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Author Topic: More Details on the Leica S2  (Read 66972 times)
Snook
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2009, 06:29:24 AM »
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Quote from: KevinA
I am shooting aerials. Yes I know a MF can do it very well. When I am flying I have quoted a fixed price for the job and I will be doing a number of jobs per trip. A helicopter is costing 20. per minute. I tried a Leaf system with a zoom and quite frankly it was like a drainpipe full of cement.... heavy, Hasselblad was better but only 1/800th of a second, plenty fast enough most of the time but not always if you need a long lens and it's a bit breezy, plus I'm still not covinced by the hype hasselblad tries to spin. That leaves the Mamiya and Phaseone I am tempted by this, it's the best for me handling MF available as of now. The Leica S still looks much better for me. I also shoot lots of images for my library when I'm flying, having a couple of bodies with zooms really helps. If I was always stuck with primes (I do use them as well) my profit margin would take a dip and also not having high iso available for evening and night work would not be good. Most of the time 35mm does what I need, if I could have the MF quality with 35mm versatility I would have the best of both Worlds.

Kevin.

Are you think about which back??
I think it is pretty clear that the newest 35mm digital cameras are equaling MF. Unless your thinking of maybe the P65.

In anycase the Big difference I see is H body can sync with flash up to 800/th and Mamiya is only 125/th which really sux..
Still do not understand why there is no way to make some kind of adaptor to use the Old leaf shutter lens with the newer bodies?
Mamiya will take FOREVER to release a LS lens! Maybe with some of these new Pocket Poppers or Pocket wizards the syncing speed might go up. I do not see how that will work.
In any case I think the Leica is to late and wrong timing (re:world economic crisis)
Hopefully the Dentist industry is doing well....
Snook
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bcooter
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2009, 08:45:54 AM »
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Quote from: KevinA
if I could have the MF quality with 35mm versatility I would have the best of both Worlds.

Kevin.


D3X

Make your life easy and save more than 1/2 the money.

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KevinA
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2009, 10:10:43 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
D3X

Make your life easy and save more than 1/2 the money.

I have a 1DsmkIII I doubt in the real world there is much difference between the two, it's 35mm lenses that let the game down for me. I'm not over sold on AF either good for sport no doubt.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2009, 10:16:01 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 10:27:14 AM by KevinA » Logged

Kevin.
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2009, 10:24:21 AM »
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Quote from: Snook
Are you think about which back??
I think it is pretty clear that the newest 35mm digital cameras are equaling MF. Unless your thinking of maybe the P65.

In anycase the Big difference I see is H body can sync with flash up to 800/th and Mamiya is only 125/th which really sux..
Still do not understand why there is no way to make some kind of adaptor to use the Old leaf shutter lens with the newer bodies?
Mamiya will take FOREVER to release a LS lens! Maybe with some of these new Pocket Poppers or Pocket wizards the syncing speed might go up. I do not see how that will work.
In any case I think the Leica is to late and wrong timing (re:world economic crisis)
Hopefully the Dentist industry is doing well....
Snook

Generally I don't use flash in helicopters, so not a concern for me. My first thought when I got the smkIII was it highlighted the differences between 35mm and MF. That could be down to the hit or miss AF I think might be sorted now, in a few weeks from now I might be agreeing with you if it is sorted. I want to start shooting video if I can get a gyro system to my spec, the 5D is looking an option, I'm waiting for the hyperdust to settle to see where it fits in, that's another reason why I'm not rushing to MF or Nikon.
But if I was to design a camera for my needs the S2 would be pretty close, that's why it is on my radar, you know the lenses are going to be top notch.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2009, 12:55:21 PM »
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Just some more details after I got a demo of the S2 . More to come but heading home right now from Vegas and yes I wound up supporting the local Vegas economy. Bummer

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5967
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pss
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2009, 07:51:36 PM »
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to me the S2 looks like an amazing camera...a huge finder, large sensor, the whole thing built from the start for digital capture, superfast image processing....and with leica lenses...with shutters....what is not to like?

i read today that leica will not announce a price until the thing actually hits the market....which is smart because who knows.....i get bombarded with emails selling me MF backs....cheaper then the D3x...

regardless of the price of the body, the lenses will be the killer...in performance and in price....in the end, it won't matter how much the body is if the lenses come in close to 5 figures....

i really like the way leica approached this whole thing...built from the ground up with one goal in mind....image quality and ease of use...DNG!....

i think it will be great.....BUT i am shooting with a 5DII...at a fraction of the price it handles everything i throw at it beautifully....just amazing....high iso.....just a joy to shoot with.....slow AF compared to the dsIII, but i am afraid it might still beat the S2 in that department?

if for some reason my moneytree starts sprouting, i will definitely get one....but i don't see that happening anytime soon....the difference in price...in the end this will be the same as with all DMF...5% better files (and most of the time not visible at all) at 10x the price....
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2009, 08:25:54 PM »
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Quote from: pss
to me the S2 looks like an amazing camera...a huge finder, large sensor, the whole thing built from the start for digital capture, superfast image processing....and with leica lenses...with shutters....what is not to like?

The main downside I see is that the lenses are not so fast: 24/2.8, 30/3.5 TS, 30-90/3.5, 35/2.5, 70/2.5, 100/3.5, 120/2.5, 180/3.5, 350/3.5

Is 100mm f3.5 fast enough for portraits?

Why are they not all leaf shutter, or at least offering leaf shutter as an option?

You could also argue that 45x30mm is not that large a sensor, and the 3:2 ratio is not to everyone's taste, but these are fairly minor points. Btw, I think it looks great!
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2009, 08:52:53 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
- 14 bits (can be debated)
...
  - The hardcore MFDB shooters will want 16 bits and micro lenses less sensors (whether that is relevant or not is a different question)
The hardcore MFDB shooters would not miss anything; the 16bit depth is eye-wash only. For example Phase One owners can be happy that their software does not use more than 14bits, for the excess is garbage (but they don't know this, so they are happy believing that they are working with 16bit files).
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Gabor
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2009, 09:43:15 PM »
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Quote from: Panopeeper
The hardcore MFDB shooters would not miss anything; the 16bit depth is eye-wash only. For example Phase One owners can be happy that their software does not use more than 14bits, for the excess is garbage (but they don't know this, so they are happy believing that they are working with 16bit files).

That is indeed what reason dictates, supported by DxO Mark results, but this opinion can indeed not be spelled out around here, which is why I added a (can be debated) in parenthesis.

Cheers,
Bernard
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Panopeeper
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 09:58:03 PM »
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Quote from: BernardLanguillier
That is indeed what reason dictates, supported by DxO Mark results, but this opinion can indeed not be spelled out around here, which is why I added a (can be debated) in parenthesis.
Regarding Phase One I can actually prove that.
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Gabor
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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2009, 10:12:31 PM »
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The problem I run into with landscape work is having to put away the H3DII-39's when the weather turns bad and pick up the 1Ds. That is giving up a lot of file detail. In Ireland recently I spent more time with the Canon because the Hasselblad was at risk.

The Leica S2 gives me the weatherproofing of the 1Ds (hopefully) with the optics and file size of the Hasselblad. Exactly what I have been praying for for years! It was great to be able to shoot for 2 days in the pouring rain in Antarctica and never have to worry about my cameras- sadly I really missed having some of those images in 39mp glory.

To me the Leica optics, weatherproofing in a form factor that is easy to handle and use it a tremendous advantage. If it tests as well as my early demo with it and the reports on the optics hold up this will easily replace my Canon gear for the work that I do in tough climates.

PaulT
http://www.paultornaquindici.com
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 10:13:04 PM by PaulT » Logged
BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2009, 12:35:39 AM »
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Quote from: Panopeeper
Regarding Phase One I can actually prove that.

I don't doubt that, but all the data in the world will just not change some people's opinion.

Cheers,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2009, 12:46:42 AM »
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Quote from: PaulT
The Leica S2 gives me the weatherproofing of the 1Ds (hopefully) with the optics and file size of the Hasselblad. Exactly what I have been praying for for years! It was great to be able to shoot for 2 days in the pouring rain in Antarctica and never have to worry about my cameras- sadly I really missed having some of those images in 39mp glory.

In case on want to save 20.000 Euros... you could also buy a pano head for your 1ds.



Cheers,
Bernard
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mcfoto
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2009, 01:51:43 AM »
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Hi
The S2 shoots @ 1.5 f/s which is TOO slow!!! The P65+ shoots @ 1.0 f/s as does Leaf backs. Some of the Leaf backs shoot faster than 1 f/s.
Denis
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carstenw
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2009, 03:08:35 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
The main downside I see is that the lenses are not so fast: 24/2.8, 30/3.5 TS, 30-90/3.5, 35/2.5, 70/2.5, 100/3.5, 120/2.5, 180/3.5, 350/3.5

Is 100mm f3.5 fast enough for portraits?

Why are they not all leaf shutter, or at least offering leaf shutter as an option?

The 100 has variously been reported as f3.5 and f2.5. I hope that they actually make it an f2, but we'll see about that. Most of these lenses are the fastest in their classes. I am not sure what you want that is faster, apart from the 100? The only faster lenses are the 110/2 from F&H and the 100/2.2 from Hasselblad, as well as two discontinued lenses: the 80/2 from Contax and the 80/1.7 from Mamiya. Those are all in the 80-110 range, and the rest of Leica's lenses are faster than existing glass, I think...

Leaf shutters will be quite expensive, I suppose, and a 35/70/120/180 CS set should add enough flexibility for most uses. It is also not clear that the optical compromises required to place the shutter in the middle are, erm, savory for all focal lengths. Anyway, if there is sufficient demand, I suppose Leica will add more focal lengths and CS-spec lenses.

I think most portraitists don't shoot wide open anyway with MF, but at f5.6-f8?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 03:09:18 AM by carstenw » Logged

eronald
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2009, 06:04:22 AM »
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Anyone wanting to use this beast off a tripod or without flash is crazy.

I have a P45+ Mamiya combo; it is basically unusable even for outdoor portraits in the Paris winter light. Lack of depth of field and camera shake kill you, off a tripod. The D3x set at 1600 with a fast prime is usable and sharp anywhere. If you can set up a tripod, the P45+ cannot be beat, even a 10MP crop can be enlarged to 44".

The S2's form factor is nice. The camera design is nice. But the slow sensor is obsolete. Leica need to find themselves a better sensor, or that thing will stay on the shelf however good the lenses, which are supposed to be superb.

And, for the record, I have the same issues with my M8, it simply runs out of light all too frequently; camera shake is its worse enemy and if you don't care about shake then you aren't printing big or cropping, and then you don't need those sharp lenses. The M8's sweet spot is 13x18".

Edmund
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2009, 06:26:04 AM »
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Quote from: carstenw
The 100 has variously been reported as f3.5 and f2.5. I hope that they actually make it an f2, but we'll see about that. Most of these lenses are the fastest in their classes. I am not sure what you want that is faster, apart from the 100? The only faster lenses are the 110/2 from F&H and the 100/2.2 from Hasselblad, as well as two discontinued lenses: the 80/2 from Contax and the 80/1.7 from Mamiya. Those are all in the 80-110 range, and the rest of Leica's lenses are faster than existing glass, I think...

Fastest in their class? I don't see it. Compare with these Rollei lenses (which include leaf shutters!): 40 f3.5, 50 f2.8, 80 f2, 110 f2, 180 f2.8

With a smaller sensor, you will need larger apertures to get the same narrow DOF as you would with a larger sensor, so the Leica would need to offer slightly faster lenses to keep up with a 645 sensor.

Quote from: carstenw
I think most portraitists don't shoot wide open anyway with MF, but at f5.6-f8?

Using my 150 @f4 I often wish for at least an extra stop of blur but I agree that's a matter of personal taste.
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« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2009, 07:25:55 AM »
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How The S2 will be used tethered? I understand that it won't have a live view mode. Ok, it's not very much needed for portraits and outdoors.
 
What about the regular  tethering ? Will it be the C1? Something Leica's home-brewed ?
What kind of ports does  the S2 have, USB-2?? Firewire???

Thanks,
Yevgeny
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2009, 08:26:01 AM »
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Tethered is USB or Firewire 400 (I forgot to catch that part in the demo) with a special military grade input that you plug in and actually hold the cord and the camera can dangle down. Pretty cool but there is still debate on what tethered software they will use
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