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Author Topic: Franke & Heidecke  (Read 19827 times)
mcfoto
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« on: April 03, 2009, 11:03:52 PM »
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Have not seen any news on Franke & Heidecke in the past few weeks?
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Denis Montalbetti
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 11:27:23 PM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Have not seen any news on Franke & Heidecke in the past few weeks?


"No news is good news"?   Or at least that's what Onick at Rollei NJ  Service said.....


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paratom
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 02:48:32 AM »
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Quote from: EricWHiss
"No news is good news"?   Or at least that's what Onick at Rollei NJ  Service said.....

As far as I understand F&H is in business and production.
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mcfoto
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 05:27:15 AM »
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http://www.photographyblog.com/news/sinar_in_good_health/
Quote"
Sinar have issued a positive statement following the news that Franke & Heidecke, which manufactures the body for the Hy6 camera system, is insolvent. “We hereby firmly declare that we continue to stand by our renowned Service for all the products of our company. We are convinced to fulfill all our commitments.” states the press release. Apart from the Hy6, the demise of Franke & Heidecke has absolutely no effect on the core business of Sinar.

Sinar Press Release

The news report of the 2nd of March 2009 that announced the fact that the firm of Franke & Heidecke, headquartered in the city of Braunschweig in Germany, has applied for the status of insolvency motivates us to make the following statement:

This information about Franke & Heidecke affects us as Sinar AG with respect to our medium format camera Model Hy6. Beyond that detail, the aforementioned information has absolutely no effect on the core business of Sinar AG and its well established professional, analog and digital view camera solutions for studio-, architectural-, industrial- and landscape photography.

The management of Sinar AG has contacted the insolvency administrators of Franke & Heidecke already. We hereby firmly declare that we continue to stand by our renowned Service for all the products of our company. We are convinced to fulfill all our commitments. We will keep you informed about the ongoing status regarding the firm of Franke & Heidecke.
End Quote
Hi
I love the part:
"Apart from the Hy6, the demise of Franke & Heidecke has absolutely no effect on the core business of Sinar."

This sounds like spin & if you loose the Hy6 I really think it will be game over for Sinar. Who wrote this?Huh

Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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PeterA
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 06:24:55 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi
I love the part:
"Apart from the Hy6, the demise of Franke & Heidecke has absolutely no effect on the core business of Sinar."

This sounds like spin & if you loose the Hy6 I really think it will be game over for Sinar. Who wrote this?Huh

Denis

I could be wrong - but I believe that Sinar/Jenoptic own the rights to the Hy6 and used F&H to manufacture the body - given F&H own the Rollie brand and manufacture the Rollie mount lenses that go on the Hy6. Leaf I believe have a contract of manufacture for the AFi body - via Jenoptic/Sinar. There isn't any information I am aware of that points to the hy6 being specifically responsible for F&H issues. It may well be the case that in fact the Hy6 is collateral damage in the situation. What is clear however is that any (eventual?) demise of F&H does not mean that the Hy6/Afi is dead. In fact any eventual demise may lead to the possibility of a better manufacturer (more solvent) taking over.

Therefore I think you may well be mistaken in your belief that it is 'game over' for Sinar.

However - I must admit that my optimistic take is based on the fact that I respect the company and its products very much - all one has to do use any of Sinar's products to feel the same - and that includes the Hy6 and the Rollie mount lenses from various manufacturers in various versions.

If people can put up with the third rate Phamiya body and its performance  - I am sure that there is a future for the Hy6/Afi body.

Cheers






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carstenw
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 06:27:32 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
"Apart from the Hy6, the demise of Franke & Heidecke has absolutely no effect on the core business of Sinar."

That Sinar is exposed to this situation via the Hy6 is something that anyone who matters already knows. With this statement, I am certain that Sinar is trying to reassure its customers that there is no hidden effect on Sinar, just the Hy6.
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 09:59:04 AM »
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Hi,
Maybe more good news.
I taught a workshop last week to some german photographers and one is very closely involved with the Franke & Heidecke affair.
He assured me that there will be no problems for the future of for example leaf or sinar (the topic was of course discussed during the workshop when he saw I shot with a leaf back).

I cannot go into depth into the matter because I don't want to say too much, but as it looks now there will be new money and some new companies involved in Franke & Heidecke.
I don't know if it will keep the same name, he could not tell me that but he assured me that in one form or another it would continue.

For me that's a relieve because I really don't like the idea of having to choose only between a closed Hasselblad system or the open Mamiya system that is getting more and more into Phase one hands. With all due respect for phase one by the way, but I'm a Leaf shooter

I think that in the coming weeks there will be more news, all positive as it looks now.
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
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Probably Leaf more than Sinar would be affected since PhaseOne and Mamiya are getting closer and Leaf is a digital back company.


The news of the death of the AFi/Hy6 system seams to have been exaggerated, but they have to price their systems aggressively, come up with the 35mm soon..-- and probably it would be a goo idea to do a "DX" 28mm--, hire Thyerry again and never paint even one body the way they seam to want to (stick to black please)...

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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2009, 04:26:38 PM »
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Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
but they have to price their systems aggressively, come up with the 35mm soon..-- and probably it would be a goo idea to do a "DX" 28mm--, hire Thyerry again and never paint even one body the way they seam to want to (stick to black please)...

I can't disagree with any of that
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paratom
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2009, 02:00:45 AM »
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Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
Probably Leaf more than Sinar would be affected since PhaseOne and Mamiya are getting closer and Leaf is a digital back company.


The news of the death of the AFi/Hy6 system seams to have been exaggerated, but they have to price their systems aggressively, come up with the 35mm soon..-- and probably it would be a goo idea to do a "DX" 28mm--, hire Thyerry again and never paint even one body the way they seam to want to (stick to black please)...

The painting - IMO - looks much worse on images than it does in reality. Once I received the Hy6 I didnt have any problem with it any more.
Every time I use the Hy6 I really enjoy it. Once you get used to the user interface it is just great for my taste. I like the grip showing the exposure information, I like the switches, I love the viewfinder, and I love the rotating back. I also like to have internal fast memory in my Sinar back. (I dont like the display of the back, worst part of all!!!)
The pricing of backs and Hy6 body is totally fine IMO, you can find very good prices.
The problem are the lenses, which are quite expensive.
Rather than a 35 I would like to see a 45 TC lens.
Cheers, Tom
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rethmeier
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2009, 02:21:06 AM »
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Tom,
you will never see a 45 PC lens for the Hy6.
Why not get a 55 PCS?
Awesome lens,I had one with my kit.
Blows the 40 out of the water!
Best,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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paratom
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2009, 03:01:44 AM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
Tom,
you will never see a 45 PC lens for the Hy6.
Why not get a 55 PCS?
Awesome lens,I had one with my kit.
Blows the 40 out of the water!
Best,
Willem.

I am not sure if I find 55 wide enough.
In the end I am also undecided if I should not rather "invest" in a camera with movements.
But as long as I am undecided I am not willing to spend further large amounts of money.
Willem, how big is the 55, how did you find the handling?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2009, 06:47:01 AM »
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Quote from: rethmeier
Blows the 40 out of the water!

Hi Willem, which 40 are you comparing it to, and what did you mean by 'blows it out of the water'? Usefulness of the T/S? Resolution? Something else?
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Carl Glover
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 07:43:26 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Hi Willem, which 40 are you comparing it to, and what did you mean by 'blows it out of the water'? Usefulness of the T/S? Resolution? Something else?

I find the Schneider 40mm to be excellent and the 55mm equally good.

I've got no idea what the Zeiss 40mm is like however...
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 09:25:28 AM »
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Quote from: Carl Glover
I find the Schneider 40mm to be excellent

Exactly, I can't imagine anything being significantly better.
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 11:49:48 AM »
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The system being 6x6 is good for larger sensors, rotating back etc. but they have to also admit that there is and will probable be a big --or the overwhelming majority-- of backs with 6x4.5 /or close to-- size. There is a small number of photographers that will never ever need a 35mm or 28mm, but, again, overwhelming majority do.

So the solution would be to produce a series of lenses that would be formulated to throw an image circle sufficient to cover 6x4.5. This lenses could be wider and faster. Also cheaper and easier to bring to market.

This way you could continue to use your 6x6 classic lenses and get some PC tilt/shift options with the smaller image circle available. Huge amounts of pixels can be placed on a 6x4.5 sensor size and price seams to be set according to sensor size, not total Mega Pixel count, so the larger sizes will always be comparatively more expensive to produce...

   

Quote from: foto-z
Exactly, I can't imagine anything being significantly better.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2009, 12:01:15 PM »
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Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
The system being 6x6 is good for larger sensors, rotating back etc. but they have to also admit that there is and will probable be a big --or the overwhelming majority-- of backs with 6x4.5 /or close to-- size. There is a small number of photographers that will never ever need a 35mm or 28mm, but, again, overwhelming majority do.

So the solution would be to produce a series of lenses that would be formulated to throw an image circle sufficient to cover 6x4.5. This lenses could be wider and faster. Also cheaper and easier to bring to market.

This way you could continue to use your 6x6 classic lenses and get some PC tilt/shift options with the smaller image circle available. Huge amounts of pixels can be placed on a 6x4.5 sensor size and price seams to be set according to sensor size, not total Mega Pixel count, so the larger sizes will always be comparatively more expensive to produce...

I agree, the camera only needs an image circle large enough to cover 645 in vertical and horizontal to keep the rotating back functionality. If there is a Hy6 MkII, it should be a little smaller to take this into account, and then they can introduce slightly smaller and cheaper lenses, as you say, without having to cover the full 6x6 (which is commercially-speaking a dead end). The existing lenses can be supported that way, but a new wide angle (and everything else) should be easier to produce.
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BJL
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2009, 12:38:10 PM »
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Quote from: Leonardo Barreto
So the solution would be to produce a series of lenses that would be formulated to throw an image circle sufficient to cover 6x4.5. This lenses could be wider and faster. Also cheaper and easier to bring to market.
That would make sense, especially if I am right in predicting that all MF sensors will be designed to fit the far more widely used 645 format. Even the new Leaf/Dalsa "True Wide" sensor of the Afi-II 10 and Aptus-II 10 backs, fits the 645 frame at 56x36mm, and is available for various 645 bodies.

One catch is that the longer registration distance and deeper mirror (about 56mm vs 42mm) of the Hy6 forces the use of more severely retro-focal designs for short focal lengths.
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 01:01:45 PM »
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Quote from: BJL
One catch is that the longer registration distance and deeper mirror (about 56mm vs 42mm) of the Hy6 forces the use of more severely retro-focal designs for short focal lengths.

Exactly
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paratom
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2009, 02:03:27 PM »
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I wonder why everybody is so negative that it will be possible to produce a 6x6 sensor for acceptable money not too far away from today.

Another thing I wonder: with the large image circle of 6x6 lense->wouldnt it be possible to develop a T/S unit for those lenses when you use them with a smaller sensor?

The lenses for the Hy6 just allow a larger sensor, as the phase and Hassy allow a larger sensor than the Leica S2, and the S2 larger as the 35mm DSLRs.

I allways talked myself that I dont need "full frame" DSLR and now I am selling my dx lenses.


It would be nice though to have the option of a 28mm-"dx"-Rollei lens.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 02:05:27 PM by paratom » Logged
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