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Author Topic: Hasselblad HTS - anyone get to test the final production unit?  (Read 23216 times)
Dustbak
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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2009, 03:48:19 PM »
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sssttttt.....

I like using rear movements over front movement anytime but I think I can learn to live with using them less. In many cases I only need tilt or shift but when I have to do front movement I will use shift as well especially in the same plane to get my items back into my finder

Please, let me know about the jewelry shoot. This is typically the kind of thing that I had in mind.
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imagetone
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« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2009, 10:56:34 AM »
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Quote from: Dustbak
How much tilt did you need to get this? Am I looking at downsized image or a crop?

Hi

From memory and a few notes, I think this used the maximum tilt of around 10 degrees and the HTS unit was rotated a little. Its a crop of about 60% height and 90% width of the full frame.  It was shot at f16 on an 80mm lens with a 26mm (I think) extension tube. Although I didn't have it very long and I don't consider myself an expert user of movements, I seemed to run out of tilt at close focusing distances with subjects laid horizontal - hence f16 rather than any larger aperture.

Hope this helps
Tony

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eleanorbrown
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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
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Nick, what lenses are you using with your HTS...anything besides the 28?  Have you done any serious pixel peeping comparing a shot done with and without the HTS to see what the compromises are at say 100%?  /Thanks, eleanor

Quote from: Nick_T
Hi Ray
I have my HTS finally and am loving it, seems like every shot needs it now. What did you want to know?
Nick-T
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Nick_T
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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2009, 02:43:34 PM »
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Quote from: eleanorbrown
Nick, what lenses are you using with your HTS...anything besides the 28?  Have you done any serious pixel peeping comparing a shot done with and without the HTS to see what the compromises are at say 100%?  /Thanks, eleanor

Hi Eleanor I'm mostly using it in studio with the 80MM at the moment. And no I'm not a hard core pixel peeper, so far results look fine, I'll see if I can find the time to do some before and afters.
Nick-T
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2009, 08:55:14 AM »
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I've been patiently waiting for someone to address the question in my original post for this thread:
"DOF capabilities for landscape work?"

I shoot landscape - used to shoot 4x5 and made extensive use of Tilt to increase my DOF far beyond just stopping down.
The Tilt feature of the 4x5, along with an occasional use of Rise, is what I'm trying to replicate in the digital world.

I was hoping the HTS would allow me to make use of the expensive lenses I have for my H3DII-39, rather than going the Arca Rm3D route requiring a whole new investment in lenses, let alone having to remove my digital back from the H3DII body.

Thus, back to the original question - anyone use the HTS in Landscape shots to increase DOF successfully?

Jack
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2009, 01:43:16 AM »
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Quote from: Lust4Life
I've been patiently waiting for someone to address the question in my original post for this thread:
"DOF capabilities for landscape work?"

I shoot landscape - used to shoot 4x5 and made extensive use of Tilt to increase my DOF far beyond just stopping down.
The Tilt feature of the 4x5, along with an occasional use of Rise, is what I'm trying to replicate in the digital world.

I was hoping the HTS would allow me to make use of the expensive lenses I have for my H3DII-39, rather than going the Arca Rm3D route requiring a whole new investment in lenses, let alone having to remove my digital back from the H3DII body.

Thus, back to the original question - anyone use the HTS in Landscape shots to increase DOF successfully?

Jack

Hi Jack,

A few degrees tilt can make a lot of difference but it does depend hugely on the kind of DOF increase you are after.  Yes, you could manipulate the DOF to essentially increase it front to back. but at the risk of losing focus if you had any objects at infinity at the top of the frame. (ie tall trees maybe?)

Really the only way to satisfy your needs is to get hold of an HTS for a few days and see if it works in the field for you.

David


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David Grover
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gwhitf
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« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2009, 08:51:52 AM »
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Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Really the only way to satisfy your needs is to get hold of an HTS for a few days and see if it works in the field for you.

Mr G:

Can you confirm this for me?

I use an H2 with Phase back. So that means, the widest lens I can use is the 35mm? Not the 28?

So if I stick on a 35, and then mount the HTS with 1.5, then that means that my widest lens then is about a 50mm, (which is a 35 multiplied times 1.5)?

And, I lose autofocus with the HTS? Is there focus confirmation light or anything in the viewfinder, when using the HTS, even with autofocus disabled?

Do you see it that way?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 09:09:00 AM by gwhitf » Logged
eleanorbrown
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« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2009, 09:34:41 AM »
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I use the HTS with my H2 and P45+ back using 35,50,80, and 100 lenses).  Quality is excellent..I"m impressed.  Focus is another story and it takes a learning curve.  Viewfinder is dimmed and there is no focus confirmation.  You need good vision, eyepiece diopter set exactly and you will learn what kind of subject matter will be easiest to focus on.  Objects with some contrast are best and if so, it is possible to focus in somewhat dim light.  I have some sample images on the dpi forum that I uploaded.  (am I allowed to mention another forum here??) Eleanor

Quote from: gwhitf
Mr G:

Can you confirm this for me?

I use an H2 with Phase back. So that means, the widest lens I can use is the 35mm? Not the 28?

So if I stick on a 35, and then mount the HTS with 1.5, then that means that my widest lens then is about a 50mm, (which is a 35 multiplied times 1.5)?

And, I lose autofocus with the HTS? Is there focus confirmation light or anything in the viewfinder, when using the HTS, even with autofocus disabled?

Do you see it that way?

Thanks.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2009, 11:22:41 AM »
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Quote from: eleanorbrown
I use the HTS with my H2 and P45+ back using 35,50,80, and 100 lenses).  Quality is excellent..I"m impressed.  Focus is another story and it takes a learning curve.  Viewfinder is dimmed and there is no focus confirmation.  You need good vision, eyepiece diopter set exactly and you will learn what kind of subject matter will be easiest to focus on.  Objects with some contrast are best and if so, it is possible to focus in somewhat dim light.  I have some sample images on the dpi forum that I uploaded.  (am I allowed to mention another forum here??) Eleanor

Thank you. The HTS is becoming less and less appealing, the more I learn about it. Especially at $5200.00.

Although for a still life guy in a studio, or an architectural guy shooting tethered, (using a complete Hassie system with the 28), it might be a good solution.
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rsmphoto
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« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2009, 02:40:09 PM »
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Quote from: GBPhoto
I looked at it for arch. work.  I was really interested in the auto distortion correction and tilt/shift info in metadata.

Until I saw that:
28 X 1.5 = 42mm ≠ wide angle
tilt/shift metadata is not present in non-Hasselblad backs
Hassy HTS @ $5k+
Alpa + wides @ $10k+
----------------------------------------
adds up to NO-GO for architecture


Conversely, after several months of constant use, the HTS works quite well for me and my style of shooting architecture. I use it consistently on every shoot and am glad to have it in my arsenal of tools. It has it's place.

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gwhitf
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« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2009, 03:45:55 PM »
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Quote from: rsmphoto
Conversely, after several months of constant use, the HTS works quite well for me and my style of shooting architecture. I use it consistently on every shoot and am glad to have it in my arsenal of tools. It has it's place.

I wondered, "Maybe with the HTS, you orient the body into Vertical, to get more coverage, and then pan left and right, and stitch"? If you're limited to the 35 (or 28) lens. But I'd hate the think that every frame I shot, I had to stitch later.
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tho_mas
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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2009, 04:48:41 PM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
But I'd hate the think that every frame I shot, I had to stitch later.
That's the nice thing about a tech camera - you see the entire image as a whole on the groundglass (or roughly in a finder) and then just shoot it in two pieces. Photoshops merger will stitch the two pieces very well. Have a coffee while Photoshop is doing it...
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2009, 10:48:15 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
But I'd hate the think that every frame I shot, I had to stitch later.
Large file do slow down even the fastest computers - do we have to invent a workflow that allows us to do each stage of the process on a different computer, on a giganet?

I suppose it would be easy to do raw on one computer, and PS on another... does anyone do that?
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Cartman
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« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2009, 06:10:49 AM »
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The answer always seems to be: spend more money -- and you'll still have to compromise or buy yet another system for a particular purpose.

Anyway, I have been keenly interested in the HTS for jewelry and gems for paying projects.

For personal use, I would love to use it for landscapes, but with the 1.5 factor that pretty much means I'll be stitching.

I would likely never use the shift, and only want the tilt for DOF flexibility.

I'm left a little frustrated that nothing is ever just the way one would want it.

Nikon has three new PC-E lenses that are purportedly quite good.  That sounds great for using tilt on landscapes, but I would rather not fuss with stitching unless I need a really large file so when I heard about the HTS I thought "this is great, at a time when so many are moving away from MF, I have a reason to go towards it."

But then the reality is that the HTS adds a 1.5 cropping factor to focal length -- which means your wide lenses won't be wide anymore.  

Am I alone in thinking, well, if I'm going to be stitching anyway why not save the $30,000.00 and just do it with my Nikon?

Admittedly, I don't even know if it is possible, but since the HTS is actually a lens rather than just a mechanical device between lens and back, and has something like six elements, why not have the optical geniuses figure out a way to eliminate the cropping factor?  Or is that a necessary evil to make the image circle large enough to keep the sensor covered whilst engaging the movements?  I'm sure that it, but can't a guy dream?

And I understand that the economies of scale are small for this product and you want to charge $5K a pop to recoup your R&D expenses, but I'm sure you would sell many more if you split the shift and tilt and cut the price in half.  Sure, some shooters may need both, but if they need both they can buy both and still be at the same outlay in costs, but for those of us who only need one or the other, you'll likely rope us in instead of relegating this to the rental market.  Surely you'll make more money selling them to more than just the rental market and a few high-end commercial shooters?  Alas, I'm sure the cost is in the optics so it will never happen.  Pity.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2009, 06:47:22 AM by Cartman » Logged
Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2009, 08:42:40 AM »
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Quote from: Cartman
For personal use, I would love to use it for landscapes, but with the 1.5 factor that pretty much means I'll be stitching.

I would likely never use the shift, and only want the tilt for DOF flexibility.
If you were going to stitch, shift enables you to "shift-and-stitch" instead of "pan-and-stitch" (if you have the spare image circle), so you lose no pixels through cropping after correcting the perspective, and you lose no res through distortion. You may want to shift in one direction and tilt in the other.

You might be able to use the HTS to shift-and-stitch and end up with the same image angle of view (as with the prime lens), but with more pixels.
Quote
I'm left a little frustrated that nothing is ever just the way one would want it.

Admittedly, I don't even know if it is possible, but since the HTS is actually a lens rather than just a mechanical device between lens and back, and has something like six elements, why not have the optical geniuses figure out a way to eliminate the cropping factor?

Or is that a necessary evil to make the image circle large enough to keep the sensor covered whilst engaging the movements?  I'm sure that it, but can't a guy dream?
Yes, the "optical genii" that designed the lenses did not give the lenses enough image circle to allow for movements. presumable the HTS "lens angle of view" is the same, and the larger image circle results in a cropping factor. For macro this is not a problem, as image circle increases with extension.
Quote
Surely you'll make more money selling them to more than just the rental market and a few high-end commercial shooters?
The Digital Hasselblads are view-camera compatible (and would be more so if they enabled live view on the HD311-50), and you could theoretically hire a view camera and lenses to use with your Hasselblad DCU... but most people who go to the trouble of learning how to use a Medium Format Digital View Camera (MFDVC) would want one available all the time.

Most of the Hasselblad roll film lenses had more spare image circle, but not the wide angles that one would often use for architecture.

Hasselblad consequently made 2 view cameras for the V system.
Correction - I had said camera adaptors, but these are cameras: you put the film back on one end and the lens on the other.
 
One Camera the Arcbody is for architecture, for which you had to buy special lenses, and the other is the Flexbody, which you used with your normal V-system lenses.

I have a Flexbody and it works very well with the Macro-Planar 120 for product work. The Macro-Planar 120 is optimized for 1:1 to infinity, so it would not be ideal for jewelry.  

I have a Sinar P3 and a Schneider Apo-digitar Macro 120, which is optimized for 3:1 to 1:3 or thereabouts, and a set of Zeiss Luminar lenses which can go up to 25:1 magnification.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 05:21:52 AM by Dick Roadnight » Logged

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Cartman
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« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2009, 11:10:22 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
If you were going to stitch, shift enables you to "shift-and-stitch" instead of "pan-and-stitch" (if you have the spare image circle), so you lose no pixels through cropping after correcting the perspective, and you lose no res through distortion. You may want to shift in one direction and tilt in the other.

You might be able to use the HTS to shift-and-stitch and end up with the same image angle of view (as with the prime lens), but with more pixels.
Yes, the "optical genii" that designed the lenses did not give the lenses enough image circle to allow for movements. presumable the HTS "lens angle of view" is the same, and the larger image circle results in a cropping factor. For macro this is not a problem, as image circle increases with extension.

The Digital Hasselblads are view-camera compatible (and would be more so if they enabled live view on the HD311-50), and you could theoretically hire a view camera and lenses to use with your Hasselblad DCU... but most people who go to the trouble of learning how to use a Medium Format Digital View Camera (MFDVC) would want one available all the time.

Most of the Hasselblad roll film lenses had more spare image circle, but not the wide angles that one would often use for architecture.

Hasselblad consequently made 2 view camera adaptors for the V system, one for architecture (the Arcbody), for which you had to buy special lenses, and the Flexbody, which you used with your normal V-system lenses.

I have a Flexbody and it works very well with the Macro-Planar 120 for product work. The Macro-Planar 120 is optimized for 1:1 to infinity, so it would not be ideal for jewelry.  

I have a Sinar P3 and a Schneider Apo-digitar Macro 120, which is optimized for 3:1 to 1:3 or thereabouts, and a set of Zeiss Luminar lenses which can go up to 25:1 magnification.

Great info Mr. Roadnight, and some good ideas I had not thought about due to lack of experience with LF movements -- thank you.  However, I'm still left with the sentiment from my first line: "The answer always seems to be: spend more money -- and you'll still have to compromise or buy yet another system for a particular purpose" -- LOL!
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2009, 01:57:31 PM »
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Quote from: Cartman
Great info Mr. Roadnight, and some good ideas I had not thought about due to lack of experience with LF movements -- thank you.  However, I'm still left with the sentiment from my first line: "The answer always seems to be: spend more money -- and you'll still have to compromise or buy yet another system for a particular purpose" -- LOL!
I am sure there are professional photographers who only use one camera, some might only use one lens, but most of us think we need a range of tools to do a range of different jobs.
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