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Author Topic: IF I ONLY BOUGHT IT A YEAR LATER  (Read 19262 times)
lisa_r
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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2009, 05:26:02 PM »
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Cheers Epd! This was a nice little essay you wrote. You're a renaissance man.

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Snook
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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2009, 05:41:19 PM »
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Quote from: lisa_r
Cheers Epd! This was a nice little essay you wrote. You're a renaissance man.

He also seems to write books and scripts in his hard to find spare time.
It must be in the Tea.
Snook
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2009, 05:51:47 PM »
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The positive side is that from now on there will probably be a leveling of the cost of digital cameras and backs. That is if people settle in close to 50MP for MF and 20MP for "35 mm" .. --12MP DX--

Cameras are maturing if you don't want to "have the one with the most resolution in the entire world" for example, a "cheap" D300 is a fantastic camera for stock shooting. Files are super clean and dynamic range is amazing...

Future top investments will probable not pass the $8k mark. My P 25 has no moving parts, the software -- I just upgraded to C 1 4.7, so it is fresh --- the file size is all what I need 22mp .. don't care that there is a Sony that has the same count (have you seen the 8MP phones ??) and IQ from the back and my prime Mamiya lenses is not degrading... for some reason it stays the same, every time I capture an image is as good as the first day.

I would say that the glass is half full

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Dustbak
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« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2009, 12:53:38 AM »
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For some reason this topic has taken a turn to a more general topic about the economic state of photography in general. Now, I am not at the stage where Epd is but not doing bad alltogether. I have no clients that are calling me to raise prices but do have them that called me to remind me to send my invoice  

I have lost some clients that were cutting costs, I won several that also were cutting costs. In general I have to do more effort to get in work but I am still able to uphold the same turnover this year as last year which was an excellent year. Clients were really putting everything on hold in the beginning of this year since their clients did the same, it now appears to have gone flowing somewhat again.

Personally I have planned to do more 'free-work' that I never came around to if the work drops and if it doesn't I will make money. Either way it will be ok. I have not dropped prices neither will I, I had rather do the 'free-work'.

Euhh... BTW. I don't have debts, I only invest what I make, I don't have a high mortgage, I don't own a car, I don't own a cell phone either (but I am always online and respond on mail extremely fast) so I guess I am pretty much in the same position as Epd  

As for the cost of MF. Most of the stuff I tend to buy second hand unless I can get a really good price for new or when new items are virtually unavailable 2nd hand and or almost the same price. Most important thing is that I tend to make the money before I invest.

I feel sorry you have to struggle Erick and are not being able to happily do the things you would like to. I hope this will take a turn for the better for you as well as for everybody else that is severely hit at this moment.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 02:27:59 PM by Dustbak » Logged
Nemo
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« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2009, 09:46:48 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
The big challenge that MFD has is that the world wide sales per year is about 5000-6000 units all up. Meaning that Hasselblad, Phase/Mamiya, Leaf & Sinar are all competing for that small market share. I have heard that the 5DII will sell about 300,000 units world wide in the life of that camera.
Denis

The prices explain the size of the market, and the size of the market explains the prices. It's a simultaneous determination. When backs were at prices of 20.000 euros or more the MF market collapsed. Now the prices gravitate towards 15.000 euros or less for a complete set (camera, back and standard lens). That's expensive yet, but this decrease in prices permit an increase in the total size of the market. MF provides a different image than 35mm format. It is due to many factors, but the format size alone changes the DoF versus FoV, tonal gradation, total detail recorded..., so it makes sense as a different product, if the price isn't much higher than the price of a 35mm DSLR "pro" camera. Mamiya and Hasselblad own this growing market (645 format), and only Leica can steal a part of the cake from their hands (but a much larger piece from the "pro" 35mm DSLR market).

In the film days you could buy a 6x6 or 645 camera for a price similar to a "pro" 35mm reflex camera (a Hasselblad V, Mamiya 645, Pentax 645, Bronica 645 versus a Nikon F5, or something similar). The prices were different, but not x3, x4 or x5 times different. This convergence is necessary if the MF market wants to survive. Professional 35mm DSLR cameras stay in the 7.000-8.000 euros mark (Canon 1Ds Mark III, Nikon D3x), and the MF cameras are approaching the <x2 range from that point (< 15.000 euros). For instance a Mamiya ZD, or Mamiya 645 and Hasselblad H last special offers... and probably the Leica S2...

.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 09:55:33 AM by Nemo » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2009, 12:06:46 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
Do not know what market you all are in but where I live the clients are .................
Snook

Forget the old days.  The more you do for the client, the deeper your involvement, the more you've become a creative partner, not just a freelance supplier.

The "bill the client" thought process is like buying a car with a vinyl top.  Some still think that way but it's old think and way out of fashion.

Years ago I dropped the "day rate, bill the client" thought from my brain and started working off of the bottom line.  

Since our studios is the production company and produces from conception to finish, essentially we are the client in regards to services we provide for "our clients".

This isn't a single thought process business and even photographers that tell me they do not want to be concerned with numbers or costs are just talking to themselves because in commerce it's all about numbers, costs and ROI.

What quality you put in front of your lens goes a long way to determining what you will deliver and if your going to continue to move your business and art forward  you better know how to negotiate the best resource for the given budget.

Photographers do themselves a great disservice if they think they are only there to produce the photograph or their roll is to only make it pretty.  Our role, like it or not, is to sell goods and services for our clients or our clients, clients.

Our role is to contribute to the concept, the production, the shoot down to final delivery.  We're a much larger part of the equation today than we were 10 years ago and though it may be hard, expensive and consuming, that's the process and it's not going to get any easier, at least I hope not.

Nothing on this planet is sold without interesting imagery, still or motion and nothing will build an international brand without some form of mass media, whether it's You Tube or a Conde Nast magazine.

Now back to the original post of this thread and the 100k lost through being an early adopter. I've done it, I've suffered a few bumps and bruises by jumping in, but I've also moved my business forward by knowing how to work in the modern era.

If you are working and producing then that 100k is a good investment, if you are just fixated on cameras and equipment and not taking in the whole process, then that's another story.  

Whether film was easier than digital, whether it was fun to go to the lab and have a few hours off, is the past.  Today we can and do produce in ways never dreamed of before and it requires more time and capital investment, though the returns are greater.

I hear of photographers that know only about the photograph and have heard the comments like EDP that say they don't have a cell phone, take plenty of time to relax and recharge, etc. etc. and if they can do it and be profitable then more power to them, but I've found this is an 18 hour a day business and it is all consuming.   If you love what you do then it's not an issue, but I've found in the past  if my golf game gets good, I have plenty of rest and my feet don't hurt,  is the year my billings will be down.

When I am uncomfortable and exhausted then  I am doing well and if I am in a room where I don't understand the language, even if that language is my native English (actually native Texan), then I know I'm moving forward because I'm learning.

In fact our busiest times is when we are not shooting because that is when we invest and  push forward.

This isn't an either/or industry.  If you invest in equipment it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't invest in advertising, producing personal work and traveling to and learning other markets.  Obviously you have to be smart about where you put your resources, but unless your producing new work and moving forward then you will get passed by.  This is not an industry where you can hold position, waiting for the storm to blow over.  

To move forward in this business you have to be available and complete.   Sunday I was working on post and took a call from a new client.  My producer answered the phone and the conversation went on with the client for one and a half hours and it wasn't just about art or "my style", but how we produce, deliver and work in world markets.   It was about the complete process, all the way down to the bottom line.

As far as cameras, cameras are just tools and some do more things than others, some work fine in a specialty sense, but if medium format has a liability it's not in the build quality or costs, it's the usability.   If the P65 (or every new medium format camera)  that was just announced had live video, a 4" lcd as good as an iphone, went to high iso, had a full range of fast lenses and a way to fine tune the image in camera for quick jpeg processing, then 40 to 50k wouldn't be an issue. But to spend that 40k it has to give me much more than I have today.   I personally think medium format has got to get that megapixel
thought process out of their minds and move to usability.  



IMO

JRR
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Nemo
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2009, 01:19:03 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
If the P65 (or every new medium format camera)  that was just announced had live video, a 4" lcd as good as an iphone, went to high iso, had a full range of fast lenses and a way to fine tune the image in camera for quick jpeg processing, then 40 to 50k wouldn't be an issue. But to spend that 40k it has to give me much more than I have today.   I personally think medium format has got to get that megapixel thought process out of their minds and move to usability.


That would requiere a large investment in technology. The market is so small that it doesn't make sense for Mamiya or Hasselblad. Usability depends on a good interface, good firmware and state-of-the-art hardware, but the key is the third point. It requires CMOS sensor and ASIC electronics, just like the 35mm DSLR cameras from Canon, Nikon or Sony. Maybe retroilluminated CMOS sensors without AA filters are in the pipeline from Kodak or Dalsa. Leica S2 is build from an ASIC electronics, but it uses a CCD from Kodak. It is a step in the right direction though. Moreover, MF needs a megapixel mark, because one of the key advantages of larger formats was more detail.
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2009, 01:50:43 PM »
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James,

Your writing is always a good read.

I guess that there is a market for MFDBs and other stuff among the well situated non commercial photographers who strive for the optimum quality. These photographers may make decent money nevertheless, but probably have a other issues than folks in the commercial photo business. As far as I understand the clients you have are mostly not interested in 40 or 60 MPixels but require a complete solution for their needs. So, to my understanding, you would appreciate stuff outside the normal mould, like medium format with usable live view.

I guess that there is a need for thinking outside the box, like RED seems have done or the Micro 4/3 folks. A clunky MF SLR may not be the optimum platform for an MFDB.

Especially landscape photographers will probably always appreciate a couple of extra megapixels. We sort of want to make the picture of our lifetime, and we want it to be as good as it can be.

My personal guess is that we need MFDBs with "live view" in combination with a decent LCD. The best camera to put that MFDB on may not be an SLR but a lightweight technical camera, like the Alpa recently discussed on this forum. Of course with MFDBs you may have freedom to put in on what you need, a medium format SLR, something like the Alpa or even a technical camera like the Linhof. Just adding a workable "live view" may make the MFDB much more useful and flexible.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: James R Russell
Forget the old days.  The more you do for the client, the deeper your involvement, the more you've become a creative partner, not just a freelance supplier.

The "bill the client" thought process is like buying a car with a vinyl top.  Some still think that way but it's old think and way out of fashion.

Years ago I dropped the "day rate, bill the client" thought from my brain and started working off of the bottom line.  

Since our studios is the production company and produces from conception to finish, essentially we are the client in regards to services we provide for "our clients".

This isn't a single thought process business and even photographers that tell me they do not want to be concerned with numbers or costs are just talking to themselves because in commerce it's all about numbers, costs and ROI.

What quality you put in front of your lens goes a long way to determining what you will deliver and if your going to continue to move your business and art forward  you better know how to negotiate the best resource for the given budget.

Photographers do themselves a great disservice if they think they are only there to produce the photograph or their roll is to only make it pretty.  Our role, like it or not, is to sell goods and services for our clients or our clients, clients.

Our role is to contribute to the concept, the production, the shoot down to final delivery.  We're a much larger part of the equation today than we were 10 years ago and though it may be hard, expensive and consuming, that's the process and it's not going to get any easier, at least I hope not.

Nothing on this planet is sold without interesting imagery, still or motion and nothing will build an international brand without some form of mass media, whether it's You Tube or a Conde Nast magazine.

Now back to the original post of this thread and the 100k lost through being an early adopter. I've done it, I've suffered a few bumps and bruises by jumping in, but I've also moved my business forward by knowing how to work in the modern era.

If you are working and producing then that 100k is a good investment, if you are just fixated on cameras and equipment and not taking in the whole process, then that's another story.  

Whether film was easier than digital, whether it was fun to go to the lab and have a few hours off, is the past.  Today we can and do produce in ways never dreamed of before and it requires more time and capital investment, though the returns are greater.

I hear of photographers that know only about the photograph and have heard the comments like EDP that say they don't have a cell phone, take plenty of time to relax and recharge, etc. etc. and if they can do it and be profitable then more power to them, but I've found this is an 18 hour a day business and it is all consuming.   If you love what you do then it's not an issue, but I've found in the past  if my golf game gets good, I have plenty of rest and my feet don't hurt,  is the year my billings will be down.

When I am uncomfortable and exhausted then  I am doing well and if I am in a room where I don't understand the language, even if that language is my native English (actually native Texan), then I know I'm moving forward because I'm learning.

In fact our busiest times is when we are not shooting because that is when we invest and  push forward.

This isn't an either/or industry.  If you invest in equipment it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't invest in advertising, producing personal work and traveling to and learning other markets.  Obviously you have to be smart about where you put your resources, but unless your producing new work and moving forward then you will get passed by.  This is not an industry where you can hold position, waiting for the storm to blow over.  

To move forward in this business you have to be available and complete.   Sunday I was working on post and took a call from a new client.  My producer answered the phone and the conversation went on with the client for one and a half hours and it wasn't just about art or "my style", but how we produce, deliver and work in world markets.   It was about the complete process, all the way down to the bottom line.

As far as cameras, cameras are just tools and some do more things than others, some work fine in a specialty sense, but if medium format has a liability it's not in the build quality or costs, it's the usability.   If the P65 (or every new medium format camera)  that was just announced had live video, a 4" lcd as good as an iphone, went to high iso, had a full range of fast lenses and a way to fine tune the image in camera for quick jpeg processing, then 40 to 50k wouldn't be an issue. But to spend that 40k it has to give me much more than I have today.   I personally think medium format has got to get that megapixel
thought process out of their minds and move to usability.  



IMO

JRR
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Carsten W
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2009, 02:20:17 PM »
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Quote from: Nemo
It requires CMOS sensor and ASIC electronics, just like the 35mm DSLR cameras from Canon, Nikon or Sony.

CMOS is only needed for features like Live View. If you are okay without, no problem, the better colours of CCD is preferable. Rather than ASICs, FPGAs should be fine, and are in some ways even prefererable too.
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Dansk
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2009, 04:05:15 PM »
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 Depreciation? Hmmm first digi cam our studio bought was a Sony DKC 3CCD. I'd be pretty surprised if anyone that posts here is familiar with those dinosaurs BUT we paid 55K USD each. Used them for 3 years shooting product. Sold them on ebay for 1500 bucks each and that was mainly because they used BETA cam glass and each one sold with a variable lens that was at that time still being actively used for News reportage. A whopping 1.5mp those were haha too funny. They seemed so futuristic at the time. Anyways they more than were well paid for but the point is the depreciation factor became crystal clear to me right then and there. Bought the very first 6mp Lightphase too ( $37K IIRC? ) with no filter and absolutely horrid results for the first week until we got the filter trick figured out. Major pita that was we had to mount it in front of the lens and with so many lenses we gave up and made a mount up out of some grip or occasionally got an assistant to hold it for us. Eventually Phase offered a modification to the back to fit it directly on the sensor so we upgraded it. Sold that on ebay for $3K a few years later. H20 afterwards and on and on.

Anyways been on the forefront of the digital tech since it started. IIRC about 2yrs back I got arguing in a thread with some of you here about the homogenization effect that will quickly consume MF entirely. Format is moot period. Clients dont give a flying #$%# about format. I havent even been ASKED in years what system I shoot with by my clients. I ask what they need the stuff for and fill the requirements however I please and havent had a complaint yet. Billboards.... Dare I say it? 1Ds mk 1!!! Yep done it in a jam mind you but no one complained and I got paid so what the #%&* do I care I shoot to keep food on my table and gas in my Porsche not for pats on the back. JK I dont drive a Porsche that was just to raz you guys I drive a used GMC pick up with a locakble hard toneau cover. Had a bad theft years ago with a fancy car and never drove one since. The truck is cheap to maintain. Lugs all my gear anywhere and best of all? It looks exactly like the thousands and thousands on the road and who ever think to look in the back of a pick up for a couple hundred grand worth of camera gear? Exactly... Call me mr invisible I like things that way

  James couldn't agree more. The 1Ds changed the game so radically and permanently. Gadgets dont sell art... Art sells art and that is in the eye of the beholder. Clients are getting better and picking out whos got the chops and who is simply another guy with a fancy camera who thinks thats what makes him great. I am so pleased for this now to be the reality as for a while there I was getting pissed by all the new fish jumping in the game thinking they had all the answers just because they had a fancy camera. There has been a clear pendulum swing in this market downturn that is RESULTS driven. Clients are getting fired if they do not produce results from their efforts and that means to us photographers that they MUST choose wisely and make sure EVERYONE likes the work or they are in it deep. Made picking up work for me easier than ever.

I've never had a busier Jan/Feb/March and it shows no sign of slowing

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Enda Cavanagh
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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2009, 04:33:01 PM »
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I bought a Hasselblad and Cambo system with 5 lenses, 2 years ago for about 40,000 plus sales tax. Total to be paid out is about 45,000
I have it on a finance lease over 3 years. I will claim back about 47%. Therefore the whole camera system costs me about 24,000. Oh I do love my accountant. That's paid out over 3 years. That's about 8,000 a year. There's no way I would get most of my work if I did not have this or a similar camera system as I work as an architectural photographer. If I don't make back 8,000 in 3 years, than it's time to make a career change.

There's no way I'm going to make a change unless it's in my best interests. If I was to get another upgrade, well I have the lenses, I have the existing body, which I can sell off (sure at pretty bad prices at the moment) so the next finance lease would be less than half of what I pay now. What you say about the new fad buys can be correct a lot of the time. Even when the time will come to buy an upgrade I'll be like a pitbull on the leash.



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AndreNapier
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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2009, 06:55:04 PM »
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Quote from: Enda Cavanagh
That's paid out over 3 years. That's about 8,000 a year. There's no way I would get most of my work if I did not have this or a similar camera system as I work as an architectural photographer. If I don't make back 8,000 in 3 years, than it's time to make a career change.
That was truly not my point. Each on my cameras paid for itself in just few weeks. If by " paid for itself  " we mean the total income that it brought. The point is that Aptus 75 would bring exactly the same money as Aptus 75S and not a penny less than Aptus AFI. I am the first one to believe in top quality equipment. I put tons of money in the new studio to be on a cutting edge and a step ahead of competition. However when it comes to digital equipment the improvements are so minute that for all practical reasons being a year behind the newest gadgets changes truly nothing. Same sensor and folding LCD. Wow! I still can not see anything outdoors.
And Yes I charge my clients for DB but none of them asked me ever if this is the newest one or even what camera I am going to show up with.

EPD
The only person that is financially connected to my business who ever told me to raise my prices was my wife. Are you sure that they are not telling you that you are good so you finally should start charging some money.
No cell phone and so busy - Are you cashing in on the new passport requirements for Mexico?
I work 16+ hours a day and I am available to my clients 24/7
All my phones are connected and they are searching for me wherever I am. That is today business. Now back to my tea.
http://AndreNapier.com
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Enda Cavanagh
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« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2009, 07:15:48 PM »
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Si
And that's why i'm not getting another until I absolutly have to.........although I will be chomping at the bit if and when the time comes.

Quote from: AndreNapier
That was truly not my point. Each on my cameras paid for itself in just few weeks. If by " paid for itself  " we mean the total income that it brought. The point is that Aptus 75 would bring exactly the same money as Aptus 75S and not a penny less than Aptus AFI. I am the first one to believe in top quality equipment. I put tons of money in the new studio to be on a cutting edge and a step ahead of competition. However when it comes to digital equipment the improvements are so minute that for all practical reasons being a year behind the newest gadgets changes truly nothing. Same sensor and folding LCD. Wow! I still can not see anything outdoors.
And Yes I charge my clients for DB but none of them asked me ever if this is the newest one or even what camera I am going to show up with.

EPD
The only person that is financially connected to my business who ever told me to raise my prices was my wife. Are you sure that they are not telling you that you are good so you finally should start charging some money.
No cell phone and so busy - Are you cashing in on the new passport requirements for Mexico?
I work 16+ hours a day and I am available to my clients 24/7
All my phones are connected and they are searching for me wherever I am. That is today business. Now back to my tea.
http://AndreNapier.com
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Snook
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« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2009, 07:29:22 PM »
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Quote from: AndreNapier
That was truly not my point. Each on my cameras paid for itself in just few weeks. If by " paid for itself  " we mean the total income that it brought. The point is that Aptus 75 would bring exactly the same money as Aptus 75S and not a penny less than Aptus AFI. I am the first one to believe in top quality equipment. I put tons of money in the new studio to be on a cutting edge and a step ahead of competition. However when it comes to digital equipment the improvements are so minute that for all practical reasons being a year behind the newest gadgets changes truly nothing. Same sensor and folding LCD. Wow! I still can not see anything outdoors.
And Yes I charge my clients for DB but none of them asked me ever if this is the newest one or even what camera I am going to show up with.

EPD
The only person that is financially connected to my business who ever told me to raise my prices was my wife. Are you sure that they are not telling you that you are good so you finally should start charging some money.
No cell phone and so busy - Are you cashing in on the new passport requirements for Mexico?
I work 16+ hours a day and I am available to my clients 24/7
All my phones are connected and they are searching for me wherever I am. That is today business. Now back to my tea.
http://AndreNapier.com

I think EPd is some 13 year little kid who just seems to talk OHA .
No cell phone and No website and No time must get him tons of work...:+}
I know it is the Tea.
And I was not talking about the economy or work. I too have been pretty busy for the last 2-3 months and future jobs look pretty good considering you all are in a crisis. There was just a month or 2 where everyone kind of froze and did not want to do anything. Now things are swinging around as we do not rely very much on the USA., I am talking about no one in my area charges day fees and then adds a huge list of rental equipment like many do in other countries. Specially in New York.
My prices are above standard rates where I live, But I do not charge in my Budgets.. Item #5 ... Digital Back $$$$. The client knows my work and expects me to have professional equipment.
The problem is that since I have acquired a MFDB my prices have not gone up, which the client would not pay for anyways. They figure it is my option to shoot with a 2500.00 5DII a 7,000.00 1DsMIII or a 14,000.00 DB or a 40,000.00 DB.
That was my point.
I go up against other photographers who have invested also alot and others who have not. We charge more or less what the market dictates...
I do a lot of my own productions and try an filter in stuff here and there, but people here lose jobs of 10K-20k for 200.00. That is just the way it is where I live and I am sure in many areas.
Yeh if you Mario Testino or Annie Leibowitz I am sure you can charge what ever the hell you want... And then end up bankrupt anyways...:+}
Hope that is clearer for many.


Snook
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shelby_lewis
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« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2009, 07:37:38 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
I think EPd is some 13 year little kid who just seems to talk OHA .
No cell phone and No website and No time must get him tons of work...:+}
I know it is the Tea.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this, lol  
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ErikKaffehr
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2009, 12:16:26 AM »
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Hi,

There has been plenty of CCD cameras with live view, almost all point and shoots to begin with. So live view is certainly doable on CCD technology, it may be unpractical with large CCDs, however. Regarding color, CCD is a a semiconductor technology so it cannot have a lot to do with color, which is dependent on the color filter grid array deposited on the sensor. It's well possible that CCD vendors opt for CFGAs with better color characteristics and forsaking some sensivity (because of high absorption of certain spectral colors) and therefore can achieve better color.

IMHO one of the advantages of MFDBs is that they can be deployed on different cameras. In many of those applications a functional live view would be most helpful.

Just as a side issue, I'm mighty impressed by the kind of computing power built in todays DSLRs, opening a raw file in lightroom may take 5 seconds or so, using my Intel iMac with its 2.16 GHz core duo, the Sony A900 generates JPEGs at 5 frames/s using a feeble lithium/ion battery, so it's like 20 times faster than the Core 2 duo while only using a small fraction of the power.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: carstenw
CMOS is only needed for features like Live View. If you are okay without, no problem, the better colours of CCD is preferable. Rather than ASICs, FPGAs should be fine, and are in some ways even prefererable too.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2009, 12:39:09 AM »
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I may be missing something but if the clients couldn't care less or see the difference, why was the decision to invest economically viable in the first place for so many of you stating the above?

I'm not a commercial photographer, I'm a wedding shooter. The very top guy in my particular market put away his 'blads and 120 film when the 10D came out, he said the clients couldn't tell the difference so why should he bother. Same reason I see no push to upgrade from my 5D's, They can't see any difference so - as a business - I don't need more. Is it that much different in the commercial world? I understand certain applications require things which DSLR's cannot do, but for the rest, if there is no client demand nor market to sell the fact you are using specific equipment then why? Seems to be far too much 'but I can see X' or 'it's important to me' on this board, I'm sure that any business plan based on those sentiments would be laughed out of the banks loan department...
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yaya
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« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2009, 01:16:04 AM »
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Quote from: ErikKaffehr
Hi,

There has been plenty of CCD cameras with live view, almost all point and shoots to begin with. So live view is certainly doable on CCD technology, it may be unpractical with large CCDs, however.

Hi Erik please note that Point & Shoot cameras use Interline CCD technology which is different to Full-Frame technology used in digital backs. Interline CCDs were originally created for video cameras whereas Full-Frame CCDs were made for stills imaging.

Thanks

Yair
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Nemo
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« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2009, 04:13:01 AM »
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CMOS sensors have in board circuitry for noise treatment, etc. Power consumption of a system based on a CMOS sensor and ASIC electronics may be much lower. Retroilluminated CMOS sensors place the circuitry at the back of the chip, and the total surface for light collecting is much larger.
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KevinA
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« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2009, 04:42:01 AM »
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In 2007 I was so close to going over to MF I did not make the leap, a month or two ago I started the process again. The thing is I just ask myself "who am I doing this for, me or the client" it's always me I would not earn a penny more from shooting MF, no one has ever complained about the Canon images (other than me), I like MF for many reasons. For me the cost just does not stack up, I would be stroking my own ego if I bought a MF system.
In fact of late looking around the Olympus system has some fantastic lenses, sharp and fast, 12mp corner to corner sharp is more use to me than 16mp/22mp fuzzy. When do I or my clients need 30mp or more of MF? very seldom and when they do I have upsized without a hint of complaint.
Sure MF delivers better files, I do wonder how many clients know, bother or care that they are better, with the money in the world as tight as it is less and less ends up in print and more is done on the net. Give it a year or two and I'll only need a decent camera on my mobile phone.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
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