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Author Topic: Phase One Takes Controlling Interest of Mamiya  (Read 19029 times)
ziocan
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« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2009, 12:55:48 AM »
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Quote from: EricWHiss
Well that's sort of my point - how long have Mamiya shooters waited for leaf shutter lenses and now just getting 1/400.   Plenty of better cameras out there already much more developed with wonderful lenses.  Sure Mamiya has a few nice lenses now but which ones have leaf shutters?   Anyhow go ahead and wait a few years - you still won't have half of what Contax and Rollei shooters have had for 10 years or more.    And if Mamiya comes out with a new camera body and new lenses do you expect them to be cheaper than used Rollei or Contax lenses?  Probably not.....  So go ahead and wait. It's always your choice.
You may also consider that future digital backs may not support Contax and Rollei, which can eventually been used as paper weight or door stop at your preferences.

On another note, it would be interesting to get a statistic of which one of mamiya, Contax or hasselblad get serviced more often on these days.
On the mamiya pro days, the hassys and pentax 67 were serviced the most. Surprisingly, the "plasticy" POS Mamiya were failing at a lower rate than the others. it felt cheap but it hardly broke down. On the other hand the hassy felt sturdy, but boys, it was visiting the shop more often than a Ducati.
Most of the times that I rented a Contax 645 I needed to use the back up body. May be a coincidence but, I also listened to colleagues opinion saying that the Contax is a "stupid" camera that break down too often.
So much for snubbing mamiya, but there are all kind of opinions and experiences with different cameras. To each its own, I would say.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 01:01:07 AM by ziocan » Logged
ziocan
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« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2009, 12:57:38 AM »
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.....
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 12:58:02 AM by ziocan » Logged
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« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2009, 02:33:03 AM »
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That's funny about the Ducati!  Certainly true for the one I had.

I was speaking with a camera dealer here in the bay area that sets up cameras for scientific use and he was telling me how reliable the Rollei's were - and how accurate they were in terms of exposure and such. Much more so than other makes.  He found that the average life before service on the lenses was 1,000,000 frames.    

I hope there is a back for my 6008 AF in the future - I understand that I can have the p65+ fitted to it - so at least for a while its still an option....  And I hope F&H pulls through too.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 02:38:37 AM by EricWHiss » Logged

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photo570
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« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2009, 01:21:09 AM »
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"This is excellent news for both Phase One and Mamiya owners, because the relationship between digital sensors (backs) and a camera's optical train is becoming increasingly significant. By combining Phase's world-leading expertise in digital imaging with Mamiya's decades long excellence in lens design and fabrication can only mean good things for us photographers going forward"

Quoted from Michaels interview with Henrik O. Håkonsson.

Doesn't this sound eerily familiar? Can everyone say Hassleblad?

My prediction.

Closed Mamiya/Phase system within 12mths.

Cheers,
Jason.


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Jason Berge
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« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2009, 02:58:45 AM »
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Quote from: photo570
"This is excellent news for both Phase One and Mamiya owners, because the relationship between digital sensors (backs) and a camera's optical train is becoming increasingly significant. By combining Phase's world-leading expertise in digital imaging with Mamiya's decades long excellence in lens design and fabrication can only mean good things for us photographers going forward"

Quoted from Michaels interview with Henrik O. Håkonsson.

Doesn't this sound eerily familiar? Can everyone say Hassleblad?

My prediction.

Closed Mamiya/Phase system within 12mths.

Cheers,
Jason.

Hi
Why close the system? Think about it, with the MAC Group USA, for every DL28 or DL33 that sells some of that money is going to Phase One. The MAC Group is an excellent company & do you think that they would care? This is what I call a win win situation, so why close it?
Denis
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« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2009, 03:07:42 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
Why close the system? Think about it, with the MAC Group USA, for every DL28 or DL33 that sells some of that money is going to Phase One. The MAC Group is an excellent company & do you think that they would care? This is what I call a win win situation, so why close it?
Denis

Why go closed? Because there is no money to be made in bodies. The manufacturers which are thriving are those which manufacture backs.
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« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2009, 03:41:01 AM »
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Exactly, the MAC does not even enter the equation. It will be what Phase thinks will sell the most backs. And we all know how it went for Hassleblad. Oh that's right, they survived and are doing quite nicely by all accounts.

Not voteing either way, just saying what is blindingly obvious.

Cheers,
Jason.

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Jason Berge
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« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2009, 05:17:31 AM »
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Quote from: photo570
Exactly, the MAC does not even enter the equation. It will be what Phase thinks will sell the most backs. And we all know how it went for Hassleblad. Oh that's right, they survived and are doing quite nicely by all accounts.

Not voteing either way, just saying what is blindingly obvious.

Cheers,
Jason.

So what you are saying is close the system & let Leaf/Sinar try to resolve the F&H problem? This is every man for himself?
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michael
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« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2009, 06:50:36 AM »
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Quote from: photo570
"This is excellent news for both Phase One and Mamiya owners, because the relationship between digital sensors (backs) and a camera's optical train is becoming increasingly significant. By combining Phase's world-leading expertise in digital imaging with Mamiya's decades long excellence in lens design and fabrication can only mean good things for us photographers going forward"

Quoted from Michaels interview with Henrik O. Håkonsson.

Doesn't this sound eerily familiar? Can everyone say Hassleblad?

My prediction.

Closed Mamiya/Phase system within 12mths.

Cheers,
Jason.

I can't agree.

The whole industry is moving toward software based optical correction, so Phase doing so with some of their new lenses is to be expected. But, to my knowledge, they remain seriously committed to open systems. The two are not in conflict.

Stay tuned. More on this soon, and it won't be about the system being closed.

Michael

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TimG
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« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2009, 09:09:36 AM »
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I just hope Mamiya/Phase One continue to keep two (three) of my favorite systems alive, the RB/RZ and the 7/7II Rangefinder.
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« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2009, 10:34:21 AM »
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yes, yes, yes
that's an idea that wasn't mentioned in this thread, beside the different backs, and maybe an all in one Reflex with a >30 MP sensor, there is now a least a chance to see a Mamiya 7D. There IS a market for this kind of stuff!

Tom-
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ziocan
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2009, 12:13:35 PM »
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Quote from: tom_l
yes, yes, yes
that's an idea that wasn't mentioned in this thread, beside the different backs, and maybe an all in one Reflex with a >30 MP sensor, there is now a least a chance to see a Mamiya 7D. There IS a market for this kind of stuff!

Tom-
a mamiya 7d would be great.

On the other hand, Phase one controlling Mamiya, means BMW pricing and policies, when what they are selling is not even close to BMW quality. I actually like BMW warranty system and policy but we drive a BMW out of their dealer ship. By not means owning and using a Phase or Mamiya product give the same kind of experience, performance or reliability.
Not that Hasselblad is much better anyway, they are at best a Saab or a Volvo.
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bcooter
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« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2009, 12:35:47 PM »
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Quote from: michael
Stay tuned. More on this soon, and it won't be about the system being closed.

Michael


Let's hope the news is about the Rolleiflex and the Phase folks are making HY6 adapters as we speak.

To some extent these are tools, but on the higher end, when a camera and back is minimum twice the price of a Nikon or Canon, these cameras fall more into the want than need catagory.

The strangest thing about all of this is if you made a check list of what a photographer wants  from a camera system I don't think you would end up with what we have today.

Who would have thought that in the high end of professional cameras no  Zeiss lenses, or the name Rolleiflex would be replaced with a private label.  Who would have dreamed that Hasselblad would outsource to Fuji or when all the digital shakeup is completed one of the few cameras left standing would have been a Mamiya 645 and the tilt shift lenses would be rebadged from the Ukraine?

Does anyone actually lust over a Mamiya 645?  

Imacon/Hasselblad is lucky because they still have that famous logo and regardless of what anyone says, where things are made, how much they cost, the logo means something.

[attachment=12568:mfdcameras.jpg]

It's the HY6, AFI. that confuses me.  It is in the lust category, but instead of just calling the thing Rolleiflex, painting it in beautiful black, offering a wide angle lens and making a clear statement of what this camera does, to this day it is still confusing.  Can you get a 90 degree prism, can you rotate a digital back on this camera without disconnecting, how many lenses are available in autofocus  and the big one, can/will this camera show up in rental?  Obviously if I can post these questions others have also so somehow, somebody missed the chance to put this camera out there with a lot of resource.  

I assume it's a money decision, but since none of these companies write in clear speak, who knows?

People cried when Contax went belly up, but with just a few slight changes the HY6 Rolleiflex could be THE professional camera, though instead Phase options the 1,000 horsepower Mamiya.  

It's not that the Mamiya 645 is a bad camera, it's not, it's competent, the "prior" versions were reasonable in price, but when I look at that photo of the AFD it doesn't look that much different than all of the other dslrs I have in cases and when you drop many tens of thousands of dollars on cameras, you want to unzip that case and see it glow like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.  Especially when you start talking price in the $45,000 range.

Since the start of digital capture the tail started wagging the dog.  It's as if Shell and Exxon bought all the car companies, (actually I guess today they probably could) and started rebranding them.

If the car companies were like medium format cameras then the Shell Jaguar would only work well with Shell gasoline, the Exxon Porsche would   . . . . . . well you get the idea.

Has any driver ever lusted over a brand of petroleum?

To me, Nikon, Canon and Sony get it.  They understand that a digital camera should still look like a camera, act like a camera and function like one.  They give you an LCD that actually does replace a polaroid, will shoot without 350 lbs of computer tagging along and have file formats that works at any "lab".    Sony even knows that Zeiss carries some weight and I don't think anyone can discount what any of  these three companies can do if they set their mind and wallets to it.
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TMARK
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« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2009, 01:15:31 PM »
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Quote from: photo570
Exactly, the MAC does not even enter the equation. It will be what Phase thinks will sell the most backs. And we all know how it went for Hassleblad. Oh that's right, they survived and are doing quite nicely by all accounts.

Not voteing either way, just saying what is blindingly obvious.

Cheers,
Jason.

MAC has everything to do with Mamiya, at least in the US.  MAC owns the trade mark "Mamiya" in the US and is the exclusive agent for importation.  If anything has Mamiya stamped on it, and its not imported by MAC, it is contraband and is subject to seizure.  If MAC doesn't play ball Mamiya cannot import anything into the US, Phase or no Phase.  
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michael
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« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2009, 01:39:49 PM »
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Quote from: TMARK
MAC has everything to do with Mamiya, at least in the US.  MAC owns the trade mark "Mamiya" in the US and is the exclusive agent for importation.  If anything has Mamiya stamped on it, and its not imported by MAC, it is contraband and is subject to seizure.  If MAC doesn't play ball Mamiya cannot import anything into the US, Phase or no Phase.

So, isn't it interesting that Phase One's cameras and lenses are branded... wait for it... Phase One, not Mamiya.

Frankly, I don't think that in the high-end and pro market Mamiya has too much cache. The name Phase One does, because it's associated with high-end gear.

Time will tell.

Michael

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« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2009, 02:22:48 PM »
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Quote from: michael
So, isn't it interesting that Phase One's cameras and lenses are branded... wait for it... Phase One, not Mamiya.

Frankly, I don't think that in the high-end and pro market Mamiya has too much cache. The name Phase One does, because it's associated with high-end gear.

Time will tell.

Michael

Hi Michael
With Phase One now in control of Mamiya are you saying there will be a name change?
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« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2009, 02:24:24 PM »
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Quote from: michael
So, isn't it interesting that Phase One's cameras and lenses are branded... wait for it... Phase One, not Mamiya.

Frankly, I don't think that in the high-end and pro market Mamiya has too much cache. The name Phase One does, because it's associated with high-end gear.

Time will tell.

Michael

My point was that MAC is a factor in any decision to make future Mamiya cameras Phase One only.  I have no idea where the MAC Group factors into the Phase One branded AFdXX cams.
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Bill Caulfeild-Browne
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« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2009, 02:31:01 PM »
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Quote from: ziocan
You may also consider that future digital backs may not support Contax and Rollei, which can eventually been used as paper weight or door stop at your preferences.

On another note, it would be interesting to get a statistic of which one of mamiya, Contax or hasselblad get serviced more often on these days.
On the mamiya pro days, the hassys and pentax 67 were serviced the most. Surprisingly, the "plasticy" POS Mamiya were failing at a lower rate than the others. it felt cheap but it hardly broke down. On the other hand the hassy felt sturdy, but boys, it was visiting the shop more often than a Ducati.
Most of the times that I rented a Contax 645 I needed to use the back up body. May be a coincidence but, I also listened to colleagues opinion saying that the Contax is a "stupid" camera that break down too often.
So much for snubbing mamiya, but there are all kind of opinions and experiences with different cameras. To each its own, I would say.

Interesting views in this thread! I've owned H'blad 500s and FC, Rollei 6008s and Mamiya Pro, AFD II and III, though only the last two with with a digital back.

The Rolleis were utterly reliable. I used them for about ten years and never once had a problem with either body or any lenses.

The H'blads were in the shop annually - usually because of ill-fitting magazines or shutter problems. I gave them up for the Rolleis.

My first Mamiya Pro was stolen so I don't know how reliable it would have been, but the AFD II and III have been faultless for several years. I hear a lot about "build quality" and "plasticky"  but I just don't see it. Mine feel solid and rugged. (And the lenses are anything but plasticky.)

As you say, each to his own!

Bill
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bcooter
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« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2009, 02:34:29 PM »
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Quote from: michael
So, isn't it interesting that Phase One's cameras and lenses are branded... wait for it... Phase One, not Mamiya.

Frankly, I don't think that in the high-end and pro market Mamiya has too much cache. The name Phase One does, because it's associated with high-end gear.

Time will tell.

Michael

Michael,

With all due respect, I can promise you that in the world of high end professional photography, from New York to LA, LA to Paris, Paris to Milan, there are more Mamiya cameras (mostly RZ's) that are available and used for more campaigns and editorials than anything branded Phase One on the front end.   Most of them with film, though a lot of digital backs still go on RZ's.

Even if the RZ disappeared today, it has a reputation that will take another decade to erase in the professional ranks.

Nobody has an issue with the name Mamiya, it's just the 645 AFD that has always been the weak sister.  The 7, the RZs have amazing loyalty and reputations and if there were "easy and affordable" digital solutions that allowed the use of the complete frame, those cameras would still be selling.

Nobody is knocking the quality of a Phase One back, but as stated if Phase is going after all markets, including the Country Club set, a Phase One camera won't get a lot of recognition, if you compare it to the brand equity of Rollei, Leica and Hasselblad.

Your a good example of this.  You've gone from Rollei, to  Contax, to Hasselblad, now to the Phase/Mamiya 645 and when you made those first three purchases the Mamiya 645 was available.  

So why the change of heart now considering like a lot of people you do most of your processing in either lightroom or photoshop, so many of the so called digital integration advantages are bypassed.

There is nothing wrong with brand loyalty and obviously when it came time to write the check you chose Phase, but even though this is pure speculation, I'm willing to bet that if Phase had gone to the Rollei platform, of could have stayed with Hasselblad your P65 would not be mounted on camera with a Phase One logo.

But your right, time will tell.

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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2009, 03:55:31 PM »
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Or, as the late, great, governor from Alaska, Sarah Palin, once said, "You can put lipstick on a pig, but I'm still a pig."
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