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Author Topic: Leaf Aptus 75 versus Nikon D3x  (Read 26797 times)
Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2009, 12:26:56 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Very true. There is DR, colour, larger viewfinders, leaf shutters, lack of AA filter, lenses, and ability to use back on view camera to consider (and I probably forgot something  ):

 I totally agree and did not even mention all this stuff which to me is the big difference between the systems. The DSLR's are great for there intended usage but all of it hit the image limit compared to MF. I'm sure many will disagree but I tried a lot of systems and I certainly see the difference.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 12:27:31 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

Morgan_Moore
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2009, 12:54:17 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Very true. There is DR, colour, larger viewfinders, leaf shutters, lack of AA filter, lenses, and ability to use back on view camera to consider (and I probably forgot something  ):

you forgot the big advantage : you can keep the sensor clean

and 800th flash synch

IMO the handling of the nikon just wins 90% of the time over my blad

S
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Sam Morgan Moore Cornwall
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2009, 03:22:39 PM »
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Quote from: yaya
Simon any chance you can try to process the two files at the same output size? Both jpegs here are downscaled but the Aptus one is smaller? Best is if you can post the raw files, of course...

BR

Yair

Hi Yair,

Hope this is what you wanted.

Don’t get me wrong I still think the Leaf is a superior system. The Nikon D3x is going to fill certain aspects of my photography work.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2009, 03:26:09 PM »
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Quote from: yaya
Simon any chance you can try to process the two files at the same output size? Both jpegs here are downscaled but the Aptus one is smaller? Best is if you can post the raw files, of course...

BR

Yair

Hi Yair,

Hope this is what you wanted.

Don't get me wrong I still think the Leaf is a superior system. The Nikon D3x is going to fill certain aspects of my photography work.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 05:39:45 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
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Snook
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2009, 03:32:33 PM »
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Quote from: Morgan_Moore
you forgot the big advantage : you can keep the sensor clean

and 800th flash synch

IMO the handling of the nikon just wins 90% of the time over my blad

S

What you syncing at 800/th with?? the RZ is 400th only.

Snook

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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2009, 03:37:16 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
What you syncing at 800/th with?? the RZ is 400th only.

Snook

You actually quoted the answer to your own question
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2009, 03:55:45 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
You actually quoted the answer to your own question





foto-z Sorry I did not see the blad..
Thanks for pointing it out...:+}
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 04:20:55 PM by Snook » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2009, 04:15:27 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
Foto Z not sure what you mean.
The RZ syncs at 400th with Flash? And the other posted 800/th?

Could you be more specific with your comment that I answered my own question? Are trying to say it is impossible or were they referrring to the Sinar or Leaf camera?
Snook

You quoted the original poster as saying "IMO the handling of the nikon just wins 90% of the time over my blad". The H series syncs at 1/800.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 04:15:50 PM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2009, 06:27:09 PM »
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Maybe the D3x is "The" Medium format rumored by everyone hidden in a 35mm Body??? :+}
 
Snook
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Henry Goh
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2009, 08:07:22 PM »
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Quote from: HarperPhotos
Hi Yair,

Hope this is what you wanted.

Don't get me wrong I still think the Leaf is a superior system. The Nikon D3x is going to fill certain aspects of my photography work.

Cheers

Simon

Nice moire on the Leaf file..
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paratom
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2009, 02:35:32 AM »
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I think that the D3x is quite demanding regarding lenses. To show what the sensor can deliever one needs to use the best lenses.
I believe that a big part of the "softened" look which I thought was caused by the AA-filter might be limitations of the lens.
Without having done technical comparisons I also believe that the AA-filter of the D3x is indeed weaker than that of the D3 for example. I feel that besides the higher resolution of the D3x compared to a D3 the D3x therefore shows more "microdetail" and gets closer to MF-quality.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 05:48:38 AM by paratom » Logged
Anders_HK
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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 08:27:46 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
Exactly why I don't shoot Nikon anymore. I hate there color but i do like there system. Myself I look at the DSLR's for PR work anymore. But that is just me.

Guy,

It is not only you. Some have sensitive eyes, others do not. In the end it is the photos that counts, and MFDB clear lends an upper hand to those who have the eyes.

Sure, Nikon and Canon have improved, by big steps. Yet... above files appear clear, if at all one has the eye. Else just go with a DSLR and be happy!

Yup, people are pixel peeping. Even anxious trying prove DSLR same as MFDB, which it is not. Why should it???  

Then... what does DSLR vs MFDB do for your photos? MFDB lends to slower and more planned photos (even more if you use manual and spot meter, that is fun!), and there is less auto features than DSLR, slower focus that need more planning... ehh... sort of more photographic to folks like me   (but we are all different) . I was a Nikon guy before, but Nikon lost me in digital with all auto features and lack of color etc. They are still not up to as pleasing colors of my Aptus 65. Does it matter? Lets face that it seems though that digital has finally reached a level that also DSLRs can have reasonable pleasing color rendering (with suffice processing), although for a critical eye not yet as pleasing as film was. Ok, that is my impression. Leaf Aptus though already have pleasing colors to my eye, far more than Nikon, and pleasing sort of FILM LIKE appearance, but... it is digital... not film clearly, not look like film   .

Anyways... just some comments to all...

Yair, What about next quantom leap for Leaf? Any thoughts on a real full frame 645 sensor with Foveon like technology? Now that could be something for an amateur like me to upgrade to... if give it a some years and continued $$ coming in, and if still pleasing rendering that Leaf is known for... but not higher resolution than I also can use my good Mamiya lenses that were for film... Thanks!  

Anders
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rethmeier
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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 04:28:42 PM »
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Anders,
I'm glad you have special eyes,however you are also an amateur that doesn't need to make money from his images.
When I compare the initial 2 images posted , I agree that the skin tone is more pink with the D3x.
Did you ever think that this could be more the true color of that persons skin?
I know which file I like to work on and that's not the moire(aptus) one.

To fix the skin tone would be a lot easier than the moire one.

A couple of years ago,loads of shooters had issues with the skin tones that the Canon 1DsMkII produced.

Anyway,all these comparisons between MFDB and DSLR are useless,especially the way they are done.


Still I have no regrets leaving my MFDB behind and yes I don't need fast sync speed etc.

Regarding the viewfinder,the D3x one is very good and lets not forget that 3inch screen on the back!

Best,

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Willem Rethmeier
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shelby_lewis
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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2009, 05:31:10 PM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
A couple of years ago,loads of shooters had issues with the skin tones that the Canon 1DsMkII produced

Still fighting with them (and dislike nikon's even more).

But... touché on the LCD screen and Moiré. TOTALLY agree. Why a $15K back can't be designed to house a big honkin' screen continues to elude me.

One thing, and this may or not be applicable to your comments, William... but the Aptus file has a noticeable "roundness" to the human features that the d3x lacks. In the working world, I'd bet this is something that just doesn't matter that much... but I still get the impression that the d3x file has a flatness/lack of dimensionality that I associate and continue to dislike about 35mm (and I shoot 35mm exclusively right now). That... and the d3x file has a "sharpened" appearance, as opposed to a natural sharpness. Look back 5 years ago, however, and they're both fantastic.

All these things have to be taken according to ones intentions and professional requirements.... so in the end these arguments are personal.

Me... I'll actually take the dimensionality, color, and natural sharpness (and the moiré!) over the 35mm IQ. But that's just me (and therefore not applicable to anyone here!).
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shelby_lewis
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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 05:38:10 PM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
When I compare the initial 2 images posted , I agree that the skin tone is more pink with the D3x.
Did you ever think that this could be more the true color of that persons skin?

I'll bite.

As someone who shot various nikon bodies at weddings (as a test)... in the field... for half a season last year I can attest that skin (in my humble perceptions!) is something that Nikon doesn't do well. Canon has it's probs too (reds), but I found that under just about any condition that skin was a problem for nikon. Jeff Ascough, one of the most noted wedding photogs in the world, has similar conclusions. From what I can tell... he WANTED nikon to work well for him as the d3/d700 are such great wedding cams (my observations, not his words), but couldn't get skin tones that were pleasing on a regular basis without considerable post work.

YMMV.

The aptus, whether accurate or not... which will be difficult for any of us to ascertain online... certainly appears more pleasing, less flushed, to me.
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TMARK
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2009, 06:06:01 PM »
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Are people really quibling over skin tones?  You do know you can shoot RAW and roll your own color, right?  I never had problems with Canon 1ds2 skin because I fixed everything in the raw converter or in post.  Its really simple to set up a preset that suits your taste in skin.  Use Color editor in C1 or Light Room.  


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sdai
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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2009, 06:48:35 PM »
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CS4 is neither the best for D3x nor for Leaf files imho, I suspect that if you rerun the two files through C1 or NX2 (for D3x) and LC11 (for a75), skin tone or moire will all become no issues.
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HarperPhotos
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2009, 07:42:29 PM »
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Quote from: sdai
CS4 is neither the best for D3x nor for Leaf files imho, I suspect that if you rerun the two files through C1 or NX2 (for D3x) and LC11 (for a75), skin tone or moire will all become no issues.

Gidday,

I have processed the Leaf Raw file in Leaf Capture 11. I don’t have Nikon NX2 soft wear yet.

When it comes to Moiré I don’t have time nor my clients to sit at my Mac having to mask different parts of the image to remove moiré.

I did a fashion shot last week where I took over 300 images.

Even with a Caprock Moiré filter on the Leaf I was still getting colour moiré.

I can tell you now its not a good look when your client is say what's that funning looking colours on my garments.

Hence why I am look a the Nikon D3x and there are some other reasons as well.

Cheers

Simon
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 07:43:02 PM by HarperPhotos » Logged

Simon Harper
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Snook
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2009, 09:13:39 PM »
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I do not beleive the color BS because most files are tweaked through raw and then in photoshop.
Atleast in my line of work.

One thing I have HATED since moving to MFD is the MOIRE. what a pain in the ass.
The only real way to get rid of some of it is processing 2 files which is a pain and many times the pattern is still there.. UFFFFFFF.
Snook
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shelby_lewis
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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2009, 10:48:04 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
I do not beleive the color BS....

and subtlety is obviously your forté, eric.

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