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Author Topic: Capture One 4.7 released  (Read 55945 times)
clawery
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« on: April 02, 2009, 08:53:44 AM »
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Phase One just released Capture One 4.7 today. There are some much anticipated improvements with the new release. Here is a quick list of some of the additions to the new version:

1. Added tethered support (Pro version) for Canon 5D Mk II and Nikon D3X
2. Newly designed file format - (.eip new file extension) allows packaging of Phase One files along with adjustments settings applied to the RAW (with no changes to the original RAW).
3. Support for JPEG and Tiff flies as 'Input' files - v4.7 will allow you to adjust JPEG and TIFFs similar to RAWs.

You can download v4.7 from Phase One's web site:

http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Downloads/CO4.aspx

Chris Lawery (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:59:01 AM by clawery » Logged
Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 08:57:27 AM »
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Quote from: clawery
2. Newly designed file format - (.eip new file extension) allows packaging of Phase One files along with adjustments settings applied to the RAW (with no changes to the original RAW).

So what the heck is EIP? Glad you asked. I wrote a primer up this morning: http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/04/...he-heck-is-eip/

By the way, before anyone complains:
 - it is OPTIONAL
 - it is off by default
 - it is based on the ZIP compression standard; it can be converted to a normal raw file without additional software

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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tho_mas
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 09:13:58 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
it is based on the ZIP compression standard; it can be converted to a normal raw file without additional software
that's a very good thing!
but the raw-files are renamed. after extracting the "eip" the raw file is named "0.TIF"...

numeric adjustments with arrow keys is also very nice to have now on mac as well.


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gwhitf
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 09:19:00 AM »
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Doug,

With all due respect, any software that's designed to make it easier for photographers to just hand off their RAW files to a client is NOT in the best interest of commercial photography.

Not only does the photographer shirk responsiblity in processing their own files, it also sends another tiny message of subliminal erosion of copyright, (at least in my opinion). It begins to treat the RAW files as a commodity.

There is something valuable in the photographer guarding and being responsible for his own files.

The only comparison I can think of in the old days, (film days), would be for the photographer to not add any CC over the lens, to correct the chrome film, and never bother to do Clip Tests to make sure the film was run properly, but just to hand over the film to the lab and say, "Fuck it, just run it all Normal; the client will retouch what isn't right".

This is just one bit of feedback, in regard to your sentence: "Many photographers are being asked to deliver their clients RAW files. This presents a difficulty because the photographer wants to deliver a file with appropriate adjustments such as color temperature, contrast, saturation, and highlight/shadow recovery."

Obviously, the world is changing, but this seems to be yet one more tiny bit of erosion of Craftsmanship, handed off from a competent photographer, and dumped into the hands of Who Knows What kind of kid, that's handed a Hard Drive, and told "Hey kid, process these files". A kid with no vested interest, and no history or connection to the shoot, whatsoever.

Just one opinion. Not a good sign at all.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 09:33:11 AM »
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Well I agree and said so in another post about just handing out Raw files to clients. Not that there not capable of processing and such or someone on your team could actually do a better job than yourself. The whole I idea I don't like to lose  control. I do look at this new feature as actually a benefit when you do have to hand them off at least you can hand them off with some guidance from us the shooter so at least you get something in there that you can at least give some guidance on. These are two separate issue that meet up at the end and totally understand it and why clients or retouchers are asking for files to process them yourself but it is a dicey game for the shooter. Right or wrong on how you deal with your clients is one thing, obviously we all want to work and get paid for doing it. But this is risky in my mind. Now I view this new format as some kind of benefit to the shooter and the client also. So I view the file format as a good thing but on the other end as a risk. Not saying the client is not capable or anything like that but folks your giving out your Raw to the free world and copyright, usage and getting in the wrong hands after you hand them off the risk goes up. I know many are very successful at this with there clients and it works for them but I feel some type of contract needs to be in place to protect you for lose and damage to your files and to your copyrights. But also to protect you from them making a freaking mess out of your file it goes to print and than the blame comes back in your face. After 35 years at this I can see all sorts of issues just protect yourself is my main concern.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 10:00:42 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
I do look at this new feature as actually a benefit when you do have to hand them off at least you can hand them off with some guidance from us the shooter so at least you get something in there that you can at least give some guidance on.

To anyone who'd hand off RAW files to a client without a fight, I'd ask "Where is your pride? Where is your Nutsack?" Has it actually come to this? Do you guys not know how to pronounce the word "no"? Do you guys just roll over at anything they'd ask?

I guess I should personally applaud this, because what it's doing is separating the men from the boys. And the boys are the ones that are going to get left in the dust, when their once-valuable photography one day is viewed as simply a commodity that can be interchanged with any other photographer, even an in-house one.

Amazing that people cannot see the big picture here, and that every time you bend over, it's one less arrow in your arsenal.

And I just love how Phase One views this as a "feature" in their new software. As if this is something to be bragged about. "Here we are wanting forty grand for a back, yet at the same time, we're doing whatever we can to pull the rug out from underneath you, business-wise, and to erode your position of power with the client." If they only knew what they were really saying here. If Phase One had any clue whatsoever about the business of photography, and about ensuring that photographers are going to be around in ten years to pay their prices, they'd give every customer a coupon for a membership in APA or EP or ASMP, if they bought a back, so they could get educated enough to protect their business interests. Phase One must think this business is about taking pictures...
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:07:36 AM by gwhitf » Logged
G_Allen
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 10:07:28 AM »
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I normally deliver RAWs to my retoucher, that this 'EIP' function will make it easier to do that. I usually send a screen shot showing my suggested settings for processing, which always seemed a bit silly to me.

Also, I don't see what the big fuss is about delivering the RAWs to the client. A lot of my clients are doing the retouching in-house these days (with my input), and saving and delivering as EIPs make a lot of sense for me. I'll save time, and the post-production will be a smoother process for my clients.

I like.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 10:09:45 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Doug,

With all due respect, any software that's designed to make it easier for photographers to just hand off their RAW files to a client is NOT in the best interest of commercial photography.

Not only does the photographer shirk responsiblity in processing their own files, it also sends another tiny message of subliminal erosion of copyright, (at least in my opinion). It begins to treat the RAW files as a commodity.[...]


Quote from: Guy Mancuso
[...]I do look at this new feature as actually a benefit when you do have to hand them off at least you can hand them off with some guidance from us the shooter so at least you get something in there that you can at least give some guidance on. These are two separate issue that meet up at the end[...]


Easy or not many photographers were already being asked to hand over the raw file and had to do so by providing the raw file "naked" or with some reference JPG or screen grab of settings.

This tool allows you to hand over the raw file but with the adjustments and creative decisions in tact.

If, for personal, artistic, or business reasons, you don't want to provide a raw file as a deliverable then that is part of your Terms and Conditions negotiations with your clients.

Besides, even if you deliver only a processed TIFF the client can still, if it's not against your T&Cs modify it quite a bit as far as white balance, exposure, contrast etc.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:12:39 AM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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Rudy Torres
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 10:14:42 AM »
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The new eip extension sounds great for archiving. I would never use it to turn over raw files though. I've had several clients ask for raw files and for every one of those clients I have said, "NO". I haven't lost any client because of my policy.  

What I am more disappointed with is the misdirected use of resources developing this new file format, IMO. As I just looked at the release notes, there is no focus tool.
Another update and still no focus tool. Sometimes I wonder who Phase One talks to when coming up with ideas for updates. They certainly can't be talking to Pro shooters.

Going back to the raw thing... simply because Phase One has come up with this new extension doesn't mean you have to turn over raw files. If you don't want to, well then,... don't.

Craftsmanship, Craftsmanship, Craftsmanship
This is what we have to sell. It was that way before digital and still is.
If you don't sell YOU then you're no better off than the guy buying that dslr at the local electronics store and shouting to everyone, "Look, I'm a photographer now."
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geesbert
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 10:17:20 AM »
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every DNG i am handing over to my retoucher is a bit more time for me behind the camera, if anyhow possible I always try to give them DNGs, so they are not coming back to me over and over again with things that are hard for me to bill.
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 10:24:09 AM »
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Quote from: Rudy Torres
What I am more disappointed with is the misdirected use of resources developing this new file format, IMO. As I just looked at the release notes, there is no focus tool.
Another update and still no focus tool. Sometimes I wonder who Phase One talks to when coming up with ideas for updates. They certainly can't be talking to Pro shooters.

Specific changes made because of requests by our professional users:
  - default keyboard shortcuts now include +  -  *  used for tagging green, yellow, red to match the convention established in 3.X
  - keyboard arrow "bumps" for any adjustments; you can now use apple-Left, or apple-Right to change between images and change the exposure, contrast etc with up and down
  - allowing JPGs and TIFFs as inputs so that if you're shooting JPG for speed on a Canon tethered you can still make minor adjustments and make web contact sheets using those assets
  - tethered support for the D3X and 5DII
  - exclusion of the rating and color tag from the "copy from primary" next capture adjustments so tagging is not included in incoming images
  - the new EIP format which several PRO photographers have already chimed in as being useful in one way or another to them

These changes have been made since 4.6.3 which was released only three weeks ago. So yes, I think they are talking to pro shooters, and making many changes based on their inputs.

The floating viewer can be set to 100%, and reduced in size so that it matches the functionality of the previous focus tool. The only difference is that it is not docked to the tools. What functionality are you missing?

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 10:25:54 AM by dougpetersonci » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 10:37:10 AM »
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Doug

Don't get me wrong, Phase One makes good stuff. I use Phase One product with confidence.
What I don't get is the obvious "turn of the shoulder" from Phase One when all the shooters I've talked to all say the same thing.
"Bring back the focus tool as it was in 3.x". Google the topic and you'll see what I mean. What I'm I saying, I know Phase One knows this.
I don't have to tell them. Phase One just chooses to ignore it.

Leaf has it!
Aperture has it!
Lightroom has it!
Hell I wonder if even Phocus has it, (never used it), wouldn't surprise me if it did.

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bcooter
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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 10:39:13 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Specific changes made because of requests by our professional users:
.........................

These changes have been made since 4.6.3 which was released only three weeks ago. So yes, I think they are talking to pro shooters, and making many changes based on their inputs.


What "pro"fessional users are the talking to?   The first thing Phase should do is not release software until it's ready and has the ability to color code or tag selects from the start.

The second thing is change their file format from the .TIF marker to a something like .mos, or cr2, or .nef because when you do a search you know you found a raw file, not a retouched tif file or vice-versa.

The third thing is make the interface as easy as lightroom.

Number 4,  don't cut a deal with Microsoft and put vista development on the back burner.  You may think the world only uses mac's but apple has a lot of issues and are less attractive with every new model and even if they didn't there is a lot of reasons to have a vista machine.


Big
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csp
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 10:51:30 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
Doug,

With all due respect, any software that's designed to make it easier for photographers to just hand off their RAW files to a client is NOT in the best interest of commercial photography.


so true !
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bcooter
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 10:52:00 AM »
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Quote from: gwhitf
"Where is your pride? Where is your Nutsack?" Has it actually come to this? Do you guys not know how to pronounce the word "no"? Do you guys just roll over at anything they'd ask?


The upside to this crapped out economy is "no more excuses".

When Agency groups like omnicom disavow any responsibility for payment, when editorial now pays about a buck fifty for a spread, when "pro"fessional cameras are now selling for the "asking" price of $40,000 (The Lexus brand, not the Toyota brand), when used "pro"fessional cameras that sold for $30,000 last month are now going on ebay for $15,000 this is the time for photographers to  grow some hair and say enough is enough.

I've put every supplier on notice, retouchers, stylists, hair/makeup to do every task, no matter how mundane as if they were working for their portfolio, because in today's world your gonna need it to survive.

The same holds true with clients and art directors.  Everyone is client afraid and wants to drop back to 1992 concepts just to "be safe" and safe is not good enough, safe will eventually get you fired and safe doesn't do anything but hold you as a photographer back, does a disservice to the people that "eventually" pay you and wrecks your brand equity.    I just had a discussion with an AD on a project and I said let's do this for YOUR portfolio because god knows you may be beating the streets in two weeks looking for work.

That doesn't mean you have to be a camera throwing maniac, or not do what a client needs, but it does mean that everyone has to free themselves from fear and perform at the highest level.  Break the mold, do something worth looking at, shoot something that actually makes a viewer either bookmark it or tear the page out of the magazine to save it.  

This also holds true for camera makers.  No more of this "to come" BS.   No more beta testing software version 4point5point2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 hoping it doesn't crash, doesn't trash your files, doesn't loose the settings.  No more lenses to come, no more moire the size of a fist, no more lenses on backorder.  No more political little backroom games of hobbling one brand to sync at 1/400th where the identical body with a different painted on logo goes to 1/800th.  

Word to the medium format makers.  If you want to be around in 2012 make it easy on your customers not harder.  Make your file format universal, make sure your margins are low, your quality is high and you deliver on every promise.  Painting on a new logo doesn't up the price.

If a piece of equipment doesn't come into my door ready to rumble, then it goes back with a big note on the package saying refund due in full.

This forum has all sorts of photoraphers and some work in high pressured commerce, some are shooting trees for fun, but let the camera makers test this stuff on the fun guys, not the commercial guys because the world of photography for commerce just got a whole lot tougher.

Honestly, this is the time to grow some hair and protect your own brand as well as your client's.  If you do great work it will eventually rumble down the hallways as "wow, what a project, but if you turn crap, then you will be the guy that turns crap and never shake that label.

($40,000 for a still camera, you've got to be kidding me).


IMO


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csp
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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 10:59:54 AM »
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Quote from: geesbert
every DNG i am handing over to my retoucher is a bit more time for me behind the camera, if anyhow possible I always try to give them DNGs, so they are not coming back to me over and over again with things that are hard for me to bill.


why don't you just simply deliver a large maybe upsized 16bit tiff file instead.  what is the benefit of DNG you only give them the chance to fuck up your work.   DNG is is like konica film in the past.
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 11:03:35 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
The first thing Phase should do is not release software until it's ready and has the ability to color code or tag selects from the start.

Color Coding and Tagging was there from the first pro version of 4. Previously the convention + - * had to be manually entered in the custom keyboard shortcuts. This only took a minute, but it was stupid that it was not the default. Pro users who were used to those shortcuts gave the feedback that this was stupid, and so they fixed it.


Quote from: bcooter
The second thing is change their file format from the .TIF marker to a something like .mos, or cr2, or .nef because when you do a search you know you found a raw file, not a retouched tif file or vice-versa.

Done. On the P65+ and all future backs you can select the file extension ".IIQ" rather than ".TIF". The file format does not change, just the extension, solving the TIFF vs TIF confusion while maintaing file-format compatibility.

Quote from: bcooter
The third thing is make the interface as easy as lightroom.

I think the interface is even easier than LR, but there is no truth on this point, only opinion and a lot of what-you're-used-to. I respect your opinion which is shared by some; I hope you will respect mine which is shared by others.

Doug

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bcooter
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 11:23:31 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Color Coding and Tagging was there from the first pro version of 4. Previously the convention + - * had to be manually entered in the custom keyboard shortcuts. This only took a minute, but it was stupid that it was not the default. Pro users who were used to those shortcuts gave the feedback that this was stupid, and so they fixed it.




Done. On the P65+ and all future backs you can select the file extension ".IIQ" rather than ".TIF". The file format does not change, just the extension, solving the TIFF vs TIF confusion while maintaing file-format compatibility.



I think the interface is even easier than LR, but there is no truth on this point, only opinion and a lot of what-you're-used-to. I respect your opinion which is shared by some; I hope you will respect mine which is shared by others.

Doug

[font="Arial"]Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)



This ain't a popularity contest and though I respect your opinion, it doesn't change the fact that to get a .IIQ format every previous Phase One buyer has to drop about 20k in upgrade for something a lot of us weren't asking for in the first place.

Some need/want 60mpx, I don't, but that's not anyone's preference but mine and I guess I should make it clear, I don't expect anyone to care what I use.  I doubt if it matters.

What does matter is if we ask 7 questions about medium format we also get 4 answers back.  So with that in mind;

How bout' a firmware upgrade to change the end marker for the previous backs?  

None of this changes the fact that offering a way to deliver a raw file doesn't help us, though since medium format is a such a small part of the professional market I doubt if it will make much difference in the broad scheme of things.

As far as the interface, lightroom is faster and easier, mapping out images and applying a look is faster and I will give Phase the nod on the processing look it's great out of the can compared to lightroom, but ask your retoucher to learn c1 pro version whatever vs. photoshop cs3/4 or lightroom and they'll laugh, because they ain't taking any classes to learn where the sync button is.

It also doesn't change the fact that for us guys that work cross platform it took Phase a while to finally get vista "partially" working.

Like it or not, Adobe did it right by putting lightroom out for free in beta for a long time before they finally released it.  V1 wasn't perfect but it was damn good and it didn't take a class to learn how to batch process.

All of this camera talk is about selling cameras, not making and delivering photographs and until you've set down on deadline with about a zillion images to process you won't understand how fearful it can be to know that when working a new software your essentially a non paid beta tester.

Actually you do know as you always state don't try this on real jobs until it's tested and proven.  For that I give you your props along with probably being the best Phase dealer out there.  Your company does a good job and I am sure you give Phase a lot of feedback.  

Are they listening?

IMO

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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 11:23:49 AM »
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Forgot to mention: the new 8-core macs have hyper-threading which allows two threads on each core.

Capture One 4.7 takes advantage of this and is about 60-70% faster in processing large volumes of files as compared to 4.6.3 on these new 8-core macs.

Obviously this will only apply to a small number of users, but those users are the one's likely to be processing several thousand images a week and this means hours less of processing time.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 02:23:05 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
How bout' a firmware upgrade to change the end marker for the previous backs?

I'll check.
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