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Author Topic: Heroes  (Read 11512 times)
dalethorn
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« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2009, 05:12:18 AM »
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Quote from: Robert Roaldi
I remember reading an article years ago (sorry, no idea where) in which the author had taken the figure sizes of all the Playboy centerfolds (as reported in the magazine) and plotted the trend. Apparently, as judged by Playboy anyway, our culture is losing its taste for hourglass figures and instead is developing a taste for more boyish figures. Would this have happened without photography, I don't know. But it is concurrent with the increased sexualization of younger and younger females, and younger females tend to have more boyish figures. I suspect that this may be an active area of research by sociologists somewhere, or should be.

Or, despite Playboy's official propaganda, it could be as simple as the Hefner daughter's taste in women.
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Ray
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« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2009, 08:06:47 AM »
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The theory which sounds convincing to me, is that anorexic women look more like teenage boys and therefore appeal more to the homosexual tendencies of the fashion designers. I don't want to appear homophobic, and I'm not. I'm just trying to be objective. Men who design womens' clothes tend to be homosexual, as I understand. Correct me if this is a wrong impression.

Anorexic women are perhaps a victim of homosexual fashion designers. I'm a red-blooded heterosexual. I like my women fairly full-bodied, but not overweight.
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RSL
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« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2009, 10:09:29 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
The theory which sounds convincing to me, is that anorexic women look more like teenage boys and therefore appeal more to the homosexual tendencies of the fashion designers. I don't want to appear homophobic, and I'm not. I'm just trying to be objective. Men who design womens' clothes tend to be homosexual, as I understand. Correct me if this is a wrong impression.

Anorexic women are perhaps a victim of homosexual fashion designers. I'm a red-blooded heterosexual. I like my women fairly full-bodied, but not overweight.

In other words, "just right."
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Misirlou
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« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2009, 11:03:04 AM »
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Whenever people talk about "heroes," I am reminded of a television show I saw about 20 years ago. Bill Moyers had a series on PBS called "A World of Ideas." Now, Bill Moyers is pretty far out on one end of the political spectrum, but that isn't the important part of this story, so don't start thinking in political terms here.

Anyway, for the episode in question, Moyers interviewed the author Barbara Tuchman. She was a well-known historian in the U.S., noted particularly for her book "The Guns of August" about the events that led to the outbreak of World War I. By this point, she was quite elderly, and she died shortly after the show aired. She was defintiely a woman with a sort of early 20th century sensibility and demeanor.

Apparently, prior to the Moyers show, some organization had invited Tuchman to participate in a "Celebration of the American Hero" event somewhere. She talked about preparing her thoughts about sacrifice and service and such. When she arrived, she found that the "heroes" being celebrated were a small girl famous for having been rescued after falling down a well, the notorious "Mayflower Madam" Sidney Biddle Barrows, Superman, and some other similar characters. I'll never forget the disgust and contempt Barbara Tuchman used to describe her horrifying ordeal. I get a chuckle every time I think about that, even now. What I would give to have seen her as she began to realize what kind of "hero" event she'd been drawn into...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 11:08:31 AM by Misirlou » Logged
dalethorn
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« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
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Quote from: Misirlou
Whenever people talk about "heroes," I am reminded of a television show I saw about 20 years ago. Bill Moyers had a series on PBS called "A World of Ideas." Now, Bill Moyers is pretty far out on one end of the political spectrum, but that isn't the important part of this story, so don't start thinking in political terms here.
Anyway, for the episode in question, Moyers interviewed the author Barbara Tuchman. She was a well-known historian in the U.S., noted particularly for her book "The Guns of August" about the events that led to the outbreak of World War I. By this point, she was quite elderly, and she died shortly after the show aired. She was defintiely a woman with a sort of early 20th century sensibility and demeanor.
Apparently, prior to the Moyers show, some organization had invited Tuchman to participate in a "Celebration of the American Hero" event somewhere. She talked about preparing her thoughts about sacrifice and service and such. When she arrived, she found that the "heroes" being celebrated were a small girl famous for having been rescued after falling down a well, the notorious "Mayflower Madam" Sidney Biddle Barrows, Superman, and some other similar characters. I'll never forget the disgust and contempt Barbara Tuchman used to describe her horrifying ordeal. I get a chuckle every time I think about that, even now. What I would give to have seen her as she began to realize what kind of "hero" event she'd been drawn into...

Americans tend to think of heroes as men primarily, as they do rock bands, and 911 reinforced that in a big way, to the delight of many. So many of those many would indeed be horrified to encounter non-traditional hero models.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2009, 03:20:00 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
The theory which sounds convincing to me, is that anorexic women look more like teenage boys and therefore appeal more to the homosexual tendencies of the fashion designers. I don't want to appear homophobic, and I'm not. I'm just trying to be objective. Men who design womens' clothes tend to be homosexual, as I understand. Correct me if this is a wrong impression.
Anorexic women are perhaps a victim of homosexual fashion designers. I'm a red-blooded heterosexual. I like my women fairly full-bodied, but not overweight.

Many people have speculated on this, but I don't recall a single article or discussion about it. This is the first time I've seen this in black and white.
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jjj
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« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2009, 07:48:17 AM »
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Quote from: Justan
Disclosing drug use for a supermodel is akin to kryptonite for Superman: it weakens them and thereby diminishes their appeal. Ironically this is often seen as the “tragic end” of their career, so in this way they are akin to traditional heroes.
Kate Moss was caught by the tabloid press taking drugs in a toilet and was initially dropped by some campaigns, however by the next year her earning were up as she was even better known and used even more.
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
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« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2009, 08:01:25 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
Many people have speculated on this, but I don't recall a single article or discussion about it. This is the first time I've seen this in black and white.
You're unlikely to see people talk about it as they will be scared of being seen as homophobic, despite the fact it's just an observation of why feminine [curvy] women are rarely seen on the catwalk, not as a critism of other's sexual preferences. I 've said exactly the same on previous occasions and no doubt others have too.
As an aside - Dove's advertising campaign featuring real women, with real curves and no photoshoppery increased Dove's sales by 900%!
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Justan
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« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2009, 10:47:58 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
I'm 71 inches tall and weigh 143 lbs.  Not unnaturally skinny, just always been that way, running several miles per day, a healthy weight.  The fact is, if everyone in the USA would eat right and walk a lot or run some, most of them would become fairly slender, so for their health's sake, their weight anxiety is for good cause.

There is a wide range of  “normal” weight. I think studies have shown that people’s physiology plays a huge role in determining their weight range. Add to that the effects of environment (and marketing upon culture over the last 70 years) and the range has seen huge upward growth.

Your physiology clearly favors being skinny. Clearly your desire to run (exercise vigorously) plays a role.

I too exercise regularly. I realized long ago that our bodies are half legs. The design says a lot about what we are built to do!
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Justan
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« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2009, 10:49:53 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
I do remember the USA culture clearly, from the mid-1950's on.  The big breakthrough in thin was the advent of Twiggy, from Great Britain.  Like the Beatles and the so-called British Invasion, Twiggy was the defining moment for us in model-thin.

I remember it too...and feel so old!  
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Justan
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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2009, 11:13:17 AM »
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Quote from: Robert Roaldi
I remember reading an article years ago (sorry, no idea where) in which the author had taken the figure sizes of all the Playboy centerfolds (as reported in the magazine) and plotted the trend. Apparently, as judged by Playboy anyway, our culture is losing its taste for hourglass figures and instead is developing a taste for more boyish figures. Would this have happened without photography, I don't know. But it is concurrent with the increased sexualization of younger and younger females, and younger females tend to have more boyish figures. I suspect that this may be an active area of research by sociologists somewhere, or should be.

I heard a story long ago that one month in its first year or two Playboy did a center feature on a woman who had small breasts. The magazine was said to have received lots of letters complaining. Due to that, so the story goes, they never repeated that “mistake” again.

I don’t want to step over any lines of inappropriate commentary. All hear appear to be reasonable adults. With that in mind, in our recent history, as recently as less than 100 years ago, very young women, girls, really, were very widely having babies. This wasn’t just in the USA but the world over. It still happens a lot throughout the world. This history shows a clear basis for attraction towards the very young. Now our culture rightfully condemns this behavior.

Still, most supermodels fit the form factor of those who appear both very skinny and very young. In fact, when you consider that some parents encourage their children into modeling as early as age 5 or so………………………………………………………

Anyway the growth of photography has served demands of an ever growing audience that shows ever increasing diversity. The supermodels as a hero of sorts is a product of those demands.
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Justan
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« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2009, 11:17:54 AM »
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Quote from: Misirlou
Whenever people talk about "heroes," I am reminded of a television show I saw about 20 years ago. Bill Moyers had a series on PBS called "A World of Ideas." Now, Bill Moyers is pretty far out on one end of the political spectrum, but that isn't the important part of this story, so don't start thinking in political terms here.

Anyway, for the episode in question, Moyers interviewed the author Barbara Tuchman. She was a well-known historian in the U.S., noted particularly for her book "The Guns of August" about the events that led to the outbreak of World War I. By this point, she was quite elderly, and she died shortly after the show aired. She was defintiely a woman with a sort of early 20th century sensibility and demeanor.

Apparently, prior to the Moyers show, some organization had invited Tuchman to participate in a "Celebration of the American Hero" event somewhere. She talked about preparing her thoughts about sacrifice and service and such. When she arrived, she found that the "heroes" being celebrated were a small girl famous for having been rescued after falling down a well, the notorious "Mayflower Madam" Sidney Biddle Barrows, Superman, and some other similar characters. I'll never forget the disgust and contempt Barbara Tuchman used to describe her horrifying ordeal. I get a chuckle every time I think about that, even now. What I would give to have seen her as she began to realize what kind of "hero" event she'd been drawn into...

I'd never heard of Sidney Biddle Barrows before.

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Justan
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« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2009, 11:20:31 AM »
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Quote from: jjj
Kate Moss was caught by the tabloid press taking drugs in a toilet and was initially dropped by some campaigns, however by the next year her earning were up as she was even better known and used even more.


Yep, sometimes the kryptonite actually helps. Ask Martha Stewart.

It’s the old "that which doesn’t kill me makes me stronger" phenomena
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Misirlou
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« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2009, 02:46:44 PM »
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Quote from: Justan
I'd never heard of Sidney Biddle Barrows before.

Really? People were talking about her all over the place in '87. She did the talk show circuit during that time, and there was at least one TV movie made about her "career." Perhaps that's why she was considered a "hero" for that particular celebration. 15 minutes and all that...
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