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Author Topic: A decent street shooting camera  (Read 8235 times)
250swb
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« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 03:54:54 PM »
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I think the difficulty would be precisely because 'some' manufacturers would not want to use the 'M' mount. They would need a whole new range of lenses to compete with anybody using the M mount, and who would bet against Leica for overall lens quality (nobody has come close yet)?

I think the whole roadmap that Panasonic are going down is the future. Not only does the Pana G1 already out resolve the Nikon D3 and D300 under good conditions (according to tests in this weeks Amateur Photographer magazine), but the lens to sensor distance is already within the datum point for using M lenses. Addmitedly you need an adapter to use the M lenses on a G1, but the manual focus and the wide apertures available are part of the raison d'etre for this type of thing. And Panasonic already have close ties with Leica.

Steve
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JohnBrew
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2009, 07:40:43 PM »
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Steve, from what I've read so far about the M mount adapters the news is not good. I am guessing that because the sensor is not designed specifically for the M lens, which Leica spent several years of testing and research to get right, the results are less than desirable. But we can all still hope   .
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250swb
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2009, 02:45:08 AM »
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You are right John that the sensor is not designed for M mount lenses, 4/3 lenses being near telecentric, but the results I have seen so far from the M adapter (and other legacy RF lenses) are pretty impressive. I have linked to a general discussion below that has some examples from  'difficult' lens, like the Nokton, but also the Elmarit 90mm, the results of which look superb, as do those from a Pen F lens.

http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/showthread.php?t=46053

Steve
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jjj
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2009, 09:40:48 PM »
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Quote from: lensfactory
The olympus 420 with the 25mm pancake does the trick.
Not if you consider a 28 or 24mm [on a 35mm as standard it won't.
Quote
Why super fast lenses? 2.8 at 800ISO is more than you will ever need. A lot of "street shooters" fixate on this, as if it's that important.
Because it is important to them.
I was shooting on the street at night with my 5D and f2.8 lens at 100ISO  and needed higher ISO and faster lenses. Plus you get a different look at wider apertures.

Quote
For $500 (street price) you can get this combo. I use it...and I got it for exactly the purpose you describe. Cheap,fast,small,and big files...
simple
Except that it is no use for my purposes. So not simple at all as we al have different needs.
I want to be able to shoot at 6400ISO cleanly at decent shutter speeds on occasons. I've shot in some very, very dingy places at times.
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Yves Gaudet
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2009, 12:48:13 PM »
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I really woud not be shy to use something like the G10, panasonic LX3, Nikon P6000 or even Leica D-Lux 4 (maybe to expensive for its quality)

Canon G10: http://www.lozeau.com/Product.aspx?nav_id=9178&lang_id=E

Panasonic LX3: http://www.lozeau.com/Product.aspx?nav_id=8832&lang_id=E

Nikon P6000: http://www.lozeau.com/Product.aspx?nav_id=8996&lang_id=E

Leica D-Lux 4: http://www.lozeau.com/Product.aspx?nav_id=9284&lang_id=E

They can be all manual cameras and have a really good lens quality



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Paul Sumi
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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2009, 03:07:03 PM »
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Quote from: 250swb
Its a good point. A lot of P&S cameras like the GRD, and even the Canon G10 are great at the overall concept, and look good in overall specification. But for street shooting they fall down on the basic's, they can't shoot fast enough and on many you would be pumping the shutter button in frustration trying to capture 'action' photo's.

Steve


I agree.  As much as I enjoy my G10, it's not a street shooter.  Shutter lag is too much for action and the noise is rubbish over about ISO 400. But I think it's great for general photography when I'm not carrying my "serious" gear.

Paul
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dalethorn
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« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2009, 09:48:19 PM »
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Quote from: PaulS
I agree.  As much as I enjoy my G10, it's not a street shooter.  Shutter lag is too much for action and the noise is rubbish over about ISO 400. But I think it's great for general photography when I'm not carrying my "serious" gear.
Paul

The Pana LX3 works well for me in low light, whether indoors, or outdoors in urban settings. The real limitations of the LX3 in low light are large low-contrast areas, or very complex areas like foliage, which tend to smear. Buildings, people, furniture etc. reproduce well, and I can get a decent 8 x 10 inch print from an ISO 800 image sometimes (not always), with no special noise treatment. You should always turn the in-camera noise processing down.
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Osprey
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« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2009, 05:13:58 AM »
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Quote from: dalethorn
The Pana LX3 works well for me in low light, whether indoors, or outdoors in urban settings. The real limitations of the LX3 in low light are large low-contrast areas, or very complex areas like foliage, which tend to smear. Buildings, people, furniture etc. reproduce well, and I can get a decent 8 x 10 inch print from an ISO 800 image sometimes (not always), with no special noise treatment. You should always turn the in-camera noise processing down.

Also, the LX-3 is easy to manual focus and the shutter lag is very short when the focus is already set.  The burst mode is also quite nice when you are not using the flash.  The only problem with the camera is that the manual focus setting resets itself when the camera goes to sleep, which is a shame.
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schrodingerscat
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« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2009, 01:31:08 PM »
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Quote from: JohnBrew
Steve, from what I've read so far about the M mount adapters the news is not good. I am guessing that because the sensor is not designed specifically for the M lens, which Leica spent several years of testing and research to get right, the results are less than desirable. But we can all still hope   .

The problem with any film era lens on a digital camera are the micro lenses on the sensor. These want the light path to be perpendicular, and except for macros, virtually all conventional lens designs(pre-digital) are curved field with the light path at the edges hitting the film/sensor plane at an angle. This was a main stumbling block for Leitz in developing a full frame M camera.

I seem to remember that they, and probably others, are working on technology to be able to offset the lenses at the edges of the sensor to compensate. The only other alternative is to develop a curved sensor.

Look at the rear of any fast digilens and you will see a large exit pupil. This is why modern fast lenses designed for full frame are so dang huge...and expensive.

Designing, engineering, and building quality optics has always been difficult and the challenges presented by digital sensors have only made it more so. The cost of Leitz and Zeiss optics is not due to vanity or obscene profits. Developing the technologies and paying the skilled technicians to hand build products using the highest quality materials is expensive.

Cranking plastic bits out in a third world country is not.
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DaveL
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2009, 01:11:37 PM »
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My Leica M3 fit the bill perfectly. It was stolen. Replaced it with an M4P that didn't suit me at all.

The camera that I now use that works best in this regard is a Canon g9. I've added the grip that is described in the "G9 in Japan" article on this site. It's an easy carry for me. ymmv

Is it perfect? no, but it's affordable.

DaveL
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tetsuo77
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« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 03:22:58 AM »
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"Surely someone else could come up with a digital rangefinder targeted at street shooting, and it could be reasonably small with the micro four thirds format now out there. Imagine a slightly smaller version of an M Leica with coupled rangefinger. I think for the type of shooters that would use it, a 6mp (if micro or even a standard four thirds chip was used), or even better an APS-C of about 8mp. This would mean great low noise shots thanks to current sensor and processor technology - perfect for reportage type work.  I would carry a camera like that with me almost every day. I would be happy to pay about Australian $2000 or so for a body like this, as long as there are a small number of good lenses available to go with it.

I did look at the new baby Olympus SLR, but the range of lenses is limited at least for what I want and is still a bit bulky being a reflex camera. There is no wide prime (a fast, 35mm full frame equivalent is what I would want most), the 25mm pancake(50mm equivalent) is great as it is tiny, but a faster version would be better. The 50mm Macro would also be good for portraits (100mm equivalent). I can only imagine it would be very difficult to manually focus in dim lighting though. I certainly don't want to resort to using flash for this style of shooting"


I just dont understand why if you put all those questions on a formula, and the answer comes as a simple one, no one has told you that...

There is a brand which has BRAND NEWLY DEVELOPED FOR DIGITAL PANCAKE LENSES for street shooting and not one, but TWO good dSLR which are coat pocketable, one of them WEATHER SEALED, at bargain prices, with good quality.

On top of that, you can have the OLDER petite primes, which are faster than the current digital versions, but alas more expensive, covering a total amount of a 15 to 77mm primes [22.5mm to 115.5mm equiv], to your choice.

Alas:
Pentax K200d +
DA 14 2.8
DA 15 4
DA 21 3.2
FA 31 1.8
DA 35 Macro 2.8 [spectacular lens]
DA 40 2.8
FA 43 1.9
FA 50 1.4
DA 70 2.4
FA 77 1.8

Being the 31 the longest of the bunch [if I remember well].

A K200d+ FA 43, specially with the label blackened out [but not apparently that important, as it seems obvious that nobody in this forum -really, not pun intended- remembered that Pentax existed, hence no worries about thieves; there is no market to sell those lenses or bodies] is the perfect machine for street shooting.

Edit:
The K200d, because of being discontinued, has bargain basement prices [but not bargain basement quality]. Were you wanting something even smaller [sloted between the Oly 420 and the K200d] you might want to check out the Km [also, avaliable in camo or olive green].

Edit 2:
And there is the bonus of the only digital fisheye zoom. Which is plain fun on streetshooting.

Edit 3:
[sorry].
There is a very interesting 14mm 2.8 prime. BUT [and it is a big but] it is quite massive, asking for a 77mm filter [where you be wanting it]. In that regard, the 15mm is more subtle and does have a slide out hood, accepting 49mm filters. Although being f4, Id try it out -it is a very recent lens- to see if it is a fully usable aperture, as the Sigma DP1 is.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 11:52:14 AM by tetsuo77 » Logged
GregW
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2009, 02:06:35 PM »
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Maybe I'm missing something but could the recently announced Samsung NX be future contender? According to dpreview.com "PMA 2009: Samsung has today officially unveiled its new 'hybrid digital camera' system, in the shape of the NX series. Similar in concept to Micro Four Thirds but using a larger APS-C sensor, this new system is designed to combine the performance and quality of an SLR with the convenience and portability of a point and shoot. By replacing the mirror box and optical viewfinder of an SLR with an electronic viewfinder, the NX series is designed to allow smaller and lighter bodies and lenses. The first model of the NX series will be available in the second half of 2009."

   

Source:Samsung unveils new NX series camera system
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 02:07:48 PM by GregW » Logged
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