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Author Topic: Leica M8 / Epson / Sigma  (Read 52611 times)
carstenw
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« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2009, 06:01:09 AM »
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Quote from: geesbert
Carsten, have you tried the 'Thumbs Up'?

I've thought about picking one up, and I am pretty sure that it would fix the problem while shooting, but three things bug me: 1) it doesn't fold away when the camera is not in use, 2) the hot shoe is now a cold shoe, at best, and 3) it does nothing to make the winding noise quieter, as a real winding lever would. In the end, I found the compromises too strong to want to invest in it. I can use the M8 as is just fine, but I just see room for improvement.
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drew
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« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2009, 06:51:49 AM »
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Just passing and was somewhat bemused to find this thread in the MFDB section and then baffled to see it was five pages long, but then realised it had turned into one of those strange, anally retentive discussions on the merits of Leicas and some sort of sense happened.
In relation to what Henrik wants, this is quite simple. If he has the money for an M8 and he is a good photographer, he will take good pictures with it. The same is also true for the other cameras mentioned, but much less money will be involved.
However, there are some strange things:
1/ Why the preoccupation with jpeg quality? Is this a sort of oxymoron thing? Cards and storage are dirt cheap. Why would someone wanting an M8 not be prepared to process raw files? Perhaps Henrik should tell us about his level of experience and why this is as important as the esoteric discussion of certain Leica lenses and performance at certain apertures?
2/ Where does this comparison of cameras with cars come from? Toyota vs Maserati? Or is this just more Leica snobbishness? Getting from A to B is not the same as looking at great photographs (note, it is the photographer who takes the pictures).
At the end of 2007, I handled an M8 in the Calumet store in Chicago. I almost got the credit card out stright away and bought it, but I did look at the practicalities of the thing before I did. Specifically, I got them to put the WA tri-Elmar on it together with the accessory finder. Suddenly I found that the camera had increased in size a lot. I was setting the focal length on the lens, remembering that I needed to apply a focal length multiplier of 1.3x and set the parallax correction on the finder and then focus with the finder on the camera....ridiculous. Then I compared shots taken on the premises with the camera compared with a 5D and it would be fair to say that the IQ did not seem a whole lot better. Yes, I can see that the lenses are better, but then so they should be. So I put this beautiful jewel like thing down and put my credit card away and remembered that money can only buy you a small amount of extra photographic goodness. Perhaps Henrik needs to remember the same?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 06:54:20 AM by drew » Logged

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henrikfoto
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« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2009, 10:18:16 AM »
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Quote from: drew
Just passing and was somewhat bemused to find this thread in the MFDB section and then baffled to see it was five pages long, but then realised it had turned into one of those strange, anally retentive discussions on the merits of Leicas and some sort of sense happened.
In relation to what Henrik wants, this is quite simple. If he has the money for an M8 and he is a good photographer, he will take good pictures with it. The same is also true for the other cameras mentioned, but much less money will be involved.
However, there are some strange things:
1/ Why the preoccupation with jpeg quality? Is this a sort of oxymoron thing? Cards and storage are dirt cheap. Why would someone wanting an M8 not be prepared to process raw files? Perhaps Henrik should tell us about his level of experience and why this is as important as the esoteric discussion of certain Leica lenses and performance at certain apertures?
2/ Where does this comparison of cameras with cars come from? Toyota vs Maserati? Or is this just more Leica snobbishness? Getting from A to B is not the same as looking at great photographs (note, it is the photographer who takes the pictures).
At the end of 2007, I handled an M8 in the Calumet store in Chicago. I almost got the credit card out stright away and bought it, but I did look at the practicalities of the thing before I did. Specifically, I got them to put the WA tri-Elmar on it together with the accessory finder. Suddenly I found that the camera had increased in size a lot. I was setting the focal length on the lens, remembering that I needed to apply a focal length multiplier of 1.3x and set the parallax correction on the finder and then focus with the finder on the camera....ridiculous. Then I compared shots taken on the premises with the camera compared with a 5D and it would be fair to say that the IQ did not seem a whole lot better. Yes, I can see that the lenses are better, but then so they should be. So I put this beautiful jewel like thing down and put my credit card away and remembered that money can only buy you a small amount of extra photographic goodness. Perhaps Henrik needs to remember the same?


First: I never shoot jpeg. I am not interested in the jpeg quality. I just disapproved with many tests of the M8 that were done only in jpeg. I am en experienced shooter, but not a pro.
I like best to work with Hasselblad V cameras, but also have the H.

I like the idea of the M8, and have now tested it. I did not like how the colors many times were calculated wrong, but the files were many times beautiful. I have tried the Elmarit-M 24mm asph. That lens did not impressed me at all. I feel itīs lacking a lot of sharpness compared to the biogons and the modern digital lenses from Schneider and Rhodenstock. The Summarit M 50mm
(a rather cheap lens compared to the other Leicas), was the other lens I tried. That lens was a positive experience. I think it was quite sharp and had a nice look to it.

But all together the files wasnīt too good, and really the M8 gives nothing that a Canon 1ds mk3 canīt with the right lenses. The Noct-Nikkor lenses with an adapter to canon really gives the
same or better effects than the Noctilux 50. . . . . .but still itīs something about the M8.. just hoping for a M9 with a new sensor before I buy I think..

Henrik
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georgl
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« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2009, 11:22:41 AM »
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We're all waiting for a M9 which doesn't throw away 60% of the image circle of our precious lenses.
Until that happens, I'll invest into the lenses and enjoy both, MP and M8.

"I like the idea of the M8, and have now tested it. I did not like how the colors many times were calculated wrong, but the files were many times beautiful. I have tried the Elmarit-M 24mm asph. That lens did not impressed me at all. I feel itīs lacking a lot of sharpness compared to the biogons and the modern digital lenses from Schneider and Rhodenstock. The Summarit M 50mm"

The Summarit is a nice lens, but the Summilux Asph blows it away and sets the standard for 50mm-lenses. The 24mm-Asph is outperforming the sensor of the M8 with ease - something gone terribly wrong with your shots!?
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James R Russell
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« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2009, 11:46:11 AM »
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Quote from: henrikfoto
I did not like how the colors many times were calculated wrong, but the files were many times beautiful. I have tried the Elmarit-M 24mm asph. That lens did not impressed me at all.


You asked, you got a reply so you tested for yourself.  That's all you have to do to make a decision.

Remember though, this camera makes no sense in the world of electronic boxes that auto everything.  It makes a ton a sense if you want a thrill.

This is a compare the pixels forum, usually with an agenda to sell someone up the ladder and the people that use the M-8 aren't trying to sell or justify anything, in fact they usually start each post with how little sense the Leica makes . . . until you use it.

Would I like more from this camera. . . damn straight.  I'd like it to be full frame and have higher iso and maybe some kind of way to actually tether it, but it is what it is and that's the real beauty of it.

It's a camera you buy for yourself, without thinking about client demands or what if they want to crop 1/3 of the frame to make a vertical.  It's just a mechanical box that has an electronic sensor instead of film.

This isn't a second guess, buyer remorse camera.  You buy it and use it.

JRR
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geesbert
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« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2009, 03:35:02 PM »
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In the last 10 years i must have bought literally a few dozens of cameras, nearly every digital SLR Canon made, too many point and shoots, a few analogue and one digital Medium format systems. only four stand out:

in 1999 i bought a leica M6. the only camera i am married to
in 2003 the original 1Ds, a revelation
in 2006 a ricoh GRD, Still the only compact i am able to photograph with
in 2009 the leica M8, and i am happy as a bunny with it.....
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TMARK
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« Reply #86 on: April 20, 2009, 08:16:05 PM »
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Quote from: geesbert
In the last 10 years i must have bought literally a few dozens of cameras, nearly every digital SLR Canon made, too many point and shoots, a few analogue and one digital Medium format systems. only four stand out:

in 1999 i bought a leica M6. the only camera i am married to
in 2003 the original 1Ds, a revelation
in 2006 a ricoh GRD, Still the only compact i am able to photograph with
in 2009 the leica M8, and i am happy as a bunny with it.....

Ditto, except for the Ricoh.  Never used one.  I'd also add the Red One in 2008.  Changed my life, literally.
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pss
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« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2009, 11:13:00 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
You asked, you got a reply so you tested for yourself.  That's all you have to do to make a decision.

Remember though, this camera makes no sense in the world of electronic boxes that auto everything.  It makes a ton a sense if you want a thrill.

This is a compare the pixels forum, usually with an agenda to sell someone up the ladder and the people that use the M-8 aren't trying to sell or justify anything, in fact they usually start each post with how little sense the Leica makes . . . until you use it.

Would I like more from this camera. . . damn straight.  I'd like it to be full frame and have higher iso and maybe some kind of way to actually tether it, but it is what it is and that's the real beauty of it.

It's a camera you buy for yourself, without thinking about client demands or what if they want to crop 1/3 of the frame to make a vertical.  It's just a mechanical box that has an electronic sensor instead of film.

This isn't a second guess, buyer remorse camera.  You buy it and use it.

JRR


actually it tethers beautifully with aperture!...the DNG is also something i really like about it....
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Jeffreytotaro
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« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2009, 08:39:37 AM »
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I have not read this entire thread but I'd like to add my opinion.

Rangefinder photography is a different animal from SLR (D or otherwise) photography.  Comparing a 5D to an M8 or Epson is not fair.  If you want to shoot fast sports get the right tool for the job.  An SLR is more versatile than an RF in many ways.  Longer lenses, faster handling with wide lenses, also bigger and louder.

The question is, do you want to shoot with a RF camera?  If yes then pick one.  I have an M8.2 and love it, but I have many other cameras for different purposes and do not expect the M8 to be there as my one and only camera.  It is however my constant companion on vacations since that what I got it for.  I like the mostly-distortion-free lenses that can be designed for a RF camera.  No mirror means better lenses right off the bat.  That's important to me since I shoot mostly architecture.
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snickgrr
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« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2009, 11:26:48 AM »
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Leica USA is offering a "take it out for a test spin" with the M8.2.   Body, two lenses for the weekend for free to play around with.  I have never ever been remotely interested in the Leica but this thread got my juices going (all because of TMark).  Man, I'm digging this thing.  It's so simple, so less crap between you and what you're shooting.  It's liberating really, freedom. Almost like skinny dipping, this is the way it should feel.  This is not what I do for a living.  I'm studio still life with a ton of strobe and a slow calculated complicated workday.

I bought a G9 last year for a trip to Italy.  There was no way in hell I was going to drag around a SLR.  Hated the G9, the photos were ok but the camera sucked the energy out of you using it.
I'm going on another trip this Christmas and may have to tell my youngest that next years tuition down in Santa Barbara will need to be paid for by herself since I'm using it to buy a new camera.

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TMARK
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« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2009, 04:14:49 PM »
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Quote from: snickgrr
Leica USA is offering a "take it out for a test spin" with the M8.2.   Body, two lenses for the weekend for free to play around with.  I have never ever been remotely interested in the Leica but this thread got my juices going (all because of TMark).  Man, I'm digging this thing.  It's so simple, so less crap between you and what you're shooting.  It's liberating really, freedom. Almost like skinny dipping, this is the way it should feel.  This is not what I do for a living.  I'm studio still life with a ton of strobe and a slow calculated complicated workday.

I bought a G9 last year for a trip to Italy.  There was no way in hell I was going to drag around a SLR.  Hated the G9, the photos were ok but the camera sucked the energy out of you using it.
I'm going on another trip this Christmas and may have to tell my youngest that next years tuition down in Santa Barbara will need to be paid for by herself since I'm using it to buy a new camera.

Awesome!  Maybe Leica will give me a bunch of IR filters for helping them make a sale!

Enjoy!
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cicerone
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« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2009, 10:23:35 AM »
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Quote from: henrikfoto
I am looking to buy a small camera that is light and makes the best possible image-quality for the days I donīt feel like carrying my Hasselblad.

Is anybody using the Leica M8, Epson or the compact Sigma? How good are the files compared to those from the larger cameras?

Any experiences are very welcome.

I know this is not the correct forum, but I am sure some people here use this cameras??

Henrik

Henrik-if you decide on a Leica M8 -I have a black body version in mint unused condition condition,and in Estonia.cicerone30@hotmail.com
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Snook
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« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2009, 09:26:34 AM »
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Seems to be a lot of M8 for sale on ebay.. Does this mean a new Leica is coming out soon that we do not know about..
Besides the minor updated M8.2?
Snook
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Dick Roadnight
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« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2009, 09:38:58 AM »
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Quote from: Snook
Yeh But the D-lux 4 does <have a flash hot shoe> and supposedly BLOWS the D-lux 3 away.. Just have not wanted to spend $$$$ to upgrade yet!!
Snook
Is anyone contemplating the D-Lux 4?... even if only for web/personal use?
Do they do a zoom to make the M8 a handy 1 piece camera like the D-Lux 4?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 10:09:28 AM by Dick Roadnight » Logged

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John Camp
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« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2009, 10:15:57 AM »
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I own the M8 and also an Epson (which I haven't used much since I got the M8) and also a D3/D300 and a G1. The smaller cameras are part of my continuing search to find a really good-quality camera that I like, and that I can travel with.

The M8 makes terrific images, but the operation is completely different than a DSLR and I don't know why anybody who doesn't have an specific attachment to rangefinder cameras would want one, except for peculiar aesthetic reasons -- the "look" that James Russell speaks of. It really is a bit different. The camera also forces you to shoot differently, which also changes the look of your photos...and the lenses are a lot different than Nikon/Canons...no auto-focus, which teaches you to be very careful, and slows you down, which again changes the way your photos look, or allows you to speed up, with zone focusing, which again changes the look...A relatively complete Leica outfit may cost more than $20,000, and that's without a backup body. (A new body, a WATE, a 24-35-50 (maybe two 50s) 75-90 and perhaps 135.)

However, if the OP is a professional or an artist, looking for a smaller pro-level camera that's easy to carry, I'd suggest looking at the Pentax K7 which will be released in a couple of weeks. Very small -- not much larger package than the Leica, and lighter, I think -- with a series of very small good prime lenses to go with it, and a couple of decent (not great) zooms. A fairly complete outfit could be had for $2,500-$3,000 or so, or about 1/8 the cost of a Leica outfit. The photos will much resemble the Canon/Nikon/Sony stuff.

Or, if the OP is thinking about a walk-around shooter and wants to explore the M8, a good used body can be had for ~$3,000, and a couple thousand more for a fast 35, and if the experience isn't right, most of that could be recovered in a re-sale.

JC
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Snook
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« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2009, 10:55:13 AM »
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Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Is anyone contemplating the D-Lux 4?... even if only for web/personal use?
Do they do a zoom to make the M8 a handy 1 piece camera like the D-Lux 4?

I have been thinking about it..
The Only thing is I HATE the battery usage of my D-lux3 and am afraid the D-lux 4 has the same problem!!! No one wants to verify this for me...

I just happen to do a search on ebay and noticed a lot of M8's for sale.

I like the quality of my D-lux 3 specially in RAW but hate the freakin battery usage. With flash the battery last for about 50 shots.. I have almost thrown it against the wall a couple times already!!

Snook
supposedly the D-lux 4 is much better but how much better I have no idea!
if you get one let us know...:+}
Snook
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Anders_HK
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« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2009, 10:16:04 PM »
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Quote from: John Camp
The M8 makes terrific images, but the operation is completely different than a DSLR and I don't know why anybody who doesn't have an specific attachment to rangefinder cameras would want one, except for peculiar aesthetic reasons

I enjoy my  four week old M8. My focus is not rangefinders but photography. It is very simple to use if one understands photography. The M8 lack the multitude of buttons, functions and auto of a dslr.    Actually, it reminds me of the old Canon Av-1 (slr) I had during twenty years, same simple. For small camera I have over 8 yeaars been through a small Canon 3mp, Casio, G9, DP1. The M8 makes near perfect small camera and is one that I can shoot with instead of taking only snaps. Image quality is high. It makes focus on photography and not camera. The 28mm is a great match.

IR and B&W is cool  

Anders
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 10:18:06 PM by Anders_HK » Logged
dseelig
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« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AM »
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There is an intimacy of shooting people with a leica you just cannot do with a dslr. For people that say get a pentax or cheap canon well the look of the world at 1/30 at f1.4 is much different then 3200 and f2.8 with a bouncing mirror. I want a m9 full frame with low 3200 iso but 640 at 1.4 and 1/30 of a second is a look you cannot get with any canon and yes I own 4 canon bodies but they are another animal for a different kind of work. Used leica lenses are much cheaper these days I found a mint like 50 lux for 1900 my 35 lux for 2200 and 75 for 1900. I would not get a voigtlander but the 21 25 and 50 zeiss lenses are nice. I have an m8 with shutter and framelines upgraded. If you have some money get an m8 if funds are limited find a used one. If you want to shoot landscapes get something else if people buy the m8 . David
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PeterA
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« Reply #98 on: July 01, 2009, 01:43:23 AM »
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I was hooked as soon as I saw the negs from my first try-out of an old M3 and a battered 50 cron. My Leica kit has grown from then..there is no other glass made by anyone that comes close to leica quality - @ wide open. if you want to shoot at smaller apertures - well use anything you like..

I take a Leica with me every day and everwhere - it is a companion and a friend and records my personal diary.

If you want to know wether the Leica is for you or not there is a very simple test. Just pick one up and hold it in your hand - get a friend to watch you as you do this for the first time. If you dont immediately get a smile on your face ..just the feel of the thing..well then it probably isnt for you ..

The m8 as others have said - and by the way i think Jmaes has said it quite eloquently - is flawed compared to practically everythign else out there - unlike other cmeras though I dont care - because its very flaws are part of its charm. I didnt know ther ewas a Jpeg mode shoot raw and use C1 to process - and then get yourself an M6/m3/m7/MP  film body soup up your own B&W and watch your eyes bug out when you see teh negs..

Life without a Leica around close somewhere - unimagineable. In a aworld where pixel peeping and all that stuff seems to have taken over the vernacular of photography- Leica continues to be clean air and water and a pretty girl sashaying down the street. I feel sorry for peopel who just dont get what Leica is...and I dont mean that in a nasty way - it is liek people who are tone deaf or colour blind..or peopel who dont liek animals..or dont fancy a drink..

oops I think I have waxed lyrical for too long.

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Rob C
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« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2009, 04:23:54 AM »
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[quote  and then get yourself an M6/m3/m7/MP  film body soup up your own B&W and watch your eyes bug out when you see teh negs..


oops I think I have waxed lyrical for too long.
[/quote]



I donīt think thatīs very good advice, so perhaps you have waxed too long!

I already have a perfect F3 - one of the very last available - and it sits unused.

Fortunately, the manual lenses, also bought at the time the camera was bought in an effort to replace my 35mm gear which was all lost when I made the mistake of getting completely into 6x7, work with my digital Nikon.

The freezer is still stacked with both b/w and colour tranny material, the latter having crept up and up in processing price as the labs to process it vanish from the face of the Earth.

I had often thought about buying an M Leica, but every time I did, it failed at the critical question of in which part of my daily work would it replace the Nikons? I can only think of other photographer friends who have had to sell off their Ms for much the same reasons and for the simple fact that as money still hasnīt learned to grow on trees, a trade-in of little-used equipment in pusuit of much-needed digital top-line cameras makes financial - as opposed to sentimental - sense.

Despite owing my entire livelihood to film, I would not go that route today. For a wealthy enthusiast - who knows? I have worn a Rolex Submariner of stainless steel since around '72; others spend zillions to buy a Rolex in gold, with diamond surrounds. In my opinion I wear a watch, the others just look like bookies. So roll your penny where your fancy takes you.

Rob C
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