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Author Topic: White Balance  (Read 3671 times)
russellsnr
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« on: March 20, 2009, 01:39:00 PM »
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Hello, I am new to this forum but have been on a few others.
I am from the UK but live in Greece (Retired)
Also the wrong side of 50  
Anyway my questions.
Do you need to use Custom white balance in landscape photography if YES what do you gain if NO then as I try to use an external light meter what setting should I use, I no there are many to choose from but there must be one that tops the list.
I am at the moment in a must use filter phase,(dont like to spend to much time manipulating on the computer,rather be outside) only Cokin ND grades 120.121 etc, also like the idea of the the B&W #110 seems to give some very nice results in the required situation/s. (saving hard)
Oh I have the Canon 20D, 40D,(most of the time set to AV) 17-40mm & the 10-22mm.
Anyway thanks for reading and also Thank you for any advice in advance
Russell.
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 02:19:33 PM »
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Hi Russell, and welcome to the list.  If you're shooting in .jpg, then yes, the white balance is 'baked' into the image when you make it.  If you're shooting RAW, then you can set the white balance later on the computer, using Lightroom or whatever raw converter software you have.

Mike.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 02:23:32 PM »
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If you shoot RAW, white balance is adjusted when you convert the RAW file so custom white balance when you take the picture is usually not necessary. Only when I am reproducing art work where the color accuracy is really important will I shoot a grey card, but I still only use it during the RAW conversion. I usually get close setting the color temp on the camera to daylight then make a small adjustment during the conversion..
Marc
PS increased the red chanel and decreased the blue
[attachment=12337:Through_the_Rocks.jpg][attachment=12338:Through_the_Rocks2.jpg
]
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 02:36:21 PM by marcmccalmont » Logged

Marc McCalmont
russellsnr
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 02:45:14 PM »
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Hi, Thanks for the fast replies and the edit, amazing what you can do when you no how  
I shoot in RAW as that seems to be the expert advice when you look around.
But what should camera be set to AV? or am I better in M for my hand held meter.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 02:59:37 PM »
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Quote from: russellsnr
Hi, Thanks for the fast replies and the edit, amazing what you can do when you no how  
I shoot in RAW as that seems to be the expert advice when you look around.
But what should camera be set to AV? or am I better in M for my hand held meter.

White balance is a different setting all together not related to exposure settings. usually a button labeled WB and icons that look like the sun or AWB (auto white balance) etc. Also exposure meters (different from a white balance meter) are not necessary if you set your cameras playback to Histogram (RGB) and learn to set exposure with your histogram. The key will be your ability to adjust exposure with the histogram and adjust white balance with the relationship between the 3 channels in the histogram, histogram, histogram!!!!! What RAW converter are you using?
Marc
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 03:04:40 PM by marcmccalmont » Logged

Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 03:07:05 PM »
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Try this tutorial
http://www.naturescapes.net/092004/gd0904.htm
and this
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms2.htm
Marc
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 03:09:41 PM by marcmccalmont » Logged

Marc McCalmont
russellsnr
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 03:25:40 PM »
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Quote from: marcmccalmont
White balance is a different setting all together not related to exposure settings. usually a button labeled WB and icons that look like the sun or AWB (auto white balance) etc. Also exposure meters (different from a white balance meter) are not necessary if you set your cameras playback to Histogram (RGB) and learn to set exposure with your histogram. The key will be your ability to adjust exposure with the histogram and adjust white balance with the relationship between the 3 channels in the histogram, histogram, histogram!!!!! What RAW converter are you using?
Marc

Hi, I use ACR but as I stated in my main post I really donot like sitting working on images, I no it has to be done even in the old days of film but I like to try and get it IN THE BAG so to speak with the camera, photography to me is a past time and outdoors is better IMO.
regards
Russell.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 03:28:39 PM »
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Quote from: russellsnr
Hi, I use ACR but as I stated in my main post I really donot like sitting working on images, I no it has to be done even in the old days of film but I like to try and get it IN THE BAG so to speak with the camera, photography to me is a past time and outdoors is better IMO.
regards
Russell.
You should get a lot closer during the day by setting your WB (white balance) to "daylight" instead of AWB "auto white balance" and minor adjustments from there in ACR
Marc
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 03:29:08 PM by marcmccalmont » Logged

Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2009, 08:43:05 PM »
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http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_filmtodig.pdf

All I'll add on wb is that hitting the "auto" button in ACR is really useful to help you see how further you might want to tweak the image because I find visualising the colours on the sliders really hard without this aid!

This av/manual meter thing is confusing me....if the pic marc edited is one of yours, you certainly know a thing or two about pointing a camera with the right settings on it!  Were you aware of av pre-digital?  Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs - but you are aware that av (aperture priority) is where you select preferred aperture leaving the camera to set the shutter - and you to override that +/- 2-3 ev depending?  

Your cameras have at least 3 built in metering modes; centre weighted, evaluative and "spot" - please note the " marks as on canon's cheaper bodies, it is about a 5% spot rather than the 1% you may be used to.  The metering is plenty accurate in the right hands - but there is no reason not to use a manual meter, particularly an incident or spot meter, if you are more comfortable.  If you are though, do yourself a favour and dial the camera to m where you can set what you want rather than figure it out on evs!  FWIW though, I, and many others I'm sure, leave it in av much of the time with evaluative metering and the odd twiddle of the ev to keep things sweet.  It is worth being aware that the increased resolution of digital over film means lenses become defraction limited earlier than they did with film - think in terms of f11 being your tightest aperture - some will say f8.

There is a small degree of relationship between exposure and white balance.  you may have seen this article below.  You'll see that the histogram is made of 3 channels - and that to get "perfect" colour - you mustn't clip any of them.  In practice, as long as your exposure is good, the colour data will be there.

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_filmtodig.pdf
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russellsnr
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 01:06:44 AM »
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Quote from: situgrrl
http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_filmtodig.pdf

All I'll add on wb is that hitting the "auto" button in ACR is really useful to help you see how further you might want to tweak the image because I find visualising the colours on the sliders really hard without this aid!

This av/manual meter thing is confusing me....if the pic marc edited is one of yours, you certainly know a thing or two about pointing a camera with the right settings on it!  Were you aware of av pre-digital?  Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs - but you are aware that av (aperture priority) is where you select preferred aperture leaving the camera to set the shutter - and you to override that +/- 2-3 ev depending?  

Your cameras have at least 3 built in metering modes; centre weighted, evaluative and "spot" - please note the " marks as on canon's cheaper bodies, it is about a 5% spot rather than the 1% you may be used to.  The metering is plenty accurate in the right hands - but there is no reason not to use a manual meter, particularly an incident or spot meter, if you are more comfortable.  If you are though, do yourself a favour and dial the camera to m where you can set what you want rather than figure it out on evs!  FWIW though, I, and many others I'm sure, leave it in av much of the time with evaluative metering and the odd twiddle of the ev to keep things sweet.  It is worth being aware that the increased resolution of digital over film means lenses become defraction limited earlier than they did with film - think in terms of f11 being your tightest aperture - some will say f8.

There is a small degree of relationship between exposure and white balance.  you may have seen this article below.  You'll see that the histogram is made of 3 channels - and that to get "perfect" colour - you mustn't clip any of them.  In practice, as long as your exposure is good, the colour data will be there.

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_filmtodig.pdf


Hi, Thank you for the input, the photograph is mine but the edit was done by marcmccalmont
Also thanks for the website.
I no it may sound strange but I do like to try and use the hand held meter feel it gives you more satisfaction in the final result.
I dont no if any of you have seen http://www.patricksmithphotography.com/index.html but when I get this good i can stop asking questions  

Russell.

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