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Author Topic: Z3x00 and APS custom targets  (Read 6923 times)
adiallo
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« on: March 16, 2009, 08:17:43 AM »
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Of possible interest to those running APS, one undocumented feature is that you can use any profiling target of your choice. You're not limited to the 3 that ship with APS. All you need is the reference file of your preferred target. You can add as many as you like. And you don't have to do the rename-and-overwrite workaround like in i1 Match. I've only tried this on a Mac with APS 1.4 and RGB targets. I wrote up the details in a blog post.
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neil snape
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 01:55:48 AM »
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I asked just this some time ago here. Charly Cramer had posted how to read some other charts with the built in profiler.

This is what I wanted to do. Have to try it. On your advice the 1728 chart will probably be all there is to get the most out of the APS.

Thanks for the info.
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Colorwave
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 02:16:28 AM »
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Many thanks for sharing this, Amadou.
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georgek
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 04:05:32 AM »
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Quote from: Colorwave
Many thanks for sharing this, Amadou.

After reading Amadou's blog I tried it with Bill Atckinson's 1728 target but right before finishing scanning the target, APS returned an alert "The printer has returned false file measurement data. Please try again". Tried reading the patches later but same problem. Z3100ps GP with APS 1.4 using Windows XP.
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 04:12:16 AM »
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Hello Amadou,
I, (Like Ron H.), would like to say thank you for sharing.

I really appreciate that.

All the best, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: Colorwave
Many thanks for sharing this, Amadou.
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rdonson
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 08:47:57 AM »
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Amadou,

Thanks so much for sharing this.  I can't wait to try it out.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
neil snape
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 09:25:56 AM »
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Quote from: georgek
After reading Amadou's blog I tried it with Bill Atckinson's 1728 target but right before finishing scanning the target, APS returned an alert "The printer has returned false file measurement data. Please try again". Tried reading the patches later but same problem. Z3100ps GP with APS 1.4 using Windows XP.



I am still interested in knowing if this has been working on only photo models or if it is a little bug for some set ups?
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kuau
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 08:16:11 PM »
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Quote from: neil snape
I am still interested in knowing if this has been working on only photo models or if it is a little bug for some set ups?

Hi I read your blog about using custom patch layout in APS.
I am use to using monacos 1728 patch layout, is this the same as bill Atkinson 1728 patch layout?
Do you feel you get better results using 1728 patches as opposed to the TC9.18 target?
Thanks
Steven
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 08:31:57 PM »
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Hi Neil,
I can report problems with my Z3100ps 44in PHOTO. It's not conclusive that it's the problem though because I had another issue with my driver just prior, but before I tried using HP APS 1.4. But it seem like after I installed the txt targets, HP APS hasn't been working. First I got the error:
"Could not retrieve media info from the printer, please reload the media and start the process again." After getting this a lot, I called HP, but didn't get far. Later I reinstalled HP APS 1.4 (Mac) and then instead of getting the above error after removing the target and reinstalling, I'm still not able to us HP APS. This time it's a different error: "The printer is not ready, please check the connection."  I can see the printer with HP Printer Monitor and HP Printer Utility. I can talk to it with the embedded web server. I can print a job to it, but I can no longer get HP APS to work. HP is trying to help me figure out what went wrong. They've put a specialist on it and we are working at it. So far no luck. I need to reinstall things again including drivers and the HP APS Software. Such joy! ;-)

FYI, Here are the drivers I have installed.
HP PPS driver v 4.3.5.153
HP PCL3 Raster Driver v3.1

HP wants only the raster driver installed, not the PS Driver, so I have to remove that.

So long for now, TOM

Quote from: neil snape
I am still interested in knowing if this has been working on only photo models or if it is a little bug for some set ups?
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Colorwave
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 10:05:25 PM »
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Tom
I haven't tried the custom targets with APS yet, but have had a similar problem with it not being able to see my printer when all other networking was working fine.  HP had no suggestions, but I managed to guess at a solution that worked.  Try telling it that you want to profile a previously printed target from another printer.  When I did that, APS could suddenly see my printer and I cancelled that target scan and everything was fixed.  Random sounding, but effective for me.  See if it works for you.
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 10:46:17 PM »
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Hi Ron H.,
OK! I'll try that first and see if I can get it to work again. What is really weird is that I have been using HP APS since version 1 and have never had any problems with it other than not liking the interface much, and the lack of a good manual for it (never been a fan of on line help).

Anyway, about 2 months or so ago, I started having some really weird issues with the printer, and when I called HP for assistance, after going around and around, I was told to download and install the latest Z3200ps Drivers (no, that is not a misprint, Z3200ps is correct). The tech said that it would install the latest and greatest drivers for the Z3100ps in addition to installing drivers for the printer I thought I bought almost 2 years ago (namely the Z3200ps). So after installing that, and setting everything up, I was back on track and everything appeared to be OK. I then went to use HP APS v1.4 and ran into this really weird error, and it's a no go situation. All stop with HP APS. And it's been weeks, and I feel like I've been at the scene of the murder and I am the only witness. I've had to tell the story and provide all the tech specs more than once now. HP is on the case.

Thanks for the tip, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: Colorwave
Tom
I haven't tried the custom targets with APS yet, but have had a similar problem with it not being able to see my printer when all other networking was working fine.  HP had no suggestions, but I managed to guess at a solution that worked.  Try telling it that you want to profile a previously printed target from another printer.  When I did that, APS could suddenly see my printer and I cancelled that target scan and everything was fixed.  Random sounding, but effective for me.  See if it works for you.
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Colorwave
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 01:32:37 AM »
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Tom-
Unfortunately, the people who deal with APS at HP are the SGT (Specialty Graphics Team).  It took them almost two weeks to finally call me, after being badgered by the regular tech support folks.  They seem to be "more important" than all the rest.  When I finally spoke with one of them, he had no clue how to address the connection problem I had been having, and said that APS should be able to find the printer on it's own.  The other techs called the SGT people color "gurus".  I somehow missed the guru part with the person I spoke with, about this and other APS questions.  He had never heard of using other patch counts, for instance.  I had figured out my problem by the time I was finally able to speak with him.  He said that nobody had ever had a problem getting APS to find a printer when the networking was correctly setup.  Quite a few of us seem to have the same "one of a kind" issues, as HP doesn't do a very good job logging specific problems and solutions to learn from the misfortunes of others.  As I've said before:  Thank goodness they crank out beautiful prints.
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kers
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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2009, 06:59:30 AM »
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Quote from: adiallo
Of possible interest to those running APS, one undocumented feature is that you can use any profiling target of your choice. You're not limited to the 3 that ship with APS. All you need is the reference file of your preferred target. You can add as many as you like. And you don't have to do the rename-and-overwrite workaround like in i1 Match. I've only tried this on a Mac with APS 1.4 and RGB targets. I wrote up the details in a blog post.


amadou Diallo,

Thank you for this valuable information that upgraded my APS. I just tried the method and it works like a charm.
Having the Z3100 now for over two years I become to appreciate it more and more.
Only one faulty printhead and one cleaning exercise + a drop of oil on the rod is everything you need to keep it working perfectly.
and thanks to you it gets even better. -and naturally I also like to thank Bill Atkinson for publishing his targets and helpfull test images
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 07:12:27 AM by kers » Logged

Pieter Kers
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 11:00:04 PM »
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Quote from: kers
amadou Diallo,

Thank you for this valuable information that upgraded my APS. I just tried the method and it works like a charm.
Having the Z3100 now for over two years I become to appreciate it more and more.
Only one faulty printhead and one cleaning exercise + a drop of oil on the rod is everything you need to keep it working perfectly.
and thanks to you it gets even better. -and naturally I also like to thank Bill Atkinson for publishing his targets and helpfull test images

Just wanted to add that I did get my Z3200 non ps veriosn and the APS software and I was able to use the 1728 patch target from Bill and it worked perfect.
The only error message I got was "The ICC Profile could not be saved to the printer because the printer is rejecting the profile"

Why do I need to save profiles to the printer???
Thanks
Steven
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Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
neil snape
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 01:28:08 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
Just wanted to add that I did get my Z3200 non ps veriosn and the APS software and I was able to use the 1728 patch target from Bill and it worked perfect.
The only error message I got was "The ICC Profile could not be saved to the printer because the printer is rejecting the profile"

Why do I need to save profiles to the printer???
Thanks
Steven


At this point HP have not yet fixed the bug reported a long time ago. If anyone has had luck with saving out profiles Mac or PC speak up.

I did once but I couldn't get it to do it again, so something like naming or tags must be causing a bug.
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kers
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 04:28:31 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
Just wanted to add that I did get my Z3200 non ps veriosn and the APS software and I was able to use the 1728 patch target from Bill and it worked perfect.
The only error message I got was "The ICC Profile could not be saved to the printer because the printer is rejecting the profile"
Why do I need to save profiles to the printer???Thanks Steven


I never want to save the profiles to the printer so i do not know that it not works... and so i am not going to try it...

But i just did something else


I made my own test target for black and white prints that seems to work a little better for me than the original profiles.
I just combined the target with 918 patches that comes with APS ( z3100)  with 256 grey scale patches 0-255 to 1174 patches.
When using the target i found a little better high and low value separation.

If any one is interested i can put it online.

The conversion to this profile is not completely colourless, but that is with all the APS made profiles the same. Only the official HP profiles are completely ( made) neutral. ( i used HP HG contractproof paper for this test)
I also tried a target combining the easy ( 45 patch) target in the APS with th 256 greyscale but that did not work out- more colouring and banding.

I f any one has some idea about making good  and less good targets or can help me improve mine- please speak up...

regards

Pieter Kers

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Pieter Kers
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kuau
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 09:02:22 AM »
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Quote from: kers
I never want to save the profiles to the printer so i do not know that it not works... and so i am not going to try it...

But i just did something else


I made my own test target for black and white prints that seems to work a little better for me than the original profiles.
I just combined the target with 918 patches that comes with APS ( z3100)  with 256 grey scale patches 0-255 to 1174 patches.
When using the target i found a little better high and low value separation.

If any one is interested i can put it online.

The conversion to this profile is not completely colourless, but that is with all the APS made profiles the same. Only the official HP profiles are completely ( made) neutral. ( i used HP HG contractproof paper for this test)
I also tried a target combining the easy ( 45 patch) target in the APS with th 256 greyscale but that did not work out- more colouring and banding.

I f any one has some idea about making good  and less good targets or can help me improve mine- please speak up...

regards

Pieter Kers

Pieter, I would be interested in your target. Please post it. Are you saying for B&W prints this works better?

Steven
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Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
kers
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2009, 06:09:28 PM »
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Quote from: kuau
Pieter, I would be interested in your target. Please post it. Are you saying for B&W prints this works better?
Steven


Hello Stephen,
here is the target

Remember- I have just made it and it is not thoroughly tested- I give no garantees. I only used it on one papertype yet ( HP HG Contract proofing paper)
But what i have seen is a bit better - it is a bit pixel peeping of course.
I have a z3100 printer and for 16 bits prints I do the following: I converse the 16 bit profile to the paperprofile and then use - no colormanagement - for printing it in photoshop.
I you want pure black and white choose print with BW inkts. There is allways a little colour there after conversion.
perceptual rendering intent works good but sometimes i put the blacks after conversion back to zero with a curve before printing ( if deepest blacks are an issue) .(You can also try relative colormetric conversion )
I don't know how colour prints wil behave - this target is aiming to get the black and white values more precise.
so try it and let me know if it is of any help.
Pieter Kers


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Pieter Kers
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