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Author Topic: Hasselblad HTS - anyone get to test the final production unit?  (Read 24729 times)
Lust4Life
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« on: March 26, 2009, 07:03:49 AM »
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I am curious to hear from anyone that has had a chance to test out the new Hasselblad HTS unit.

Impressions?
DOF capabilities for landscape work?

Thanks,
Jack
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roonie
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009, 09:54:24 AM »
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We have received our HTS two weeks ago and are very pleased with it!


Optical corrections (such as distortion) are pretty well handled. You should be aware that most of lenses that fit HTS (from 28mm to 100mm) show their limits in extreme tilting/shifting. Hasselblad advices  working "ranges" where you should not be too far away....  We are using it today with the HC80mm and it does the job well!  Except some vignetting that Phocus hardly handles as lens is extemely tilted.


One another thing: HTS implies a darker viewfinder (about 1,5 f/stops) that makes focusing tough (through viewfinder I mean...)


There are even predictable, conflicts between such high tech gear as HTS and common accessories like lens Proshade (see picture). Proshade can''t be fully extended as it comes right to the tilt knob!  We can't blame Hasselblad for it as Proshade was designed years before HTS!


Let's see what kind of improvements will be brought by Hasselblad people to make Phocus and HTS a perfect weapon! ;-)



roonie


PS: Forgive my poor quality pictures... Cellphones are far away from MF quality! ;-)


[attachment=12497:DSC00093.JPG]

[attachment=12498:DSC00094.JPG]

[attachment=12499:DSC00095.jpg]

[attachment=12500:DSC00096.jpg]
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gwhitf
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009, 10:03:48 AM »
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Quote from: roonie
We have received our HTS two weeks ago and are very pleased with it!

This is good news for all H users. Even if the HTS remains a rental item and not a purchase item.

I still yearn for the HS model, which would allow shift only, and would sell for $2495.

Another option, much cheaper, would be what I used yesterday for a panorama, which was the RRS Pano Head along with AutoStitch function of CS4 Photoshop. AutoStitch CS4 is mindblowingly accurate. For me, RRS ($360), plus CS4 Upgrade ($199), was much cheaper than HTS ($5400).


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j.miller
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 10:28:05 AM »
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A note-worthy feature, that has not been mentioned, is the ability to drive the focus of the lens, with the HTS attached, via the focus drive controls within Phocus. Considering the HTS disables auto-focus operation via the camera, this focus control in a tethered configuration provides some help for those using the HTS for indoor / product / still life work.

Jack, as you might already know, the HTS has been shipping for some time now. We have quite a few, extremely happy users, including H3DII-Series as well as H1/2 camera users. As roonie has mentioned, you can introduce some vignetting with both shift and tilt at maximum. However, I find most users do not have the need for both maximum tilt, in conjunction with maximum shift (or vise-versa).

The HVM waist-level finder can sometimes help improve the viewfinder image when using the HTS, allowing for a slightly brighter and sharper image. The HVM can present issues in composing with the camera, but it has become a more valuable accessory to go along with the HTS.

I will put some sample images together, showing the range of movement that is possible with HTS 1.5, HC-D 28mm, and H3DII-50 (the same would apply for the 22MP and 39MP systems as well). These images will strictly show the movement range (shift and tilt), and will not be a basis for judging sharpness.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

[quote name='roonie' date='Mar 26 2009, 09:54 AM' post='271092']
We have received our HTS two weeks ago and are very pleased with it!

Optical corrections (such as distortion) are pretty well handled. You should be aware that most of lenses that fit HTS (from 28mm to 100mm) show their limits in extreme tilting/shifting. Hasselblad advices  working "ranges" where you should not be too far away....  We are using it today with the HC80mm and it does the job well!  Except some vignetting that Phocus hardly handles as lens is extemely tilted.

One another thing: HTS implies a darker viewfinder (about 1,5 f/stops) that makes focusing tough (through viewfinder I mean...)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:51:20 AM by j.miller » Logged
doncody
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 10:31:57 AM »
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I'm an H2/Leaf shooter.  Other than the advantages that the Phocus/DAC software might bring, is there any reason why I couldn't use it for architectural?

Thanks,
Don
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roonie
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 10:33:01 AM »
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Quote from: JEM_DTG
A note-worthy feature, that has not been mentioned, is the ability to drive the focus of the lens, with the HTS attached, via the focus drive controls within Phocus. Considering the HTS disables auto-focus operation via the camera, this focus control in a tethered configuration provides some help for those using the HTS for indoor / product / still life work.


Yes you're right about it but Phocus requires so much hardware ressources and refresh rate on LV is so low that focusing is real pain!
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roonie
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 10:38:50 AM »
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Quote from: doncody
I'm an H2/Leaf shooter.  Other than the advantages that the Phocus/DAC software might bring, is there any reason why I couldn't use it for architectural?

Thanks,
Don


We also use the HCD28mm with HTS (not for architectural I must admit) but it takes real power from DAC corrections!
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 10:53:05 AM »
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Quote from: doncody
I'm an H2/Leaf shooter.  Other than the advantages that the Phocus/DAC software might bring, is there any reason why I couldn't use it for architectural?

Thanks,
Don

It will not work as the HTS only works with h3d and H2f with cf back.
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ixpressraf
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 11:11:49 AM »
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Quote from: John Schweikert
This is a quote from David Grover from Hasselblad in a previous thread on the HTS to an H2 owner:

"Yes, you can fit the HTS to your body and Phase Back. It is not exclusive to H3D models."


Then we have a winner: you can't use the 28 with a phase or leaf back but the combination will work. Yep, go for it.
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j.miller
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 11:12:25 AM »
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The Hasselblad HTS 1.5 is compatible with the entire H-Series camera platform. This includes the H1 and H2 with Leaf, PhaseOne, Sinar, and film backs. There several advantages that can be realized with using the HTS with the H3DII and/or H2F with a CF-Series back (DAC, metadata, Ultra-Focus, etc.). If you look, the most recent Hasselblad firmware update, specific to the H-Series bodies, (ie. 081222.hbf) is adding the necessary HTS support for the various H-Series bodies  (ie. H1, H2, H2F, H1D, H2D, H3D, H3DII).

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote from: ixpressraf
It will not work as the HTS only works with h3d and H2f with cf back.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:51:05 AM by j.miller » Logged
roonie
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 11:15:56 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
This is good news for all H users. Even if the HTS remains a rental item and not a purchase item.

I still yearn for the HS model, which would allow shift only, and would sell for $2495.

Another option, much cheaper, would be what I used yesterday for a panorama, which was the RRS Pano Head along with AutoStitch function of CS4 Photoshop. AutoStitch CS4 is mindblowingly accurate. For me, RRS ($360), plus CS4 Upgrade ($199), was much cheaper than HTS ($5400).



It depends, effectively, what kind of use you give to HTS!


We bought HTS because we think that digital high end cameras (like H series) combined with a T/S solution (like HTS or dedicated lenses like Nikkor PC-E or Hartblei/Phase one gear) are the next step in digital evolution! (for still life and architectural photographers I mean.....)

Switching to this solution made us "throwing out" our old Sinar P!  ;-)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 11:18:00 AM by roonie » Logged
j.miller
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 11:19:56 AM »
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Attached are a series of images showing the full shift range of the HTS, in conjunction with the HC-D 28mm, and the H3DII-50 (36x48mm sensor). Bear in mind, these were quick, tripod mounted images that were shot to give an accurate representation of "shift" movement found in the HTS. It is worth noting, no lens hood/flag was used, so please excuse flare evident in the image(s).

I will post a few more examples later today. I do not have images representing every possible configuration of movements, so feel free to manipulate these images to help better understand the possible movements and image coverage.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:50:49 AM by j.miller » Logged
gwhitf
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 11:41:57 AM »
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Is it me, or does it seem that the main issue here, (that everyone is subtlely hinting at), is focus with this device?

Are there ways that you could get yourself into trouble here, with focus, if movements are too extreme?

Or am I even hearing more concerns with just focus in general, even when it's not in extreme movements?

Remember in the old days, when there were those 1.5 bad tele-extenders, and they had an awful piece of glass in them, and you'd take those good Nikon lenses, and combine them with that funky glass in the tele-extenders, and the results would be mush? It's sorta that same thing I'm hearing here, in the way people talk about this device. Not that the glass is bad, but that something is just not adding up.

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j.miller
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 11:57:47 AM »
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GBPhoto,
      The image was leveled at the tripod head (leveling base, spirit level), and the head (ARCA-SWISS C1 Cube) was then adjusted to bring the left-hand (stone wall) and right-hand vertical lines (hotel and flagpole in the distance) straight, while maintaining the levels on the head. The camera position was fixed, in this position, for all images. I am not sure if this answers you question(s), but let me know if this helps.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote from: GBPhoto
Is the camera tilted up in this example?  The zero'd image shows the center of frame well above camera height.  It's kind of hard to tell which lines are really vertical in this scene. (not criticizing, thanks for the example - just trying to get a handle on what's going on here...)
[attachment=12507:HTS_LL_HCD28_Edit.jpg]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:50:26 AM by j.miller » Logged
doncody
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 12:48:22 PM »
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Thanks everyone.  I guess my point/question is.  Aside from the arguments about the quality of digital large format lenses, and possibly some other LF features, with the introduction of this product I can accomplish essentially the same thing that I could with an Alpa, Cambo, or other large format solution with a Leaf back?  

Thanks,
Don
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hcubell
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 01:18:17 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Is it me, or does it seem that the main issue here, (that everyone is subtlely hinting at), is focus with this device?

Are there ways that you could get yourself into trouble here, with focus, if movements are too extreme?

Or am I even hearing more concerns with just focus in general, even when it's not in extreme movements?

Remember in the old days, when there were those 1.5 bad tele-extenders, and they had an awful piece of glass in them, and you'd take those good Nikon lenses, and combine them with that funky glass in the tele-extenders, and the results would be mush? It's sorta that same thing I'm hearing here, in the way people talk about this device. Not that the glass is bad, but that something is just not adding up.

I do think focus is a serious issue if you are using the HTS untethered in low light, and I am not satisfied at this point how effective the HTS is for landscape work. If you are able to shoot tethered with Live View in Phocus, no problem, I am told(so far).
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Cfranson
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 01:26:21 PM »
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Quote from: ixpressraf
Then we have a winner: you can't use the 28 with a phase or leaf back but the combination will work. Yep, go for it.
Nope, the 28 and HTS combo doesn't work on an H2; you get the same error as when trying to use the H2 and 28mm without the HTS. The other HTS supported lenses- which aren't HCD lenses- do work on an H2, but without use of the light meter nor indication on the body display of the HTS settings, in addition to the other limitations found on the H2D, H3D and H2F.
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Nick-T
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 02:56:11 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Is it me, or does it seem that the main issue here, (that everyone is subtlely hinting at), is focus with this device?

Are there ways that you could get yourself into trouble here, with focus, if movements are too extreme?

Or am I even hearing more concerns with just focus in general, even when it's not in extreme movements?

Remember in the old days, when there were those 1.5 bad tele-extenders, and they had an awful piece of glass in them, and you'd take those good Nikon lenses, and combine them with that funky glass in the tele-extenders, and the results would be mush? It's sorta that same thing I'm hearing here, in the way people talk about this device. Not that the glass is bad, but that something is just not adding up.

Worry not George.
There seems to be no discernable loss of quality due to the extra glass, users have found this to be the case with the 1.7X extender. More glass doesn't seem to always equate to lower quality.
I don't think it's that hard to focus, I did some shots at 'kina focussing with modelling bulbs and was able to nail focus on the eyes with a fair bit of tilt:

[attachment=12513:Kina_0002.jpg]
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j.miller
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 02:57:00 PM »
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GBPhoto,
     Thanks for looking into this with such detail. I did in fact mislabel the images, as you suspected. My mistake in pulling the images, I had not carefully double checked the metadata (ie. HTS settings) with the actual image composition. The image(s) has since been correctly labeled, along with exact HTS values (derived from the metadata) as they are recorded (note the order of these values has changed).

I will have some additional samples soon, and will be sure to double check the metadata before labeling. That does bring up a good point, that in our case here, I HAVE the metadata to refer!

I would certainly suggest any one interested in the HTS, to contact your preferred dealer and set up a hands-on demo. The practical use of this new product really helps to appreciate the features.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote from: GBPhoto
Are the first two images mislabeled? (0, +6mm, +15mm?)
[attachment=12511:HTS_LL_HCD28_Edit2.jpg]
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:50:04 AM by j.miller » Logged
j.miller
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2009, 10:25:27 AM »
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Attached is another sample image, re-sized appropriately, to show the level of vignetting introduced at full shift (17.7mm-18mm), without tilt. What is interesting, is when this same configuration is only shifted +/-15mm, as apposed to the full 17-18mm, this slight vignetting is completely eliminated. This allows for an ideal image composition for multi-image stitching. To clarify, the configuration used for this image is as follows:

H3DII-50 (36x48mm sensor)
HC-D 28mm f/4
HTS 1.5 Tilt/Shift Adapter

Regards,

Jordan Miller
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:48:54 AM by j.miller » Logged
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