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Author Topic: Color Munku problems  (Read 8741 times)
David Mantripp
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 02:53:00 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
It is sounding like you should get X-Rite to swap this unit out for a new one. Its worth a try before you throw the baby out with the bath water.


Easier said than done, in this part of the world (Switzerland)...   Even if it is "Swiss Engineered" I actually had to order it from the UK.  I suppose the supplier would assist me (Colour Confidence) but if it has to go back to them, then I have hassles with customs and import / export paperwork.  Oh to be in the EU.

by the way, Tyler, I had no problem with Harman Gloss FB AI. Go figure.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 02:54:29 PM by drm » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 03:22:20 PM »
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Quote from: drm
Easier said than done, in this part of the world (Switzerland)...   Even if it is "Swiss Engineered" I actually had to order it from the UK.

Well I can say that unless things have changed in the last year, since the merger, all the GMB products were build in Regensdorf! I don't know about the Munki however, might be made in the US under X-Rite.

Don't you have a warranty? Contact the reseller and tell then you need an RMA and want to get a new unit. Any decent reseller, or X-Rite should stand behind the product, even if that means swapping your unit with a new one, its what they should do to make you a happy customer.

Considering that a good profile was built in the past and now its hosed, it sure sounds like a hardware issue. Even if not, until you try a newer unit, there's no sure way to know if its the hardware or the software, or some other issue until the hardware is eliminated from the equation.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2009, 04:13:00 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Well I can say that unless things have changed in the last year, since the merger, all the GMB products were build in Regensdorf! I don't know about the Munki however, might be made in the US under X-Rite.

Don't you have a warranty? Contact the reseller and tell then you need an RMA and want to get a new unit. Any decent reseller, or X-Rite should stand behind the product, even if that means swapping your unit with a new one, its what they should do to make you a happy customer.

Considering that a good profile was built in the past and now its hosed, it sure sounds like a hardware issue. Even if not, until you try a newer unit, there's no sure way to know if its the hardware or the software, or some other issue until the hardware is eliminated from the equation.


I'm not criticising X-Rite or the seller. The issue is it is very difficult to get hold of "pro" photography gear in Switzerland, even stuff that is built here. I was unable to find a reseller for the ColorMunki here, so I had to order it from the UK. If I have to send it back, I have to export it and deal with customs duties. And I'll be liable for import duties in the UK. And then I'll have to pay for the reimport. And it will take _weeks_.  I may be able to recover some of the costs by filling in forms and writing letters to people in uniforms, but I've got better things to spend my time on....

I have just reinstalled the software, reprofiled the Innova paper, and the profile sucks.

So yeah, it seems that the device is screwed up. Either it goes in the trash, or I try to get it examined....  Or, actually, I face up to the fact that factory profiles are pretty good these days, at least those from "pro" suppliers, and all of this is actually an excercise in futility.
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« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »
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I know this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

<straw_clutching>

Is there any way that there could be some interference between Color Munki Photo and ColorEyes Pro, at system level, which is having an effect on the ColorMunki printer profiling ?

As far as I'm aware, there is no coupling between display profiling and printer profiling as such, but maybe something the ColorEyes does might have an impact on CMP's profile generation ...

</straw_clutching>
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« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2009, 10:23:30 PM »
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Quote from: drm
I know this is a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
Is there any way that there could be some interference between Color Munki Photo and ColorEyes Pro, at system level, which is having an effect on the ColorMunki printer profiling ?

Shouldn't be the case. However, I do recall that with DDC capable displays like the NEC that support ColorMunki, you have to disable the ColorMunki software in some way to get it to work in the other environment. I suppose its possible the other direction but can't imagine how it would affect print profiling. Only way to know for sure, and its a stretch, is to remove ColorEyes and try again. But I really doubt that's it. Just doesn't make sense that it would affect how the ColorMunki reads color patches to build a profile.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2009, 04:12:50 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
Shouldn't be the case. However, I do recall that with DDC capable displays like the NEC that support ColorMunki, you have to disable the ColorMunki software in some way to get it to work in the other environment. I suppose its possible the other direction but can't imagine how it would affect print profiling. Only way to know for sure, and its a stretch, is to remove ColorEyes and try again. But I really doubt that's it. Just doesn't make sense that it would affect how the ColorMunki reads color patches to build a profile.

Ok, thanks. I've just had one last try, profiling some Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper. Same result, extremely dark and clipped. So I'm going to return it, somehow.

What I don't understand is why I'm only seeing this on prints. Soft proofs look fine.  It really is a black art.  Next time I'm over at Amazon I'm going to add your book to my cart, Andrew. Partly to say thanks for yiur help, but mainly because I think I need it!
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« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2009, 04:21:22 PM »
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Quote from: drm
What I don't understand is why I'm only seeing this on prints. Soft proofs look fine.

I've seen cases where the soft proof shows some banding but not on output so this is very odd.

Do you know anyone nearby with a ColorMunki who could measure the targets to confirm that the issue is with your unit?

Have you tried using the iteration process whereby you can create additional targets (more patches) after building the first profile? Its possible the 100 patches are insufficient to produce a good profile. I've yet to see this, but I can't say I've tried more than a few papers with the Munki. Try to sample some of the problematic colors and use them such the software will build a new target to add to the existing profile.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2009, 05:40:51 PM »
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Quote from: digitaldog
I've seen cases where the soft proof shows some banding but not on output so this is very odd.

Do you know anyone nearby with a ColorMunki who could measure the targets to confirm that the issue is with your unit?

Have you tried using the iteration process whereby you can create additional targets (more patches) after building the first profile? Its possible the 100 patches are insufficient to produce a good profile. I've yet to see this, but I can't say I've tried more than a few papers with the Munki. Try to sample some of the problematic colors and use them such the software will build a new target to add to the existing profile.

Unfortunately I don't know anybody else anywhere near me with one.  Honestly I don't think that we're in iteration territory here. Also, the fact that I got a good profile from the Innova F-Type some months ago, but now I can't repeat it, tends to indicate something is wrong now that was ok before...

Looking at the gamut plot clearly shows the issue, so why it is not showing up in soft proofing is just weird.

If I get time, I'll try print off a couple of examples using the Quato test target, scan them, and post them.  Obviously a lot will get lost in translation, but the scale of the shift should be evident.

Good thing I'm not doing this for a living :-)

I've raised a ticket with Colour Confidence, the reseller, so maybe they'll come up with something.
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2009, 05:12:37 PM »
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Well, guess what? I'm an idiot.  ColourConfidence support pointed me at this support note from XRite:

http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx...;SupportID=4676

And I had been overlooking the Color Matching setting. It was defaulting, and it seems, reverting, to ColorSync.  Since this isn't even exposed in the Aperture print dialog, which is where I do all but my final printing from, I just completely forgot about it.

Actually, it seems totally bizarre to me that when set to "ColorSync", the Printer Settings dialog is active. But what do I know.

Thanks for everybody's input, especially Andrew - whilst feeling very embarrassed I though it was only right to 'fess up :-)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 05:13:03 PM by drm » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2009, 05:24:19 PM »
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Quote from: drm
And I had been overlooking the Color Matching setting. It was defaulting, and it seems, reverting, to ColorSync.  Since this isn't even exposed in the Aperture print dialog, which is where I do all but my final printing from, I just completely forgot about it.

Yup, first time you mentioned printing out of Aperture. Should not have assumed you were using Photoshop.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2009, 07:59:33 PM »
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Quote from: drm
I've been using a Color Munki for a while for print profiles. It has been working fine, creating profiles which generally improve on the canned profiles. However, I've just profiled two papers - Epson Traditional Photo Paper, and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk, and in both cases, the resulting prints are way too dark with blocked up shadows, whereas the canned profiles are actually pretty good. The color charts look ok, and the device itself seems to be working fine. So I'm a bit baffled. Does anybody have any clue as to what could go wrong ?

(Mac OS X 10.5.6, PPC, Color Munki Photo 1.0.5)

Hi

when you print a step-wedge, when do you first see a separation between the steps? I have been profiling these papers with iOne Pro Proof kit, using iMatch software, and I am not seeing any separation before 12-18 (on a 0-255 scale). I am having to apply a fine tune to my images before they go out to suit the printer/paper/ink combo

can you show us some before and after?

Henrik
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