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Author Topic: New Hartblei Digital Tilt Shift lenses - with Zeiss optics  (Read 23830 times)
carstenw
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2009, 11:25:28 AM »
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Quote from: BJNY
We're discussing the Zeiss formulas in 40mm, 80mm, and 120mm focal lengths

while the only tilt shift lens fitting the Phamiya is the 45mm.

Ah, I thought the only prototypes available were the Hartblei 45 replacements? Were the Zeiss versions also available as prototypes?
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mtomalty
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2009, 11:41:09 AM »
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Quote from: carstenw
Ah, I thought the only prototypes available were the Hartblei 45 replacements? Were the Zeiss versions also available as prototypes?

Carsten,

On the previous version of the Hartblei website the 3 Zeiss-glassed lenses (40,80,and 120) were being
offered for sale as 'prptotypes'.
Whether they were,in fact,were prototypes or whether it was a language translation issue I can't say.

The current link below to the 120mm still calls it a prototype if you look in the image caption text at the bottom right of the photograph


http://hartblei.de/en/sr120m.htm



Mark
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markowich
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2009, 11:45:16 AM »
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i tried the hartbleis (40mm, 80mm and 120mm) with nikon F mount last weekend. mechanically they are
very nice, much better than the new nikon PCE lenses. tilt and shift is completely independent. optically,
i was not really impressed by the (very expensive) 40mm lens. it has a lot of distorsion, is pretty soft
(with shift) and all in all not really superior (optically) to the nikon 40mm PCE. the hartblei 80 and 120mm
are in a different class, much better optics then their 40mm 'brother'.
peter


Quote from: BJNY
We're discussing the Zeiss formulas in 40mm, 80mm, and 120mm focal lengths

while the only tilt shift lens fitting the Phamiya is the 45mm.
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BJNY
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2009, 12:06:26 PM »
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Thank you, Peter.
Great to hear from a end-user.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2009, 12:59:22 PM »
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How much movement can you achieve with the HTS then? Surely for what it costs you'd be better off getting a view camera with proper full movements and a really nice Rodenstock or Schneider lens.  I've been rather underwhelmed by the samples I've seen on this forum from the HTS and attached lenses. There is a limit to what the software will correct when a lens reaches it limits.

Pete
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David Grover / Phase One
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2009, 01:32:57 PM »
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Quote from: Streetshooter
How much movement can you achieve with the HTS then? Surely for what it costs you'd be better off getting a view camera with proper full movements and a really nice Rodenstock or Schneider lens.  I've been rather underwhelmed by the samples I've seen on this forum from the HTS and attached lenses. There is a limit to what the software will correct when a lens reaches it limits.

Pete

18mm shift - half the height of a 39MP sensor.  10° Tilt. 90° Rotation.

I would suggest testing it yourself and have the chance to be overwhelmed.


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David Grover
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2009, 01:49:26 PM »
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Quote from: markowich
optically,
i was not really impressed by the (very expensive) 40mm lens. it has a lot of distorsion, is pretty soft
(with shift) and all in all not really superior (optically) to the nikon 40mm PCE. the hartblei 80 and 120mm
are in a different class, much better optics then their 40mm 'brother'.
peter

That's probably when they need to think about software correction.  

Nice to meet you here again, Peter. Cheers!
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 03:02:57 PM »
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To all Users of this thread

I´m always amused if people quote things about what they think, before they even read what´s written.

On our website it´s clearly described what the lenses are: http://hartblei.de/en/sr40if.htm
" It was originally constructed for the 6 x 6 format, providing huge quality reserves for 35mm format."
and here: http://hartblei.de/en/tech2.htm
"Hartblei Superrotators are the only lenses for 35 mm cameras that have been originally constructed for
medium format cameras. Using a longer distance (at least 30 mm longer) between the sensor and the
glass of the lens allows for the unique 2x360 degrees turnable Shift and Tilt mechanism.
Also the angle is more straight by which the light hits the sensor, eleminating the effects mentioned before almost completely."

The Phase One lens has a pressrelease link here (and on our first page)  http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Ph...One-895724.html
Quote:"Phase One A/S today announced an exclusive strategic alliance with Hartblei to drive medium format photographic lens innovation.
The first product of this alliance is the Phase One 3.5/45 mm TS lens, based on the popular Hartblei 45 mm f/3.5 Super Rotator lens."

I fully understand that reading whole sentences is of course diffficult and Time consuming for some people..........  

We have been develloping these lenses  since 3 years now, first appearance of the prototypes was Photokina 2006.
They were on sale since March 2007 in a limited edition ( we had sold some of the first series to beta Customers before)
carrying the prototype label on request of Carl Zeiss, after a lot of Improvements and testing Zeiss has allowed us now to mark the lenses
HARTBLEI-Optics by Carl Zeiss.

The optical Quality is documented here http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embe...FE_104966_e.pdf
(we use the exact identical Lenskits originally assembled at Zeiss Oberkochen)
the MTF is documented up to Imagehight of 40mm resolving still over 90 LP/mm at F8 . The center resolution is up to 200 LP/mm.

Here is a clipout from the letter Mr. Markovich sent to me on the 26.03.09 :
"....das 40er probieren. erste beobachtung: f6.3, max shift (in alle  
richtungen) = super im zentrum aber randunschaerfe. ok, besser als das  
nikon PCE, aber doch nicht was ich mir erhofft hatte.comments ?"
I´ll try to translate:
"....try the 40mm.first observations:f6.3,max shift (in all directions)= Super in the center
but unsharper to border. ok better than the Nikon PCE, but not what I had hoped for. comments ?"

and here is my answer:
Hallo Herr Markowich
Das 40er hat speziell im Nahbereich (da weitwinkelkonstruktion) doch einiges an Astigmatismus und auch eine etwas wellige Bildfeldplanität.
Dies ist aber in der allgemeinen Fotografie nicht wirklich von Belang, für reine Reprozwecke sollte man aber mindestens bis f11 abblenden.
Wir haben letzte Woche erst einige neue MTF Messungen durchgeführt, dort haben wir im Zentrum bis zu 200LP/mm bei Kontrast 0,2 erreicht, der rand (höhe 30) geht dann auf etwas unter 100 runter(dies bei Blende 4), das ist nicht wirklich schlecht, natürlich immer noch keine Röntgenlithographie.........aber für Foto schon ganz nett.

translation:
Dear Mr. Markowich
The 40mm has especially on closeup (because of the wideangle construction) some Astigmatism and also some bumpy flatfield correction.
But for allpurpose Photography this is not really of matter, if you use it for pure Reproduction purposes you should use f11.
At our new MTF Measurements last week, we have got 200 lp/mm at a Contrast over 0,2, borders (at height 30) goes down to a bit under 100 (at f4), of course this is not XRay Lithography....but for Photography quite nice.

I can only invite anybody (at least in Europe ,sorry USA - if Importers want 65% from me I will prefer to sell them where WE can make a living, instead of financing someone elses Porsche)
to try the lenses themselves. We have set up a network of knowledgable dealers who will support this and answer your questions.
And help is on the way for the US also we are already talking to a good and reasonable Importer, so stay tuned  to our website.

BTW yesterday we have established our new service partner Wiese Fototechnik in Hamburg who will supply extremely good service Inside the EU and we do not have to send our lenses to Kiev for Maintenance anymore.

I hope I have not overstressed the part-sentence readers now too long.

greetings from Munich

Stefan Steib CEO Hartblei Kiev/Munich
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 03:14:57 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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carstenw
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« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2009, 03:59:24 PM »
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Quote from: Stefan.Steib
To all Users of this thread

Stefan, I do not aim to unfairly criticize, and I wish you the best of the luck with quality control and marketing of this lens, but you seem to sweep some very real concerns under the rug with a rather general statement about near and far focus, rather than dealing directly with what have been some highly questionable results. Here is a link to a thread, and to a specific post in this thread with one (temporary) user of this lens (the Phase One variant):

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4825

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php...amp;postcount=3

And here is a link to a strip from an image made with a P45+, vertically centered, from the left edge (he wrote right, by mistake) to about 1/3 towards the middle, which really shows how dramatically unsharp this lens got towards the center of the left edge, unshifted, untilted:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/attachment.p...mp;d=1231063918

If that was a one-off (well, two-off, another user, in Britain I believe, had the same experience) problem, then I am happy to hear that, but I would hope that you would understand that after seeing results like that, potential customers will want more than verbal reassurance, and samples from a single lens, before blindly ordering one. Hopefully you have some more meaningful way of convincing us that the results are really good, and that the price is worth it, Zeiss stamp of approval or not.
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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 04:08:09 PM »
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hi stefan,
yes, i reiterate the results of (my unscientific) tests. the hartblei 40mm just barely beats the nikon 40mm PCE
(slightly sharper in the center, rather disappointing in the edges)
but costs about 3 times as much and weighs (about) double. in fact, if i did scientifically correct tests, chances are that it gets
even downgraded. and i reiterate, the 80 and 120mm hartbleis are much better (unfortunately i have no experience with the
nikon PCE 80mm, so i cannot compare).
peter

Quote from: Stefan.Steib
To all Users of this thread

Here is a clipout from the letter Mr. Markovich sent to me on the 26.03.09 :
"....das 40er probieren. erste beobachtung: f6.3, max shift (in alle  
richtungen) = super im zentrum aber randunschaerfe. ok, besser als das  
nikon PCE, aber doch nicht was ich mir erhofft hatte.comments ?"
I´ll try to translate:
"....try the 40mm.first observations:f6.3,max shift (in all directions)= Super in the center
but unsharper to border. ok better than the Nikon PCE, but not what I had hoped for. comments ?"

and here is my answer:
Hallo Herr Markowich
Das 40er hat speziell im Nahbereich (da weitwinkelkonstruktion) doch einiges an Astigmatismus und auch eine etwas wellige Bildfeldplanität.
Dies ist aber in der allgemeinen Fotografie nicht wirklich von Belang, für reine Reprozwecke sollte man aber mindestens bis f11 abblenden.
Wir haben letzte Woche erst einige neue MTF Messungen durchgeführt, dort haben wir im Zentrum bis zu 200LP/mm bei Kontrast 0,2 erreicht, der rand (höhe 30) geht dann auf etwas unter 100 runter(dies bei Blende 4), das ist nicht wirklich schlecht, natürlich immer noch keine Röntgenlithographie.........aber für Foto schon ganz nett.

translation:
Dear Mr. Markowich
The 40mm has especially on closeup (because of the wideangle construction) some Astigmatism and also some bumpy flatfield correction.
But for allpurpose Photography this is not really of matter, if you use it for pure Reproduction purposes you should use f11.
At our new MTF Measurements last week, we have got 200 lp/mm at a Contrast over 0,2, borders (at height 30) goes down to a bit under 100 (at f4), of course this is not XRay Lithography....but for Photography quite nice.

I can only invite anybody (at least in Europe ,sorry USA - if Importers want 65% from me I will prefer to sell them where WE can make a living, instead of financing someone elses Porsche)
to try the lenses themselves. We have set up a network of knowledgable dealers who will support this and answer your questions.
And help is on the way for the US also we are already talking to a good and reasonable Importer, so stay tuned  to our website.

BTW yesterday we have established our new service partner Wiese Fototechnik in Hamburg who will supply extremely good service Inside the EU and we do not have to send our lenses to Kiev for Maintenance anymore.

I hope I have not overstressed the part-sentence readers now too long.

greetings from Munich

Stefan Steib CEO Hartblei Kiev/Munich
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Stefan.Steib
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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2009, 04:21:16 PM »
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Carsten

first of all: This is another lens. It is the Russian version 3,5/45mm , here we are speaking of the 4/40mmIF Zeiss Distagon and as I said before ,
everybody who reads whole sentences and even Numbers  and Names is probably blessed.

and maybe you should also quote Tashleys last post (this is the same guy who was shouting about how bad the 45TS was):

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5808  

He admits by himself that he probably did misfocus, and he is using an old version of the not improved  lens now he got somewhere......
So you still believe anything you read in the internet ?

I can only ask anybody to try it  and then talk about it.
Not the "I heard somebody said he knows somebody who didn ´t like it".....stuff

greetings from Munich
Stefan

Quote from: carstenw
Stefan, I do not aim to unfairly criticize, and I wish you the best of the luck with quality control and marketing of this lens, but you seem to sweep some very real concerns under the rug with a rather general statement about near and far focus, rather than dealing directly with what have been some highly questionable results. Here is a link to a thread, and to a specific post in this thread with one (temporary) user of this lens (the Phase One variant):

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4825

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php...amp;postcount=3

And here is a link to a strip from an image made with a P45+, vertically centered, from the left edge (he wrote right, by mistake) to about 1/3 towards the middle, which really shows how dramatically unsharp this lens got towards the center of the left edge, unshifted, untilted:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/attachment.p...mp;d=1231063918

If that was a one-off (well, two-off, another user, in Britain I believe, had the same experience) problem, then I am happy to hear that, but I would hope that you would understand that after seeing results like that, potential customers will want more than verbal reassurance, and samples from a single lens, before blindly ordering one. Hopefully you have some more meaningful way of convincing us that the results are really good, and that the price is worth it, Zeiss stamp of approval or not.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 04:21:56 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2009, 04:32:14 PM »
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Dear Mr. Markowich

I have used an MTF Measurement device for my numbers, this is probably as scientific as it can be.
A testtable is the wrong test for this lens. And all of these highend Bodies now offer LiveVideo zoomed focus.
It is simply very difficult to focus right with a highend lens and a highend(over 20mp) body.
For tests I use only a 15 kg Benbo MK5 , Novoflex heads, a TC80N release and Mirror up for my 5DII and all the best stuff I can get to
get sharp images, then I focus series with a focusing rail (Novoflex Castel Cross Q) and then I know I will get a nice and sharp one.
But this is no different to what was needed for an 8x10 " so I feel at home there.

If somebody does not believe this here is a link to a rawfile Canon 1 DsII shot with the Hartblei 4/40mmIF.

http://www.hartblei.eu/download/food.CR2

try to do this with another lens and then we talk.

greetings from Munich

Quote from: markowich
hi stefan,
yes, i reiterate the results of (my unscientific) tests. the hartblei 40mm just barely beats the nikon 40mm PCE
(slightly sharper in the center, rather disappointing in the edges)
but costs about 3 times as much and weighs (about) double. in fact, if i did scientifically correct tests, chances are that it gets
even downgraded. and i reiterate, the 80 and 120mm hartbleis are much better (unfortunately i have no experience with the
nikon PCE 80mm, so i cannot compare).
peter
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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2009, 04:48:44 PM »
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stefan,
i use D3x with -of course- live view, and yes, zooming in all the way to get the focus right. and mirror up, timer 10s and so on.
very sturdy tripod and so on (if it is sharp in the center, there is no problem, right?)
and again, i get what i described. after all, the nikon PCE 45mm does an admirable job in comparism to the three times more expensive and
double weight hartblei 40mm.
i do like your 80 and 120mm, though,
peter


Quote from: Stefan.Steib
Dear Mr. Markowich

I have used an MTF Measurement device for my numbers, this is probably as scientific as it can be.
A testtable is the wrong test for this lens. And all of these highend Bodies now offer LiveVideo zoomed focus.
It is simply very difficult to focus right with a highend lens and a highend(over 20mp) body.
For tests I use only a 15 kg Benbo MK5 , Novoflex heads, a TC80N release and Mirror up for my 5DII and all the best stuff I can get to
get sharp images, then I focus series with a focusing rail (Novoflex Castel Cross Q) and then I know I will get a nice and sharp one.
But this is no different to what was needed for an 8x10 " so I feel at home there.

If somebody does not believe this here is a link to a rawfile Canon 1 DsII shot with the Hartblei 4/40mmIF.

http://www.hartblei.eu/download/food.CR2

try to do this with another lens and then we talk.

greetings from Munich
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carstenw
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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 04:56:18 PM »
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Quote from: Stefan.Steib
Carsten

first of all: This is another lens. It is the Russian version 3,5/45mm , here we are speaking of the 4/40mmIF Zeiss Distagon

As I did mention, it is the Phase One version. I do not know enough about the business end of it all to know if this is significant in some way, but we are not talking about an original Hartblei (of which I own the 45/3.5 and it does better than the demonstrated results).

Quote
and maybe you should also quote Tashleys last post (this is the same guy who was shouting about how bad the 45TS was):

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5808  

He admits by himself that he probably did misfocus, and he is using an old version of the not improved  lens now he got somewhere......

So you still believe anything you read in the internet ?


No, absolutely not. In this case, I have known and conversed with Tim Ashley for a few years now, and I know how amazingly fair he is (to a fault), and how hard to tries to come up with plausible explanations for why things aren't working out, but the photo I posted a link to tells a story of its own: it is sharp nearer the center, and totally useless near the edges, and this is unshifted and untilted. Misfocus or not, the photo is taken square on, and shows a sharpness differential which it is not possible to fix with MTF and bad focus claims.

For all your statements about reading full sentences, you still seem to think that Tim was talking about a Ukranian Hartblei. The photo in question was the Phase One. He later bought an actual Hartblei, and is having a much better experience with it, like I am, and several others.

So, to summarize, I see what Tim has done, I am familiar with his thoroughness, and I believe him: the lens was a dud. I don't believe (or hope) that all copies will be that bad, but at least one other member had an identical experience. And I don't know what connection there is between the Zeiss 40/4 and the Phase One 45/3.5. Perhaps you can explain a bit more. There seems to be two Hartblei companies these days, which is very unfortunate.
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2009, 04:59:31 PM »
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Quote from: markowich
if it is sharp in the center, there is no problem, right?
peter

Dear Mr. Markovich

sorry but this is only partly true ! It depends of which distance we are speaking of.
As I tried to explain to you in my reply, the lens is a wideangle construction an thus not optimized for
flat field correction, showing a certain amount of astigmatism  at close focus.You can see this in the Zeiss data sheet on their MTFs.
So in reality if you want to get best sharpness for flatfield reproductions (which are for example used on the
ISO 12233 Test Chart performed MTF Measurements-eg Imatest) you need to defocus the center Like a ring backwards.
This changes from closeup to infinity where this is normal behaviour.
But didn´t you ever ask yourself why many of the new cameras have so heavy focusing problems ?
It´s not only because of sensor misjudgments, it is a very complex function of a) changing focal lenght b ) used aperture and resulting diffraction
and c) mechanical tolerances too ( I only say improper Bajonet mounts......)

greetings from Munich
Stefan Steib
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:12:52 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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carstenw
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« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2009, 05:01:24 PM »
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Quote from: Stefan.Steib
there.

If somebody does not believe this here is a link to a rawfile Canon 1 DsII shot with the Hartblei 4/40mmIF.

http://www.hartblei.eu/download/food.CR2

try to do this with another lens and then we talk.

With all due respect, one good sample is no more statistically valid than one bad sample. I hope you are not saying that what Peter Markowich is saying is a lie... It would be much more reassuring to hear your explanation for why Peter was getting the results he got, rather than you just pointing out that your lens, and by your implication, all Hartblei-Zeiss 40/4 T/S lenses, are much better than that. Either there is a problem with that one lens, or QC is not under sufficient control.

Peter, where is that lens now?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:23:07 PM by carstenw » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2009, 05:06:16 PM »
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Now I need to quote to my own post - again is it so difficult to read ?

The Phase One lens has a pressrelease link here (and on our first page) http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Ph...One-895724.html
Quote:"Phase One A/S today announced an exclusive strategic alliance with Hartblei to drive medium format photographic lens innovation.
The first product of this alliance is the Phase One 3.5/45 mm TS lens, based on the popular Hartblei 45 mm f/3.5 Super Rotator lens."


explanation: please read the pressrelease.

And no we are one Company and yes Tashley had the PhaseOne version for testing and now he has bought an old Hartblei version which he says is sometimes sharper than his schneider lenses.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2009, 05:09:12 PM »
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Please read my reply #35 to  Peter Markowich !

I did not say he lies...................

Quote from: carstenw
With all due respect, one good samples is no more statistically valid than one bad sample. I hope you are not saying that what Peter Markowich is saying is a lie... It would be much more reassuring to hear your explanation for why Peter was getting the results he got, rather than you just pointing out that your lens, and by your implication, all Hartblei-Zeiss 40/4 T/S lenses, are much better than that. Either there is a problem with that one lens, or QC is not under sufficient control.

Peter, where is that lens now?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:10:28 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2009, 05:32:15 PM »
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Quote from: Stefan.Steib
Please read my reply #35 to  Peter Markowich !

I did not say he lies...................

No, you are right. What you said was that the lens has astigmatism and bumpy flatfield correction, and you repeatedly encouraged people to try the lens themselves, yet that is exactly what Peter did, and his description of soft corners does not match your claim of 100 lppm, which should be more than enough.

In other words, and this is what I had hoped for all along, an explanation is needed for why Peter was seeing such results, not general claims about the excellence of the lens in your hands. Or possibly, if Peter still has his copy, you could simply swap the two lenses, he will happily use the sharp copy you possess, and you can examine the soft one he had in peace and quiet and try to determine if it is performing, and if not, why.

What is really not needed is that you on the one hand try to explain away his results with bad focus or being too close, and on the other hand try to claim the lens as excellent. I am not sure if you read this forum much, but a good percentage of the posts here, perhaps even more than half, are about the discrepancies between manufacturer or dealer claims and actual reality, and you simply cannot overcome such skepticism with claims of excellence, but only with actual demonstrations of this excellence.

Telling people to buy the lens and test for themselves is not effective when the one guy who has actually done so was not happy. You need to deal with this case.

Finally, if there is really only one Hartblei company, who are the people at http://www.hartblei.com/? If there is only one company, then it should be possible to retrieve this crucial URL.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 05:35:05 PM by carstenw » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2009, 05:57:11 PM »
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Carsten

again you should read closer: I wrote TRY not BUY - quote from my post

"I can only invite anybody (at least in Europe ,sorry USA - if Importers want 65% from me I will prefer to sell them where WE can make a living, instead of financing someone elses Porsche)
to try the lenses themselves. We have set up a network of knowledgable dealers who will support this and answer your questions."

second: I had this lens in my hand recently and tested it before I sent it to Vienna. it is still available there to rent or try it.
I don´t claim anything, I offer facts and solutions for everything that I said.

And I´m still waiting for the CEO´s of Nikon or Canon to talk to Internet Fora as I do. I know sometimes I shouldn´t, because it´s not easy, but I have done sysoping and support work  to several fora eg. Compuserve and AOL for Adobe (photoshop), Colormanagement and Apple/Aperture, so I still want to talk to my customers because it´s really important !

About Hartblei.com
Hartblei.com is unfortunately hold by Pissarenko a former partner of Hartblei.
We (Sergeji Naumenko and myself) have already asked him to give way and release the Hartblei.com. Unfortunately the website is hosted in Slovakia and though this is EU now, we are still in the process of getting a lawyer into it and do it by court (which unfortunately takes some time). Pissarenko does not have any Superrotators anymore, but as he is xxxed about this fact (as Sergeji and me  are doing the Zeiss an PhaseOne Business now) obviously tries to confuse people (which for many works quite good as you can see). None of the products he sells are real hartblei anymore ,not the shift adapter, not the tilt adapter, with the exception of some old stock. So Hartblei.com is complete scam now.
This is sad but the current situation.

greetings from Munich
Stefan

Quote from: carstenw
No, you are right. What you said was that the lens has astigmatism and bumpy flatfield correction, and you repeatedly encouraged people to try the lens themselves, yet that is exactly what Peter did, and his description of soft corners does not match your claim of 100 lppm, which should be more than enough.

In other words, and this is what I had hoped for all along, an explanation is needed for why Peter was seeing such results, not general claims about the excellence of the lens in your hands. Or possibly, if Peter still has his copy, you could simply swap the two lenses, he will happily use the sharp copy you possess, and you can examine the soft one he had in peace and quiet and try to determine if it is performing, and if not, why.

What is really not needed is that you on the one hand try to explain away his results with bad focus or being too close, and on the other hand try to claim the lens as excellent. I am not sure if you read this forum much, but a good percentage of the posts here, perhaps even more than half, are about the discrepancies between manufacturer or dealer claims and actual reality, and you simply cannot overcome such skepticism with claims of excellence, but only with actual demonstrations of this excellence.

Telling people to buy the lens and test for themselves is not effective when the one guy who has actually done so was not happy. You need to deal with this case.

Finally, if there is really only one Hartblei company, who are the people at http://www.hartblei.com/? If there is only one company, then it should be possible to retrieve this crucial URL.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 06:01:57 PM by Stefan.Steib » Logged

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