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Author Topic: LIGHTroom 2 ( printing to a lab )  (Read 3180 times)
ponso
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« on: February 11, 2009, 11:47:56 AM »
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I’m almost understanding it...  this whole color management thing….  I get the soft proofing thing with a profile for a lab, that part I get.  I use PS3.  I know the difference between “assign” and “convert” in PS.  What I can’t find any place on the web and when I find something close, it isn’t clear to me.  When im in the PRINT MODUAL (image not soft proofed) in LR2 what happens to the profile from the lab?  does it get embedded or does it actually convert the file (image) to that profile.  I’ve read that if you embedded a profile to a image the lab printers ignore it.  And if LR2 does convert to that profile does that mean it’s still necessary to soft proof.  If I still have to use PS for soft proof what’s the fastest way to sync all files in LR so it has all the curves adjustment.     "you know what, maybe i dont get it...."         (and yes I did buy FROM CAMERA TO PRINT)  


thank you
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ponso
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 05:49:16 PM »
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i dont believe it...   not one reply.  am i missing something?  is this a dump Q:
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PeterAit
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 08:25:17 PM »
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Quote from: ponso
i dont believe it...   not one reply.  am i missing something?  is this a dump Q:

You are missing at least 2 things:

1) The many helpful people on this list have lives and jobs - they do not hover over their computers just waiting for questions from you to answer.

2) Posting the same question in 2 topics is generally frowned upon.

Peter
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Peter
"Photographic technique is a means to an end, never the end itself."
View my photos at http://www.peteraitken.com
ponso
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 08:36:07 PM »
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Quote from: PeterAit
You are missing at least 2 things:

1) The many helpful people on this list have lives and jobs - they do not hover over their computers just waiting for questions from you to answer.

2) Posting the same question in 2 topics is generally frowned upon.

Peter
you're right... i'm a jerk
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 08:29:17 AM »
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Quote from: ponso
When im in the PRINT MODUAL (image not soft proofed) in LR2 what happens to the profile from the lab?

Nothing really. You can't soft proof as you've discovered. You can export from the Print Module to a JPEG for lab use. Does the lab even allow you to apply it, converting the data or do they demand sRGB? If the later, the lab and the profile are of little use. LR is really designed for direct printing from your host system.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 10:03:59 AM »
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Adding a bit to what Andrew said, LR uses a colour space akin to ProPhoto with which you do your image edits while in LR. The program is designed so that you do not need to worry about what profile is embedded in the image as long as you are working it within Lightroom (This is laid out in Martin Evening's excellent book on LR2.) As Andrew said, you cannot softproof in LR. (We all hope this limitation will be changed in a future program upgrade.) On exporting the file to Photoshop, where it can be soft-proofed, you do have options regarding colour space and bit depth. Whether you print at home directly from LR or send the image to a lab just after exporting it from LR, you still have no control over the appearance of the printed image. If you want to have that control, which it seems you do, you need to do your finishing luminosity and colour adjustments in Photoshop with Softproof active. For doing the adjustments under softproof, you would need to tell the softproof which printer profile it should simulate. The ICC profile you would need in this case must come from the lab, if they have one they can share with you. The lab should tell you HOW they want the image delivered (i.e. with or without an embedded profile - they may for example just specify sRGB colour space) and they should give you their printer profile if possible, which you would install in your profiles folder so that you can call it up in Softproof, and adjust your image accordingly. For any of this to work as expected, of course your display also needs to be calibrated and profiled so that it accurately reproduces the file numbers as you make your adjustments under softproof.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
ponso
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 11:49:30 AM »
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Hi digitaldo, Hi MarkDS, thanks for the great reply.

ok this is what i got.  but first, i should of mentioned that my monitor is calibrated and profiled using spider3 and i do have lab profiles.  ok first i adjusted my pics in LR,  then in the print mod saved it with the lab profile and one in sRGB profile.  had both developed(printed) and what i found was that both pictures looked totally different.  i went further and open PS and with the same picture from LR, went to the LIBRARY MOD exported as a sRGB, 16bit.  now in PS, i changed to bit to 8bit, turned ON soft proof for that lab and what i found out was that the print with the lab profile looked exactly like the monitor with soft proof turned on (no adjustment made. just turn on soft proof with CTRL + Y  i use windows)  to me this all means. just do it like before, use PS.  since im new to LR i thought there was a faster way to get this done. i was wrong...

digitaldo, MarkDS can i ask you, whats your color management work flow as far as printing exactly what you see on the monitor?

thanks
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 12:13:38 PM »
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Quote from: ponso
Hi digitaldo, Hi MarkDS, thanks for the great reply.

ok this is what i got.  but first, i should of mentioned that my monitor is calibrated and profiled using spider3 and i do have lab profiles.  ok first i adjusted my pics in LR,  then in the print mod saved it with the lab profile and one in sRGB profile.  had both developed(printed) and what i found was that both pictures looked totally different.  i went further and open PS and with the same picture from LR, went to the LIBRARY MOD exported as a sRGB, 16bit.  now in PS, i changed to bit to 8bit, turned ON soft proof for that lab and what i found out was that the print with the lab profile looked exactly like the monitor with soft proof turned on (no adjustment made. just turn on soft proof with CTRL + Y  i use windows)  to me this all means. just do it like before, use PS.  since im new to LR i thought there was a faster way to get this done. i was wrong...

digitaldo, MarkDS can i ask you, whats your color management work flow as far as printing exactly what you see on the monitor?

thanks

Good - so now you know your answer - you have the workflow that achieves your objective.

Re your question about my workflow: I do my own printing - never use a lab - but the principle is identical. I maximize the amount of image adjustment I can do in LR because it is the least destructive image adjustment process (same for Camera Raw BTW) and has some very neat features. I don't worry about profiles or printing at this stage. Once I've used LR as much as it allows and I need, I then export the file to Photoshop as a ProPhoto 16-bit image. By this time, most of them need very little more work on luminance and colour. I activate softproof using the profile I had made for the paper and printer I'm using (Ilford Gold Fibre Silk in an Epson 3800), I make sure "Simulate Paper White" is active in the softproof, do the final luminance and colour adjustments with this softproof condition active, then do output sharpening with PK Sharpener Inket Output Sharpener, and then send the file to print with Photoshop Manages Color active in the Photoshop print dialog and "No Color Management" selected in the printer driver dialog. It's about as straightforward as that and reliable.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
ponso
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 12:49:01 PM »
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this is all really coming together. thanks MarkDS
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