Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Epson 7900 - please help me buy  (Read 10553 times)
Primus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 10:29:48 PM »
ReplyReply

Error again. My apologies. This is in no way an attempt to keep the thread on top.  When I hit refresh on this page, it just posts my old message again for some reason.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:31:55 PM by Primus » Logged
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2804


« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2009, 03:33:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
OK, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that Epson used a GO on their less expensive consumer printers and the results on glossy were fantastic?  I thought that HP did the same thing even on the large format like the Z3200?  I thought the large format Epsons didn't use a GO and aren't as good on glossy media as the HP?  They certainly aren't as good as the Dye printers of yesteryear, are they?

You are right. Epson used the gloss enhancer as well. Piëzoheads are expensive and to keep cost down they are not manufactured beyond the 10 ink channels per printer, preferably less. So the R1800 and R800 got GE + Red + Blue and no extra grey inks, limiting the B&W quality. But excellent gloss. For the same reason there's never a PK + MK head available without some switching process. (edit) The exceptions are the 4000 and the 11880. The price of the piëzoheads compared to the thermo heads is reflected in the designs of the printers and how they keep their heads operating in practice. Epson has to compromise on nozzle quantity and so ink channels.

In time Epson inks improved in many ways including gloss but a gloss enhancer still improves on that. Laying down a gloss layer over the entire print or on all spots of the image can't be done by the colored inks so the match of paper coating and ink is more critical. Dye inks penetrate the gloss coatings better so when finished one gets the original paper gloss again, that's much more difficult with pigment inks. The paper coatings (gelatine, PVA, preferable for dye and micro ceramic for pigment) play a role there too.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 03:41:58 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2808



WWW
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 01:21:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
You are right. Epson used the gloss enhancer as well. Piëzoheads are expensive and to keep cost down they are not manufactured beyond the 10 ink channels per printer, preferably less. So the R1800 and R800 got GE + Red + Blue and no extra grey inks, limiting the B&W quality. But excellent gloss. For the same reason there's never a PK + MK head available without some switching process. The exception is the 4000 that stayed in the market for a short period but remains popular among its users.

The current exception being the 11880, which does have dedicated MK and PK channels.
Logged

Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2009, 02:29:43 PM »
ReplyReply

What's the glossiest media you can use with the 7900 and get great results with it?  I realize that the pigment printers can't match the dye printers but how close do they come?
Logged
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2804


« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2009, 02:37:34 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Wayne Fox
The current exception being the 11880, which does have dedicated MK and PK channels.

Correct. Second time I did forget that one. Getting old. It has that one blind head that could have done a nice GE job.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html








Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2808



WWW
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2009, 02:40:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
What's the glossiest media you can use with the 7900 and get great results with it?  I realize that the pigment printers can't match the dye printers but how close do they come?

For high gloss, my current preference is Harmon Gloss FB AL, beautiful gloss surface with rich saturated colors, great detail, and deep blacks.  Personally I prefer a little texture on my papers, so I don't use it much, but I have profiled and tried it on the 7900, and for scenes with a lot of very small detail I may use it.  I like it better than the RC gloss papers.

  Not sure how "close" it comes, because I haven't used any dye based printers for a very long time.
Logged

Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2009, 02:55:28 PM »
ReplyReply

Just spoke with MeridianCyber and waiting for Kirk to call me back.  I don't use a lot of high gloss media but obviously in the beginning years of pigment the results on gloss were not so great (putting it nicely) and now it seems that the prints on glossy media from the latest and greatest aren't too far off.  I just wonder why Epson doesn't use the GO on their large format printers and then it's capable of anything (My ignorance is showing here since I don't know how good the 7900 is on gloss).  Naturally I'll keep my other printers and use them for gloss if the 7900 doesn't prove to be as good as even a 1280.
Logged
Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Spoke with Kirk, he'll do a little on the price.  He did state that the 7900 is very close color gamut to Epson 1280 if not exceeding it and on gloss papers it's very nice, not quite as nice as the dye printers but he said very close, he's sending me some prints overnight and I should have the printer by next Friday.
Logged
Primus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 31


« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2009, 09:20:10 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
Spoke with Kirk, he'll do a little on the price.  He did state that the 7900 is very close color gamut to Epson 1280 if not exceeding it and on gloss papers it's very nice, not quite as nice as the dye printers but he said very close, he's sending me some prints overnight and I should have the printer by next Friday.

Great! Group discount does apply. He did say that he would give me a refund too. I am happy nevertheless as the price is good to begin with.

Pradeep
Logged
Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2009, 10:45:50 PM »
ReplyReply

It was actually only $25.00 and I'm going to tell him to keep it because he's paying to overnight me prints.  He knows where he's at on price and I checked a "little" and didn't find it cheaper, though I'm sure you can, but It seems their service is 1st rate.  I'll be excited to get it.  

I must admit the reason to consider the Z3200, better on glossy papers doesn't seem to be true, I can't get anybody to say that the HP does better on gloss.  You'd think with the GE it would have to be, common says a clear coat has to even the pigments out.  It seems like the output from the Z3200 and the 7900 are darn close, but I've read enough about the paper handling to know that the Epson is the one for me.  

Logged
neil snape
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1432


WWW
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2009, 02:11:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
It was actually only $25.00 and I'm going to tell him to keep it because he's paying to overnight me prints.  He knows where he's at on price and I checked a "little" and didn't find it cheaper, though I'm sure you can, but It seems their service is 1st rate.  I'll be excited to get it.  

I must admit the reason to consider the Z3200, better on glossy papers doesn't seem to be true, I can't get anybody to say that the HP does better on gloss.  You'd think with the GE it would have to be, common says a clear coat has to even the pigments out.  It seems like the output from the Z3200 and the 7900 are darn close, but I've read enough about the paper handling to know that the Epson is the one for me.



To simplify to the point of one does better than the other wouldn't describe the process or results well.

The HP inks have a large gloss differential in particular in the light grey. Without the gloss enhancer it is pretty much unacceptable on glossy papers. With it though in both eco mode and whole page the results exceed all other large format printers BUT the light grey inks are still under the gloss enhancer. There is an apparent change visible under GE, yet the white and near paper whites are completely corrected, hence an overall improvement on glossy and photo surfaces.
The Epson inksets, only have a small amount of gloss differential more often than not being acceptable for most viewing conditions, yet the Z series surpass it with the application of GE. Overall GE is so well designed that you wouldn't think not to use it and it solves the problem so well that it is a real plus. Only one drawback that is it's fragility is more important than the paper base.
Logged
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2804


« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2009, 03:22:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
It seems like the output from the Z3200 and the 7900 are darn close, but I've read enough about the paper handling to know that the Epson is the one for me.


There is an aspect on the automatic paper handling of the x900 models that you should know:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=33141



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
Logged
William Morse
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 174


WWW
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2009, 06:37:38 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi Andrew-

It's funny, when the 7k/9k, then the 76/9600's came out, the shimmy was allegedly planned, so as to mix the ink (!) That's why it was better, so the story went, to get a machine on a stand LOL.

Seriously, tho, I can see lots of reasons to buy the 79/9900's, but extra weight to avoid shimmy isn't high on my list.

Bill

Quote from: digitaldog
Stability. Ever see one (or the other) shimmy while printing?
Logged

Wm. Morse Editions
A Fine-Art Digital Printmaking Studio
Photography, Limited Editions, Film Drum Scanning
Restored Early 20th Century Photos of China
www.MorseEditions.com
Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2009, 06:52:00 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
There is an aspect on the automatic paper handling of the x900 models that you should know:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=33141



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/


Oouch   Is this with all papers or just with particular ones?  Will the Epson papers have this problem?  I read that thread you link to and that's rather discouraging.
Logged
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 8595



WWW
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2009, 06:58:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: William Morse
It's funny, when the 7k/9k, then the 76/9600's came out, the shimmy was allegedly planned, so as to mix the ink (!) That's why it was better, so the story went, to get a machine on a stand LOL.

Seriously, tho, I can see lots of reasons to buy the 79/9900's, but extra weight to avoid shimmy isn't high on my list.

Never heard that shimmying was to keep the ink mixed, sound completely silly to me.

I'm not suggesting the new printer is heavy to avoid shimmy, its heavy because its build like a tank. It is funny to see some of these large printers shimmy however. Doesn't distill absolute confidence.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
digitaldog
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 8595



WWW
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2009, 07:01:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
Oouch   Is this with all papers or just with particular ones?  Will the Epson papers have this problem?  I read that thread you link to and that's rather discouraging.

I wonder if its due to an less then ideal Media setting which sets the platen gap. One can manually adjust this.

As mentioned, the new E-platen button now replaces the lever in previous models, Epson has always recommended this action after printing.
Logged

Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
snickgrr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 270


WWW
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2009, 07:56:10 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
Oouch   Is this with all papers or just with particular ones?  Will the Epson papers have this problem?  I read that thread you link to and that's rather discouraging.


It's a non issue with me.  I haven't seen it yet and I don't print on any Epson papers.  I do release the paper between printing and find the process to reinsert the paper to mindless and effortless.  What,  30 secs?
Logged
Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2009, 08:30:28 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: snickgrr
It's a non issue with me.  I haven't seen it yet and I don't print on any Epson papers.  I do release the paper between printing and find the process to reinsert the paper to mindless and effortless.  What,  30 secs?


It's kind of a PITA for me since the printer wont be in the same room.
Logged
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2808



WWW
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2009, 01:32:30 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Gemmtech
Oouch   Is this with all papers or just with particular ones?  Will the Epson papers have this problem?  I read that thread you link to and that's rather discouraging.

I've seen this with my 11880 if I leave the roll paper loaded without printing for a day or two, but haven't seen it with the 7900.  It certainly doesn't happen in 10 or 20 minutes ... it's not like you have to unload the roll right after printing every print.  With the 11880 i just advance a few inches and cut it, and use the piece to wrap around rolls when not in use. Takes the same amount of paper as unloading it since I use the optional barcode which must be cut off when the roll is reloaded.

My ipf6100 also left some marks in the paper if I left the roll loaded for a couple of days without printing.
Logged

Gemmtech
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 526


« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2009, 02:34:10 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Wayne Fox
I've seen this with my 11880 if I leave the roll paper loaded without printing for a day or two, but haven't seen it with the 7900.  It certainly doesn't happen in 10 or 20 minutes ... it's not like you have to unload the roll right after printing every print.  With the 11880 i just advance a few inches and cut it, and use the piece to wrap around rolls when not in use. Takes the same amount of paper as unloading it since I use the optional barcode which must be cut off when the roll is reloaded.

My ipf6100 also left some marks in the paper if I left the roll loaded for a couple of days without printing.

Wayne,

This is interesting, something I wasn't aware of.  So, if you are sitting at your computer and the printer is in the other room you can advance the paper a few inches and cut it off with the auto cutter and then start printing?  Do you leave the roll paper in your 7900 all the time?  I had intended on using the barcode.  
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad