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Author Topic: Color Space Comparisons  (Read 4343 times)
MBehrens
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« on: February 06, 2009, 06:35:30 PM »
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The EIZO web site provides a Profile Analyzer that allows you to upload profiles and graphically compare them to each other along with the set of their product profiles.

http://www.eizo.com/microsite/start.html

Is it a valid comparison to upload my display profile created with ColorEyes Display Pro, a ProPhoto i.e. LR working color space profile, and a printer profile for my printer to make comparisons between the three? Or am I in some way comparing apples and oranges due to the nature of the different devices?

Since they are all ICC/ICM profiles I'm thinking it is a valid comparison. Its pretty startling to see the differences, particularly the enormity of the ProPhoto colorspace (working) compared to what I can see on screen (my display profile is very close to the CG301W) and in my case even less that can be printed.

Thanks for any input or conversation.
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PeterAit
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 08:32:49 PM »
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Quote from: MBehrens
The EIZO web site provides a Profile Analyzer that allows you to upload profiles and graphically compare them to each other along with the set of their product profiles.

http://www.eizo.com/microsite/start.html

Is it a valid comparison to upload my display profile created with ColorEyes Display Pro, a ProPhoto i.e. LR working color space profile, and a printer profile for my printer to make comparisons between the three? Or am I in some way comparing apples and oranges due to the nature of the different devices?

Since they are all ICC/ICM profiles I'm thinking it is a valid comparison. Its pretty startling to see the differences, particularly the enormity of the ProPhoto colorspace (working) compared to what I can see on screen (my display profile is very close to the CG301W) and in my case even less that can be printed.

Thanks for any input or conversation.

Yes, it's valid - although it can be depressing when you see how small your printer/paper profile is compared with the others! But, comparing profiles has limited usefulness. What's really useful is to be able to compare the colors in a specific image with a profile. Does the web site do this? I use ColorThink for this purpose, and it's very useful.

Peter
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Peter
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MBehrens
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 11:38:41 PM »
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It provides a LAB graph, nothing more. You can certainly see where the short comings are though. Its helped me to relax a bit in trying to get prints to match exactly. There are certain areas that the printer just cannot get to.

Is there somewhere to go to be able to preview profiles for displays (other than EIZO of course) and printers prior to purchase? Is this something that a forum like LL would endeavor to do, a library of display and printer profiles. That could be helpful, or set unrealistic expectations...
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2009, 06:51:24 AM »
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Quote from: MBehrens
It provides a LAB graph, nothing more. You can certainly see where the short comings are though. Its helped me to relax a bit in trying to get prints to match exactly. There are certain areas that the printer just cannot get to.

Is there somewhere to go to be able to preview profiles for displays (other than EIZO of course) and printers prior to purchase? Is this something that a forum like LL would endeavor to do, a library of display and printer profiles. That could be helpful, or set unrealistic expectations...

1. There is no such thing as getting prints to match exactly. You are comparing a direct transmission of light with a reflected transmission of light and the two are just different. No amount of colour management will change that fact.

2. You can come a good part of the way to getting a workable matching by making sure that you view your monitor image with softproofing active and "Simulate Paper White" selected in the softproof options.

3. Every paper/printer combination has different characteristics and needs its own custom profile - if even limited to a generic profile for the combination, and given the very large number of such combinations, it isn't reasonable to expect any one source to generate and store a profile for every such combination on the market. And then there are all the displays.........

4.Chromix "ColorThink" ColorThink is a software package that would enable you to compare profiles - for about USD 400 upward.

5. It is not only the size of the colour gamut which differs between displays and printer/paper combinations but also the shape. A modern Epson printer will print certain hues that are beyond ARGB(98) colour space, and others that are less. Most displays are about sRGB gamut, some nowadays reaching ARGB(98), so printing technology has reached the point where an srGB display will not necessarily show everything the printer will reproduce.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2009, 08:39:46 AM »
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Quote from: MarkDS
4.Chromix "ColorThink" ColorThink is a software package that would enable you to compare profiles - for about USD 400 upward.

The $99, non Pro version should do the job too.
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Andrew Rodney
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 09:00:48 AM »
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Good point Andrew - but the Chromix pricing page shows only the Pro versions. I couldn't find the 99 dollar version. What did I miss?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 09:25:28 AM »
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Quote from: MarkDS
Good point Andrew - but the Chromix pricing page shows only the Pro versions. I couldn't find the 99 dollar version. What did I miss?

Price has gone up to $149:

http://www2.chromix.com/colorgear/shop/pro...11A14wNyTC15959
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Andrew Rodney
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JeffKohn
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 11:56:05 AM »
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I found ColorThink 2 to be a huge disappointment, most of the useful stuff is in the overpriced "pro" version. BTW Vista x64 users don't bother, it doesn't run on that OS.

Funny thing about the Eizo microsite's profile comparer, it won't recognize profies created by Eizo's own ColorNavigator software.
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whawn
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 01:34:23 PM »
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Quote from: JeffKohn
I found ColorThink 2 to be a huge disappointment, most of the useful stuff is in the overpriced "pro" version. BTW Vista x64 users don't bother, it doesn't run on that OS.
A useful and much less expensive alternative is Norman Koren's 'Gamutvision.'  I'm not certain it runs on 64 bit, though.
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Walter Hawn -- Casper, Wyoming
MBehrens
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2009, 06:22:11 PM »
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Quote from: MarkDS
1. There is no such thing as getting prints to match exactly.

2. You can come a good part of the way ... with softproofing active and "Simulate Paper White" selected in the softproof options.

3. Every paper/printer combination has different characteristics and needs its own custom profile

4.Chromix "ColorThink" ... USD 400 upward.

5. It is not only the size of the colour gamut which differs between displays and printer/paper combinations but also the shape.

1. I understand, additive vs. subtractive. Visualizing the difference has given me a new perspective in addition to the physical differences of the light transmission.

2. I use LR for all of my printing, no softproofing. Thanks for the tips though.

3. It would be a big task, agreed. Thinking more of a resource that a large community could add to and over time a large library could be collected. But what would represent a "standard" etc. probably not feasible.

4. I'm on Vista 64. For my needs the EIZO site works fine.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2009, 08:04:31 PM »
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There's also a simple, free gamut viewer:
http://www.tglc.com/english/PerfX/3D_Gamut_Viewer.html

It doesn't even come close to magnificent ColorThink, but it's more convinient than Eizo micro site
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 08:07:41 PM by Czornyj » Logged

pherold
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 07:48:39 PM »
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Steve Upton (of Chromix) comments on the differences between different graphing tools here:
[a href=\'index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\']http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Color_Management_Myths_26-28[/a]

Long before I was employed at Chromix I loved using Colorthink 2 (the $149 version) especially because of the ability to bring in images and graph them relative to the profiles.
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gianfini
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 01:09:20 PM »
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Quote from: pherold
Steve Upton (of Chromix) comments on the differences between different graphing tools here:
[a href=\'index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\']http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Color_Management_Myths_26-28[/a]

Long before I was employed at Chromix I loved using Colorthink 2 (the $149 version) especially because of the ability to bring in images and graph them relative to the profiles.

GAMUT VISION allows you as well to map images to profile, it shows Delta E and Delta C after mapping as well as plots image colors into gamut

g
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