of the serial #'s of the failed units?

I can do that - if people are willing to share the serial numbers with me. Just send me a personal message with the number and perhaps a short story about the failure.
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uncommondepth
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« Reply #169 on: November 04, 2009, 11:13:54 AM »
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Quote from: thecyclists
I can do that - if people are willing to share the serial numbers with me. Just send me a personal message with the number and perhaps a short story about the failure.

Here's my story again: I had my camera fail in late August of this year (bought it in February). I was using it in rainy conditions with a protective cover on it. The camera itself never got wet. If you pressed the shutter the camera would just fire repeatedly until you took the battery out. All other controls were inoperable. I immediately went and found this thread on the forum, so knew what was going on. I put the camera in front of a heater to dry it out as quickly as possible. I haven't had any issues since, but I also haven't used it heavily, or been in a humid environment again. I'm too scared to take it out if it's raining or snowing.  I have not sent it for repairs yet as I need to get a replacement first.

I find it weird that so many people are trying to defend the camera failure since I don't hear about other models or other brands with the same or similar problems. It's one make and model having this problem. To me that means there's a flaw. I've used other Canon cameras under the same conditions (and worse) and I know hundreds (probably thousands) of other photographers are using their Canon's under worse conditions without any issues. Some cameras in this series are flawed. Canon needs to do a recall, or replace them, or something. Or we need to get together for action if Canon won't take action on their own.

Cheers,
Roberta
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thecyclists
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« Reply #170 on: November 19, 2009, 06:32:39 AM »
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My camera has been inspected by a neutral person that has concluded that water has penetrated into the camera through screw-holes and the area close to the eye for the camera strap.

Based on this, my question is - if this camera is suppose to have improved weather sealing, how can water penetrate this areas? It sound's like a very weak point.

As I have written before - my 30D has been out more than once in rain without any failure or damages at all. And the 30D does not have any sealing at all.

In my opinion, the weather sealing on the 5D mkII is not worth a cent.
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Hokey
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« Reply #171 on: November 22, 2009, 09:17:44 PM »
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This is perhaps slightly OT, but I had my 5DII in Brunei for 3 months, and had NOTHING but grief.

It never got rained on, or even damp, but the persistent high humidity did damage anyway.  After a month there it stopped working and had to go back to Canon... where they replaced pretty much everything except the shutter (including the motherboard and so on)... then just before I came back it stopped working AGAIN, and they had to do the same level of repairs... everything except the shutter.

I was not even there as a photog, the camera spent 99% of the time in a locked Pelican in my 5-star hotel suite.

I had it sent straight back to me in Perth, and it had been fine ever since.

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thecyclists
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« Reply #172 on: November 23, 2009, 05:37:28 AM »
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Quote from: Hokey
This is perhaps slightly OT, but I had my 5DII in Brunei for 3 months, and had NOTHING but grief.

It never got rained on, or even damp, but the persistent high humidity did damage anyway.  After a month there it stopped working and had to go back to Canon... where they replaced pretty much everything except the shutter (including the motherboard and so on)... then just before I came back it stopped working AGAIN, and they had to do the same level of repairs... everything except the shutter.

I was not even there as a photog, the camera spent 99% of the time in a locked Pelican in my 5-star hotel suite.

I had it sent straight back to me in Perth, and it had been fine ever since.

Did Canon say anyhting about what caused the failure?
Did you have to pay for the repair?
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uncommondepth
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« Reply #173 on: February 24, 2010, 04:16:55 PM »
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Has anything new been happening? Has anyone gathered information on serial numbers or anything else? I finally sent my camera back for repairs. Just got it back yesterday - they couldn't find any issues so nothing was done. Anyone want to buy a Canon 5D MKII? I think it's time for me to look into a Nikon!
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thecyclists
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« Reply #174 on: April 30, 2010, 02:07:23 AM »
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Quote from: uncommondepth
Has anything new been happening? Has anyone gathered information on serial numbers or anything else? I finally sent my camera back for repairs. Just got it back yesterday - they couldn't find any issues so nothing was done. Anyone want to buy a Canon 5D MKII? I think it's time for me to look into a Nikon!

My camera has been examined by a neutral company, which concluded that small amount of water has penetrated the camera body through the eyelet for the camera strap on the right side. Canon has refused to comment this and answer my initial question about how the water came into the camera body.

I later got my hand on a drawing that show where the weather sealing is, I found out that there is (according to the drawing made by Canon) no weather sealing around the eyelet. Through contacts I told Canon about this and I also told them that I will never give up this "fight". Within one week I got the message I wanted - they replaced the body.

At that day the camera failed I put the camera in a plastic bag to protected it against the rain I knew would come. To avoid having the camera laying in the bottom of the bag (in case water should get into the bag) the camera strap was partly out of the plastic bag, so that I could hold the camera lifted above the bottom of the plastic bag. The water has followed the camera strap an got inside the bag and into the camera body.

I don't know what kind of weather sealing I should see around the eyelet, but the pictures taken by the neutral company does not show anything that look like a sealing.
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stever
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« Reply #175 on: May 01, 2010, 10:32:44 AM »
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that's quite interesting

i've been in fairly high humidity on dive trips to Indonesia and the Phillipines with no issues, but have taken care to avoid condensation

going to the arctic in July and wonder if a little silicone around the base of the strap lugs would be in order?
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stever
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« Reply #176 on: May 01, 2010, 12:15:00 PM »
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left or right lug?
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thecyclists
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« Reply #177 on: May 02, 2010, 12:36:03 AM »
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Quote from: stever
left or right lug?

I assume that lug is the same as we call eyelet? It's the right one where the water came into the camera body.
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stever
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« Reply #178 on: May 02, 2010, 12:43:02 PM »
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makes sense if there is no internal seal - Canon has designed a nice pocket to collect moisture around the base of the left lug/eyelet, the left side does not look nearly so vulnerable

i'll have to have a think about putting silicone around the base - the downside is that if you don't do a good job or it doesn't stick for whatever reason, then moisture can still enter and then be trapped
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thecyclists
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« Reply #179 on: May 03, 2010, 08:30:39 AM »
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Quote from: stever
makes sense if there is no internal seal - Canon has designed a nice pocket to collect moisture around the base of the left lug/eyelet, the left side does not look nearly so vulnerable

i'll have to have a think about putting silicone around the base - the downside is that if you don't do a good job or it doesn't stick for whatever reason, then moisture can still enter and then be trapped

A friend of my also suggested silicone around the lug/eyelet. In my opinion it should not be necessary if they wanted this camera to be the #1 camera for landscape photographer (they do not take pictures in nice weather only). In their advertising for this camera, they told us how much they have improved the weather sealing.

My 30D, which does not have any weather sealing at all, has been used in rain several times without any problems. It's years since the first time it was used in bad weather. Still working fine after 73000 shots.
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