Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Hasselblad HTS - anyone get to test the final production unit?  (Read 23731 times)
yaya
Guest
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2009, 03:23:05 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: JEM_DTG
Attached is another sample image, re-sized appropriately, to show the level of vignetting introduced at full shift (17.7mm-18mm), without tilt. What is interesting, is when this same configuration is only shifted +/-15mm, as apposed to the full 17-18mm, this slight vignetting is completely eliminated. This allows for an ideal image composition for multi-image stitching. To clarify, the configuration used for this image is as follows:

H3DII-50 (36x48mm sensor)
HC-D 28mm f/4
HTS 1.5 Tilt/Shift Adapter

Regards,

Jordan Miller
Digital Technology Group, Inc.

Nice Jordan, now all they need is to straighten that building's walls:-) Any chance you can have a word with the architect?
Logged
imagetone
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51


WWW
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2009, 12:47:51 PM »
ReplyReply

As a new member I should introduce myself, I shoot a range of commercial subjects, based in Leeds, England.

I hired the HTS adapter for a couple of days to test with my H1 and a couple of Phase backs (P25+, P45+). I was interested mainly in how useful it was in the studio so didn't really test shifts with architectural and interior subjects.  I'm not sure how useful the 35mm lens is in this context given the adapter magnifies 1.5x.  

The adapter worked fine once the H1 was upgraded to the latest firmware and I was able to confirm it was useable for me with the 80mm including with extension tubes, although this restricts the useable image circle. The limitations I found were that the maximum tilt was not suffiicient to get the plane of focus laid flat when shooting close in and obviously the shift and tilt can't be at 90 deg. to each other.

The images processed fine in C1 4.6.3 with a lens cast correction. Attached is a quick test of a (worn and dusty) watch with the P25+,  80mm plus extension, f16, tilt with rotation, soft look sharpening in C1. Quick and dirty removal of  a reflector in PS, plus curves tweak.

Tony May
www.tonymayimages.com

[attachment=12547:Tilt_6291.jpg]
Logged

David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009, 01:50:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks for sharing the experience Tony.

Its good to see the HTS getting lots of use.  The few that are in hire at the Pro Centre are out 24/7.

Best,


David

Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
gwhitf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 818


« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009, 02:07:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Thanks for sharing the experience Tony.
Its good to see the HTS getting lots of use.  The few that are in hire at the Pro Centre are out 24/7.
Best,
David

Mr. Grover,

You're a big boy and all, and I'm sure not telling you how to run your bidness, but Tony's illustration above makes my point, that the uses for Tilt are radically different from the uses for Shift.

A Shifty Guy might never need to tilt, and a Tilty Guy might only be looking for increased depth of field. Two completely different uses; two completely different kinds of photographers. Having that HTS unit do both Tilt and Shift is like Black & Decker coming out with a Cuisinart that also has a Welding Attachment.

Tilty is for Still Life, and Shifty is for the Landscape and Advertising Guys, who need to delivery massive files, and plenty of bleed.

I propose the Hasselblad HS, for $2495, (or $1995), that Shifts only.

The goal here is for a Regular Photographer to be able to buy one of those things for his own studio, instead of selling one each of those HTS to every Rental House in the world, and that be the end of it.

I know you want to stay in your Closed Universe, but face the fact that there are a zillion guys out there, using H1 or H2 bodies with Phase backs, that might want to buy this thing. We don't care about all the software fixes in Hocus Phocus. We just want to shift and tilt.

Just a constructive suggestion.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 02:20:37 PM by gwhitf » Logged
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009, 03:18:39 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
Mr. Grover,

You're a big boy and all, and I'm sure not telling you how to run your bidness, but Tony's illustration above makes my point, that the uses for Tilt are radically different from the uses for Shift.

A Shifty Guy might never need to tilt, and a Tilty Guy might only be looking for increased depth of field. Two completely different uses; two completely different kinds of photographers. Having that HTS unit do both Tilt and Shift is like Black & Decker coming out with a Cuisinart that also has a Welding Attachment.

Tilty is for Still Life, and Shifty is for the Landscape and Advertising Guys, who need to delivery massive files, and plenty of bleed.

I propose the Hasselblad HS, for $2495, (or $1995), that Shifts only.

The goal here is for a Regular Photographer to be able to buy one of those things for his own studio, instead of selling one each of those HTS to every Rental House in the world, and that be the end of it.

I know you want to stay in your Closed Universe, but face the fact that there are a zillion guys out there, using H1 or H2 bodies with Phase backs, that might want to buy this thing. We don't care about all the software fixes in Hocus Phocus. We just want to shift and tilt.

Just a constructive suggestion.

Dear Mr Whitford,

Fair enough.  

Do you think removing one axis would halve the cost of production?  Do you think having two different products would also make production cheaper?

Contrary to popular belief there are lots of *Regular Photographers* buying them for their studios, with orders continuing to come.  (More than the 8 originally suggested.   )

Would not shift (agreed not as much as tilt) be useful in the studio as well?

Once again, there is no problem with Phase / Leaf / Sinar systems using the HTS on an H1 or H2, so I am not sure I understand the last comment?  The last postee's shot was produced with a Phase One.

Tilty is for Still Life, and Shifty is for the Landscape and Advertising Guys, who need to delivery massive files, and plenty of bleed.

That's a helluva generalisation.  What about photographers who have a broad perspective of work?

David
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 03:19:48 PM by David Grover / Hasselblad » Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
PeterA
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123


« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2009, 05:16:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
Mr. Grover,

You're a big boy and all, and I'm sure not telling you how to run your bidness, but Tony's illustration above makes my point, that the uses for Tilt are radically different from the uses for Shift.

A Shifty Guy might never need to tilt, and a Tilty Guy might only be looking for increased depth of field. Two completely different uses; two completely different kinds of photographers. Having that HTS unit do both Tilt and Shift is like Black & Decker coming out with a Cuisinart that also has a Welding Attachment.

Tilty is for Still Life, and Shifty is for the Landscape and Advertising Guys, who need to delivery massive files, and plenty of bleed.

I propose the Hasselblad HS, for $2495, (or $1995), that Shifts only.

The goal here is for a Regular Photographer to be able to buy one of those things for his own studio, instead of selling one each of those HTS to every Rental House in the world, and that be the end of it.

I know you want to stay in your Closed Universe, but face the fact that there are a zillion guys out there, using H1 or H2 bodies with Phase backs, that might want to buy this thing. We don't care about all the software fixes in Hocus Phocus. We just want to shift and tilt.

Just a constructive suggestion.

David,

Keep smiling. I am sure on day Phase One will one day have a body and a set of leaf lenses and their own version of the HTS. In the meantime all you will hear is why doesn't my Phase One back work as well on the Hasselblad bodies as a Hasselblad back type whine.  If I were Hasselblad I wouldn't spend one second worrying about users who have piggy backed on the Hasselblad body and lens system whilst using someone else's back. The sheer arrogance of the notion that Hasselblad R&D should also incorporate what non Hasselblad patchwork quilt workflows may or may not need is of course totally ridiculous. I haven't made up my mind about the HTS - still it seems to be an excellent work around for both studio product and still life type work as well as certain landscape /architectural applications. Wether a dedicated view camera or a Sinar arTec may be a better choice for me as opposed to the HTS flexibility is my business and my concern- Hasselblad cant be expected to do all things for all people.   I suggest that Hasselblad continues along the closed system path and let the results speak for themselves.


Logged
PeterA
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123


« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2009, 05:16:38 PM »
ReplyReply

..
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 05:17:09 PM by PeterA » Logged
gwhitf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 818


« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2009, 07:41:52 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PeterA
Keep smiling. I am sure on day Phase One will one day have a body and a set of leaf lenses and their own version of the HTS.

In the meantime all you will hear is why doesn't my Phase One back work as well on the Hasselblad bodies as a Hasselblad back type whine.  If I were Hasselblad I wouldn't spend one second worrying about users who have piggy backed on the Hasselblad body and lens system whilst using someone else's back.

Mr Peter A,

Take a deep breath. I was just kidding around with H.S. Grover there.

And Phase One already has their version of the HTS. It sells for about $495 from Ukraine. (Oops, slight typo there -- it used to sell for $495; now it sells for three thousand since they scratched off the Hartblei logo, and glued on the Phase One logo).

And I don't hear any whine over here, about using the Phase back and their excellent software. I've yet to find one Digital Tech that knows and uses Phocus software in advertising jobs in New York. I'm sure they're out there, maybe a few in Los Angeles. But it does make you wonder -- all those Techs out there using Capture One, when there's money on the table and the pressure on, and almost a total shun of Phocus. It just tells you something. So no -- no regrets in going with the Phase solution.

Logged
David Grover / Phase One
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 951



WWW
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2009, 08:25:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
Mr Peter A,

Take a deep breath. I was just kidding around with H.S. Grover there.

And Phase One already has their version of the HTS. It sells for about $495 from Ukraine. (Oops, slight typo there -- it used to sell for $495; now it sells for three thousand since they scratched off the Hartblei logo, and glued on the Phase One logo).

And I don't hear any whine over here, about using the Phase back and their excellent software. I've yet to find one Digital Tech that knows and uses Phocus software in advertising jobs in New York. I'm sure they're out there, maybe a few in Los Angeles. But it does make you wonder -- all those Techs out there using Capture One, when there's money on the table and the pressure on, and almost a total shun of Phocus. It just tells you something. So no -- no regrets in going with the Phase solution.

All in good sport, Sir.

Not forgetting the other 194 countries in the world, different markets often aren't aware of, or use the 'Digital Tech' phenomenon.  So Just because NYC has a higher market penetration of Phase One products does not necessarily indicate the norm across the planet.

Oh, and thanks for mentioning the Hartblei.

David





Logged

David Grover
Business Support and Development Manager, Software.
csp
Guest
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2009, 10:21:01 AM »
ReplyReply

[quote name='David Grover / Hasselblad' date='Mar 29 2009, 01:25 PM' post='271745']
All in good sport, Sir.

Not forgetting the other 194 countries in the world, different markets often aren't aware of, or use the 'Digital Tech' phenomenon.  So Just because NYC has a higher market penetration of Phase One products does not necessarily indicate the norm across the planet.

Oh, and thanks for mentioning the Hartblei.

David
[/quote


how true,  the whole digital tech thing is not common in europe for example and it only tells that those guys try to make their life easy by using and understanding one software.  

Logged
PeterA
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123


« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2009, 04:55:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
Mr Peter A,

Take a deep breath. I was just kidding around with H.S. Grover there.

And Phase One already has their version of the HTS. It sells for about $495 from Ukraine. (Oops, slight typo there -- it used to sell for $495; now it sells for three thousand since they scratched off the Hartblei logo, and glued on the Phase One logo).

And I don't hear any whine over here, about using the Phase back and their excellent software. I've yet to find one Digital Tech that knows and uses Phocus software in advertising jobs in New York. I'm sure they're out there, maybe a few in Los Angeles. But it does make you wonder -- all those Techs out there using Capture One, when there's money on the table and the pressure on, and almost a total shun of Phocus. It just tells you something. So no -- no regrets in going with the Phase solution.

I am glad you were only joking.  I am glad that you are also happy with the $495 Hartblei or the hand selected better versions ..! -
Logged
gwhitf
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 818


« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2009, 05:07:20 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PeterA
I am glad you were only joking.  I am glad that you are also happy with the $495 Hartblei or the hand selected better versions ..! -

I was looking for some old stock photos to try to show the difference between the Vodka Hartblei, and the HTS Hasselblad unit. I found an old photo of Fred Sanford and his junker pickup truck to illustrate the Hartblei, and then tried to find a James Bond special-edition BMW to illustrate the HTS, but then I saw something shiny out the window, and got distracted. But you get my point.

That's why I don't fully understand Phase One getting so chummy with Mamiya -- it's like some Supermodel hitting on that Steve Forty-Year-Old-Virgin guy. Phase has such a sterling reputation, and then they choose Sammy The Schlub to go to the Ball with. Does not make sense, in terms of branding. But I guess when Sammy is the only girl left in the bar, you just do a couple of shots of Jack, grit your teeth, reach for the paper bag, straighten your collar, and then try out your best Pick Up line to get her in the car with you. The bar's about the close and there's no one else left in the room.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:14:00 PM by gwhitf » Logged
PeterA
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123


« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2009, 05:24:36 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
I was looking for some old stock photos to try to show the difference between the Vodka Hartblei, and the HTS Hasselblad unit. I found an old photo of Fred Sanford and his junker pickup truck to illustrate the Hartblei, and then tried to find a James Bond special-edition BMW to illustrate the HTS, but then I saw something shiny out the window, and got distracted. But you get my point.

That's why I don't fully understand Phase One getting so chummy with Mamiya -- it's like some Supermodel hitting on that Steve Thirty-Year-Old-Virgin guy. Phase has such a sterling reputation, and then they choose Sammy The Schlub to go to the Ball with. Does not make sense, in terms of branding. But I guess when Sammy is the only girl left in the bar, you just do a couple of shots of Jack, grit your teeth, reach for the paper bag, straighten your collar, and then try out your best Pick Up line to get her in the car with you. The bar's about the close and there's no one left in the room.

Simple story too many back makers...surviving on high margins paid for by a long running high growth economic era of unprecedented proportions. All manufacturers are boutique companies running on the smell of an oily rag competing against 35mm land where to be frank apart from niche areas - there is no competitive advantage in the tech. Pro photographers are the worst people to listen to regarding setting company strategy. Hasselblad is 'lucky' they actually committed resources to the Fujiblad line of lenses and bodies when they could afford to do so - compared to all the otheres - and I own and use all of them - it is by far the best line up of product. Of course not pefect.

Now economic outlook is changed and consolidation in the industry will be forced. We will be lucky to end up with three manufacturers in the end.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:26:13 PM by PeterA » Logged
hcubell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 729


WWW
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2009, 05:33:00 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gwhitf
I was looking for some old stock photos to try to show the difference between the Vodka Hartblei, and the HTS Hasselblad unit. I found an old photo of Fred Sanford and his junker pickup truck to illustrate the Hartblei, and then tried to find a James Bond special-edition BMW to illustrate the HTS, but then I saw something shiny out the window, and got distracted. But you get my point.

That's why I don't fully understand Phase One getting so chummy with Mamiya -- it's like some Supermodel hitting on that Steve Forty-Year-Old-Virgin guy. Phase has such a sterling reputation, and then they choose Sammy The Schlub to go to the Ball with. Does not make sense, in terms of branding. But I guess when Sammy is the only girl left in the bar, you just do a couple of shots of Jack, grit your teeth, reach for the paper bag, straighten your collar, and then try out your best Pick Up line to get her in the car with you. The bar's about the close and there's no one else left in the room.

Mark Tucker would love this.
Logged

imagetone
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51


WWW
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2009, 05:29:31 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: PeterA
If I were Hasselblad I wouldn't spend one second worrying about users who have piggy backed on the Hasselblad body and lens system whilst using someone else's back. The sheer arrogance of the notion that Hasselblad R&D should also incorporate what non Hasselblad patchwork quilt workflows may or may not need is of course totally ridiculous. I

I don't want to get too distracted from the "how good/useful is it?" theme but don't forget that many people bought into the H system when Hasselblad was marketing it as an open digital platform for backs including Phase One and we are now stuck with a foot in each of two different camps. So talk of "piggy backing" is a bit inaccurate in my book.

Tony
Logged

eleanorbrown
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 612


WWW
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2009, 12:35:36 PM »
ReplyReply

I am one of those described below and I'm not piggy backing on any camera system.  I've been a very long time Hasselblad user, loved my 503CS and the Hassy Flex Body.  When I shifted to digital I bought the Phase one P25, then 45, then 45+ along with the excellent Hasselblad H2 system and lenses.  I am stuck in each camp loyal to both companies and their products and at the mercy of corporate decisions.  I turned down the chance to sell my Hasselblad system to opt for the new Phase One system of camera and lenses.  So I love my Phase back along with my H2 system and remain (happily) stuck with both companies as long as my discontinued H2 and a back up H2 body lasts.  Such is the life. Eleanor


Quote from: imagetone
many people bought into the H system when Hasselblad was marketing it as an open digital platform for backs including Phase One and we are now stuck with a foot in each of two different camps. So talk of "piggy backing" is a bit inaccurate in my book.

Tony
Logged

Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2359


« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2009, 02:28:27 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: imagetone
As a new member I should introduce myself, I shoot a range of commercial subjects, based in Leeds, England.

I hired the HTS adapter for a couple of days to test with my H1 and a couple of Phase backs (P25+, P45+). I was interested mainly in how useful it was in the studio so didn't really test shifts with architectural and interior subjects.  I'm not sure how useful the 35mm lens is in this context given the adapter magnifies 1.5x.  

The adapter worked fine once the H1 was upgraded to the latest firmware and I was able to confirm it was useable for me with the 80mm including with extension tubes, although this restricts the useable image circle. The limitations I found were that the maximum tilt was not suffiicient to get the plane of focus laid flat when shooting close in and obviously the shift and tilt can't be at 90 deg. to each other.

The images processed fine in C1 4.6.3 with a lens cast correction. Attached is a quick test of a (worn and dusty) watch with the P25+,  80mm plus extension, f16, tilt with rotation, soft look sharpening in C1. Quick and dirty removal of  a reflector in PS, plus curves tweak.

Tony May
www.tonymayimages.com

[attachment=12547:Tilt_6291.jpg]

Tony,

Welcome! How much tilt did you need to get this? Am I looking at downsized image or a crop? I am trying to figure out to what extend the HTS could replace use of my X-act2. I just noticed I probably missed your post but Eleanors post kicked the thread right up
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 02:31:04 PM by Dustbak » Logged
Nick_T
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2009, 03:14:50 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Dustbak
Tony,

Welcome! How much tilt did you need to get this? Am I looking at downsized image or a crop? I am trying to figure out to what extend the HTS could replace use of my X-act2. I just noticed I probably missed your post but Eleanors post kicked the thread right up
Hi Ray
I have my HTS finally and am loving it, seems like every shot needs it now. What did you want to know?
Nick-T
Logged

Dustbak
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2359


« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2009, 03:29:29 PM »
ReplyReply

I would like to know whether I can sell my X-act2 or put it into the moth balls  

I love using the X-act but in many cases it is simply a bit of overkill where I just need that bit of tilt. I assume there is enough tilt available to extend DoF to get larger items from a bit more distance into adequate focus (stuff up to tables and such). I wonder if there is enough tilt to get it for smaller items as well. Would the HTS be sufficient to get most of a stack of rings in focus?

Is the focus plane easy enough to see and follow?

If the HTS is much easier in use, I will definitely only use the X-act in cases where I want to toy around or when someone wants something special and doesn' mind paying for it

I am afraid I can already feel the pain in my wallet. (please don't get me excited about the new zoom too or start mentioning a CF60MS ).
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 03:30:44 PM by Dustbak » Logged
Nick_T
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 88


« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2009, 03:38:37 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Dustbak
I would like to know whether I can sell my X-act2 or put it into the moth balls  

I love using the X-act but in many cases it is simply a bit of overkill where I just need that bit of tilt. I assume there is enough tilt available to extend DoF to get larger items from a bit more distance into adequate focus (stuff up to tables and such). I wonder if there is enough tilt to get it for smaller items as well. Would the HTS be sufficient to get most of a stack of rings in focus?

Is the focus plane easy enough to see and follow?

If the HTS is much easier in use, I will definitely only use the X-act in cases where I want to toy around or when someone wants something special and doesn' mind paying for it

I am afraid I can already feel the pain in my wallet. (please don't get me excited about the new zoom too or start mentioning a CF60MS ).

Well the X-act is a lovely piece of kit.. Do you need rear movements? Are you ok with tilt and shift being in the same plane?
I've got some jewellery to do this week so I'll be better able to answer the ring question. So far there is plenty enough tilt for me but I'm still finding my way with it. I find it pretty easy to use and focus with the viewfinder. The distortion corrections are amazing (I know I go on about them) but I did a test with a big tilt/shift shooting a grid and it snapped right back in, get a demo! Oh and wait 'til you see the screen on the 60

Nick-T
Logged

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad