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Author Topic: How to compensate for sRBG on wide gamut LCDs in Windows?  (Read 11094 times)
Dan Dascalescu
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« on: April 14, 2009, 06:00:46 PM »
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Hi,

This is my first post here, and I'm quite new to wide gamut LCDs, so please pardon my ignorance.

After extensive comparisons, I recently bought an HP LP2475W monitor, and was quite excited by its awesome color support and excellent ergonomics, all for under USD 600. I want to use this monitor 90% for software development, office apps, web surfing (only occasional photography or video ad no gaming), and I hoped the HP would be a good all-around monitor.

However, after I connected it via DVI to my Compaq nc6400 laptop running Windows XP, I was literally struck by the intensity of the RED color. I tried to play with the color gain and black level from the OSD and the video card, but still, either the red was too intense, or the whole color palette way off, unnatural.

Then I started reading around on wide gamut monitors and found a good tutorial explaining why colors are oversaturated: 255,255,255 looks fine in sRGB but is much more intense on a wide-gamut monitor color space.

Then I found out about color-managed applications: Photoshop, MediaPlayer, Firefox. I did set up Firefox to do color management but if I understand correctly, this only makes a difference for images, and then only for those tagged with some color space profile. In other words, it won't make the RED text any more pleasing to the eye.

Is there some software that can globally, Windows-wide, correct the sRGB colors if they are going to be output on a wide-gamut screen? I just want red spreadsheet cells to not look so damn RED.

Thanks,
Dan
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Nick Rains
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 07:14:55 PM »
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Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
Then I found out about color-managed applications: Photoshop, MediaPlayer, Firefox. I did set up Firefox to do color management but if I understand correctly, this only makes a difference for images, and then only for those tagged with some color space profile. In other words, it won't make the RED text any more pleasing to the eye.

Is there some software that can globally, Windows-wide, correct the sRGB colors if they are going to be output on a wide-gamut screen? I just want red spreadsheet cells to not look so damn RED.

Thanks,
Dan
I think you have answered your own question. Software apps are either ICC aware or not. If they are not and the app sends a 255 Red 'signal' then how red it looks depends on the hardware - in this case the monitor.

Spreadsheet apps are not colour managed so you just have to set a different red for your cells if you want to tone down the glare.
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Nick Rains
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Paul Sumi
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 07:27:02 PM »
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Dan, are you calibrating/profiling your monitor using a hardware colorimeter and calibration software?  I'm guessing "no" since photography is a low priority.  This may or may not help with your red issue.

Also -- but this defeats the whole purpose of getting a wide gamut LCD -- some of these monitors have a special "sRGB mode."  Your H-P may also be able to do this - check your documentation.  

Paul
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 07:33:35 PM by PaulS » Logged

Dan Dascalescu
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 07:56:57 PM »
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Quote from: Nick Rains
Software apps are either ICC aware or not.
Looks so. But if I understand the flow of color data correctly, it's application -> video driver -> video card -> DVI cable -> monitor. So in theory, some video-driver-type software could exist that does the sRGB adaptation behind the scenes. This is what I'm looking for, but web searches haven't helped.

[!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=PaulS)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE (PaulS)[div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Dan, are you calibrating/profiling your monitor using a hardware colorimeter and calibration software?[/quote]
No, but if I understand correctly, what a hardware colorimeter would output would be a set of values for the RGB gain and black levels, so 6 byte values. Assuming I have these numbers, I can plug them directly in the video card application that lets me control these values. Not sure here, is this correct?

Having assumed this was the case, I played with those video card application sliders for a lot of hours, but didn't get anything satisfactory (red was too RED, or all colors looked unnatural).
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 08:02:16 PM by Dan Dascalescu » Logged
Paul Sumi
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 02:07:29 PM »
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Poking around on the Internet, it looks like your monitor does have a "sRGB mode."  Try it to see if this solves your problem.

Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
Looks so. But if I understand the flow of color data correctly, it's application -> video driver -> video card -> DVI cable -> monitor. So in theory, some video-driver-type software could exist that does the sRGB adaptation behind the scenes. This is what I'm looking for, but web searches haven't helped.
Win XP sucks at system color management.  AFAIK, there is no utility which does what you describe.  I don't know if Vista or Windows 7 fixes this.

Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
No, but if I understand correctly, what a hardware colorimeter would output would be a set of values for the RGB gain and black levels, so 6 byte values. Assuming I have these numbers, I can plug them directly in the video card application that lets me control these values. Not sure here, is this correct?
Hardware/software solutions calibrate and profile your monitor, and automatically install and load the created monitor profile which is then used by your video card.  So no "numbers" to manually plug in.  However, only color-managed apps can take advantage of the calibration.

Paul
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 02:08:32 PM by PaulS » Logged

jerryrock
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 02:28:17 PM »
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PaulS is correct, the only option is to physically switch your wide gamut monitor to sRGB mode for those applications that require it.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 03:02:46 PM »
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Have a look here at a similar issue viewing Flash websites with a wide gamut monitor.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=33820

And I thought life in color would be easier with a wide gamut monitor!
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Dan Dascalescu
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2009, 04:16:38 AM »
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Quote from: PaulS
Poking around on the Internet, it looks like your monitor does have a "sRGB mode."  Try it to see if this solves your problem.

Hi Paul,

I've looked left and right during the past few days, but haven't found anything about how to switch the monitor into sRGB mode. The sRGB color preset from the OSD is useless. Would you have to have more information about this?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2009, 11:31:42 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
The sRGB color preset from the OSD is useless. Would you have to have more information about this?

Yes it is useless. You can't alter the primaries of your display. The setting mimics without the use of color management (making it useless), sRGB.
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Andrew Rodney
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jerryrock
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 11:57:07 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
I want to use this monitor 90% for software development, office apps, web surfing (only occasional photography or video ad no gaming), and I hoped the HP would be a good all-around monitor.

I just want red spreadsheet cells to not look so damn RED.

Thanks,
Dan

For the purpose the OP is stating, switching to RGB mode would be useful. For the 10% of the time he needs a color managed wide gamut he can switch back to the profiled gamut.

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Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2009, 10:53:43 PM »
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The obvious question is:

Why buy a wide-gamut monitor, if highly saturated colors are deemed undesirable? Seems rather like buying a larger-than-normal hammer and then bitching that it hurts more than normal when you whack your thumb with it.
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tived
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2009, 01:58:25 AM »
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Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
The obvious question is:

Why buy a wide-gamut monitor, if highly saturated colors are deemed undesirable? Seems rather like buying a larger-than-normal hammer and then bitching that it hurts more than normal when you whack your thumb with it.


Thanks Jonathan, I just needed that :-) that is so funny

thanks

Henrik
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Melvin
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 01:52:28 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
For the purpose the OP is stating, switching to RGB mode would be useful. For the 10% of the time he needs a color managed wide gamut he can switch back to the profiled gamut.

I too have the HP wide gamut lcd, which has caused alot of trouble for me, but i have it under control. What I did was switch the LCD to sRGB mode, then install the sRGB color profile from HP for that monitor and you are good to go.
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Christopher
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 03:56:30 AM »
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Let me see if I understand the problem correct. All colors are fine in aplications which have CM. However if you than look at a sRGB JPG which looked fine in for example PS now looks very over Sat. (Esp. RED) in the windows viewer or internet explorer than that is just normal. You can't change it.

edit: Well you can use the sRGB mode in your display when working with none CM aps. That should resolve all issues.  Like I do with my CG220.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 03:57:52 AM by Christopher » Logged

Jeremy Payne
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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 08:09:37 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
After extensive comparisons, I recently bought an HP LP2475W monitor, and was quite excited by its awesome color support and excellent ergonomics, all for under USD 600. I want to use this monitor 90% for software development, office apps, web surfing (only occasional photography or video ad no gaming), and I hoped the HP would be a good all-around monitor.

I think that's your mistake ... you don't want or need a wide gamut monitor ... you want a normal gamut monitor ...
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sandymc
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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 10:32:34 AM »
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Quote from: Dan Dascalescu
Looks so. But if I understand the flow of color data correctly, it's application -> video driver -> video card -> DVI cable -> monitor. So in theory, some video-driver-type software could exist that does the sRGB adaptation behind the scenes. This is what I'm looking for, but web searches haven't helped.


No, but if I understand correctly, what a hardware colorimeter would output would be a set of values for the RGB gain and black levels, so 6 byte values. Assuming I have these numbers, I can plug them directly in the video card application that lets me control these values. Not sure here, is this correct?

Having assumed this was the case, I played with those video card application sliders for a lot of hours, but didn't get anything satisfactory (red was too RED, or all colors looked unnatural).

Not sure what video hardware you have, but your best bet is to set up a number of profiles in the driver itself. On an NVidia card, assuming you have the latest drivers, you can adjust color at the NVidia ControlPanel->Display->Adjust Desktop Color Settings. You can then save those an "sRGB" profile set to whatever looks good to you, as well as a "wide gamut" profile by using the Profiles->Save menu option. Then you switch between profiles depending on whether the application you're using is color managed or not. Pretty sure ATI drivers have the same sorts of settings, but haven't got a PC with ATI graphics to hand.

Sandy
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