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Author Topic: Z3100 Roller Marks in Blacks on Hahnemuhle Bamboo  (Read 2023 times)
dandeliondigital
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« on: February 15, 2009, 05:26:16 PM »
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Hi Z3100 users,
Anyone out there using their Z3100 to print on Hahnemuhle Bamboo Paper?

I've been doing a lot of testing on a large number of Baryta's and just did a few prints on Hahnemuhle Bamboo!

I am getting real obvious roller marks from my tan pinch rollers. And I thought that only happened on Glossy and especially Baryta Papers, as it did with my old black pinch rollers!

Anyway, I installed profiles for the Hahnemuhle papers I am testing from the Hahnemuhle site for the Z3100 rather than build my own because I'm doing the tests on letter size paper. Color is nice, and accurate, but my large expanse of very black ink is very distinctly marked. Do you think Hahnemuhle could have used incorrect ink limit settings? Is there a trick to this?

Can I adjust the ink limits on a profile supplied by a third party. I know I can do that when I create my own, but I'm not sure if it's something you can tweak.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, but I really do not want to switch to Epson ;-)

So long for now, TOM

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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 05:07:01 AM »
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Quote from: dandeliondigital
Hi Z3100 users,
Anyone out there using their Z3100 to print on Hahnemuhle Bamboo Paper?

I've been doing a lot of testing on a large number of Baryta's and just did a few prints on Hahnemuhle Bamboo!

I am getting real obvious roller marks from my tan pinch rollers. And I thought that only happened on Glossy and especially Baryta Papers, as it did with my old black pinch rollers!

Anyway, I installed profiles for the Hahnemuhle papers I am testing from the Hahnemuhle site for the Z3100 rather than build my own because I'm doing the tests on letter size paper. Color is nice, and accurate, but my large expanse of very black ink is very distinctly marked. Do you think Hahnemuhle could have used incorrect ink limit settings? Is there a trick to this?

Can I adjust the ink limits on a profile supplied by a third party. I know I can do that when I create my own, but I'm not sure if it's something you can tweak.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, but I really do not want to switch to Epson ;-)

So long for now, TOM

This surprises me. On similar paper I have not seen marks even with the black pinch wheels. They showed up on Innova semi-gloss and gloss though. I have changed the rolls to the tan colored ones recently and have to check several fiber-baryte papers soon so can not comment how they perform yet. What I noticed before the change is that it often are some rolls that mark the paper and not all. Either the rolls have uneven pressure due to different spring tensions in the clamping or the rolls are not aligned well (the thin axles bended?). Any sign of that ? The paper handle doesn't let you change the pressure on the paper as it really has to be fully brought forward to get the printer in action. A change in pressure may also change the transport speed so it isn't recommended either. Another thing is that when using smaller sheets/rolls the pinch rollers that are not on the paper roll against the paper transport axle that has quite an abrasive surface. When replacing the black pinch rollers I noticed that the ones to the left were less smooth (more grey) in surface than the ones on the right. If you let a wider (waste) sheet run through the printer without printing before starting a print on the Bamboo is the effect then less visible ?  I'm on thin ice here but am curious at the same time ( a bad combination).


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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georgek
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 05:16:01 AM »
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Hi TOM,

This is one of the papers I use and I haven't got any problems. I've got the new pinch rollers with media setting fine art paper and an iSis profile. Check temperature and humidity as well. PM me if you need the profile.

Best
George
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deanwork
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2009, 09:29:02 PM »
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The media presets in the HP driver also influence the roller gap along with ink limits. Try the >250 gsm media setting on the bamboo. I once had William Turner on a large roll scratch from the bottom of the heads with the Hahnemhle Textured rag setting until I tried this thicker media setting. After that it was fixed. Not only that but the added dmax from that setting really helped with the large black backgrounds I was using. Really outstanding and smooth dmax. Some PK ink is added to the tritone when neutral black and white is being done.  On this deep sepia edition it make the the older MK Epson prints I had made before look so weak in comparison. Since the Bamboo paper is not so great in the dmax area that might help you there also. But you might not care about that with this paper thought.

john





Quote from: georgek
Hi TOM,

This is one of the papers I use and I haven't got any problems. I've got the new pinch rollers with media setting fine art paper and an iSis profile. Check temperature and humidity as well. PM me if you need the profile.

Best
George
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 07:24:54 AM »
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Hi John,
Well, "roller gap along with ink limits" are actually the first thing I checked into, and I am using the Thick FAP>250 setting and max ink - (Dmax looks good on the test except for the marks).

Because I was using a profile provided by Hahnnemuhler, (and because I had never used profiles others than those I had made myself before this), I had the thought to double check that setting also. It's easy to change the characteristics of a given profile in the HP Printer Utility, BTW. But it doesn't help, and IMO it's the combination of factors of rollers, ink and paper chemistry that are making the perfect storm for making these marks. I posted this because I was curious to know if others are getting this. It's so blatant in solid black areas in my case that you can't miss it. YMMV, but I'd like to know others status when it comes to marks. BTW, other Hahnnemuhler papers of near identical weight and "feel" print perfectly without any marks.

Anyone know if Hahnnemuhler has a customer support contact?

BTW, I brought this up with a tech at HP via the phone, but "I'm not familiar with that paper," and "I'm not sure if that paper is 'supported' with that printer" where the replies. For me every slightly non-standard end use of my HPZ is an episode of "Star Trek," with that "to boldly go where no man has gone before" parameter.

FYI, I'm using the HP postscript driver when this happens, and that is yet another "twist" because most people will be using the PCL3 driver. To my knowledge, the QUAD inks are only in play with the PCL3 driver but isn't that only with grayscale, but I'm not sure about HP's PK, MK variations. Come to think of it we should start a thread on the topic of "PK, MK & Quad Inks: Settings and Papers" on the HP Z & Zps, and see if anyone would be willing to enlighten us about that elusive topic. It sure has been kept under wraps, or else I am missing out because I haven't come across anything explaining this clearly. The shear number of variables goes off the chart and HP's helpful literature with reference to working with custom papers seems out of date with reference to firmware and model-the ps printer has always been a weird variant that is never addressed. Now that the Z3200 & Z3200ps are out, the Z3100 is the becoming a printer with "issues of abandonment." Sorry, but it's just too difficult to "upgrade" as much as the manufacturers want us to, and IMO, it's very unprofessional. I used my HP 2500CP for nearly 8 years.

Thanks for the interest, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: deanwork
The media presets in the HP driver also influence the roller gap along with ink limits. Try the >250 gsm media setting on the bamboo. I once had William Turner on a large roll scratch from the bottom of the heads with the Hahnemhle Textured rag setting until I tried this thicker media setting. After that it was fixed. Not only that but the added dmax from that setting really helped with the large black backgrounds I was using. Really outstanding and smooth dmax. Some PK ink is added to the tritone when neutral black and white is being done.  On this deep sepia edition it make the the older MK Epson prints I had made before look so weak in comparison. Since the Bamboo paper is not so great in the dmax area that might help you there also. But you might not care about that with this paper thought.

john
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