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Author Topic: HP Z3200 to good a deal to pass up?  (Read 16057 times)
Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2009, 09:53:48 AM »
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Quote from: kaelaria
So you are saying the Z3200 star wheel adjustment is electric?  That's interesting I have never seen that mentioned before.

All I can really report is that the HP Z3200 Printer Utility presets give me the option to raise or lower the starwheels.
I didn't realise that this was new to the Z3200 and I don't know how this actually works in the printer.
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK
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« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2009, 10:02:28 AM »
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Well, that's what you're assuming.  It may simply be a setting for how you have the wheels set - manually.  But like I said, if it's indeed electric, it's the first I've heard of it and is pretty cool.
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John Caldwell
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« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2009, 10:09:03 AM »
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Mac Z3200 users will, as a rule, not find paper presets in the OEM driver's media selections when printing from Adobe app's. Paper presets will be available when printing from OS apps like Preview, text edit and such. I print from Lightroom, select "Any" as the media type, as this process as I understand it sacrifices nothing so long as the media type is correctly chosen at the hardware front panel.

Thick papers like Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 have been prone to handling problems on my 3200, in that they fail to feed at the start of a print. A work around has involved jogging the paper forward 1/4" with manual paper advance. Head strikes have not been a feature on a any paper I've used.

My papers of preference on the Z3200:

1) Hahnemuhle FA Baryta 325, GE on
2) HP Professional satin GE on; very nice print but 2nd rate paper in the hand, in my view. Also prone to dents in larger sizes.
3) Canon BFK Rives GE off, for low-contrast work
4) Hahnemuhle William Turner GE off, for dreamy watercolor textured look
5) Hahnemuhle German Etching GE off, less texture and wider gamut than William Turner
6) Crane Museo Max GE off, for high gamut detailed matte appearance
7) Harman FB Gloss Al GE on, still working out details with this paper which has, thus far, given prints that are too dark in shadow and quarter tone range, but which look very good otherwise and which handle much better than HP Pro Satin, in my experience.

HP USA tech support has, in my experience, been highly flat-footed. They have struck me as:

1) Being completely out of touch with the world of fine art printing
2) Being out of touch with and disinterested in the Mac platform
3) Requiring a very Byzantine process of contacting them for followup discussion on a case already opened.

Others describe different experience with HP tech support. I speak of the Enhanced Tech Support group to which one has access after buying the extended warranty ($1470 in my case).

John Caldwell
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 10:11:00 AM by John Caldwell » Logged
Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2009, 11:18:03 AM »
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Quote from: John Caldwell
Thick papers like Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 have been prone to handling problems on my 3200, in that they fail to feed at the start of a print. A work around has involved jogging the paper forward 1/4" with manual paper advance. Head strikes have not been a feature on a any paper I've used.

How do the HFA Baryta blacks compare with the HP Pro Satin?
And have you noticed any starwheel marks on the HFA Baryta?
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK
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« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2009, 11:57:01 AM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
How do the HFA Baryta blacks compare with the HP Pro Satin?
And have you noticed any starwheel marks on the HFA Baryta?

Similar blacks to HP Pro Satin from the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta. For my tastes, though, the 325 feels less like a traditional RC paper so I prefer it on the whole. I have yet to see a starwheel mark on any print on any paper from my Z3200.

John-
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2009, 12:20:48 PM »
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Quote from: John Caldwell
Similar blacks to HP Pro Satin from the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta. For my tastes, though, the 325 feels less like a traditional RC paper so I prefer it on the whole. I have yet to see a starwheel mark on any print on any paper from my Z3200.

John-

Ok, thanks for that. I think I will need to get hold of some HFA Baryta.
Strange as however many different papers I try, I always seem to end up going back to Hahnemuehle.
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2009, 12:34:46 PM »
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Quote from: kaelaria
Well, that's what you're assuming.  It may simply be a setting for how you have the wheels set - manually.  But like I said, if it's indeed electric, it's the first I've heard of it and is pretty cool.

On the Wiki Z3100 pages you will find RAR files of the Z3100 service manual. If you do a search "starwheel" in that manual it may bring you to other conclusions. And that was just the Z3100.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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kaelaria
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« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2009, 01:38:38 PM »
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Yes I have had that manual for over  ayear, in fact before the new star wheel assembly was created and I was one of the first to test it from HP.

The manual talks about the star wheel lifter - which has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  That is for lifting the assembly up out of the way for feeding sheets and alignment.  It has two positions, Up/Down (Open/Closed).  In the down (Closed) positions there are two manual positions to select from - that is what we are discussing.  The only other thing I could see is if the profile for whatever reason is allowing you to keep the whole assembly in the open position- but I have no idea why you would want that.

My conclusions are the same.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 01:58:10 PM by kaelaria » Logged

Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2009, 02:31:47 PM »
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Quote from: kaelaria
Yes I have had that manual for over  ayear, in fact before the new star wheel assembly was created and I was one of the first to test it from HP.

The manual talks about the star wheel lifter - which has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  That is for lifting the assembly up out of the way for feeding sheets and alignment.  It has two positions, Up/Down (Open/Closed).  In the down (Closed) positions there are two manual positions to select from - that is what we are discussing.  The only other thing I could see is if the profile for whatever reason is allowing you to keep the whole assembly in the open position- but I have no idea why you would want that.

My conclusions are the same.


With that electric mechanism already available on the Z3100, the manual height adjusters removed again on the Z3200 and the height adjusting choices not greyed out in the Z3200 media preset menu that assumption of a change to automatic height adjustment is not so strange. The choices are up and down only in that menu so it is probably just that what is done, for papers that can cope with the star wheels the starwheel bar stays down during printing and lifts on sheet and roll loading. For papers that can not cope the bar is raised all the time. As there are no longer the black wedges to manually shift in and out it would have no sense to just add the prescription to the media preset. That would make sense on the Z3100 with the starwheel upgrade but on that one the choices are greyed out. If they had implanted the choices on the Z3100, there should have been a message to the user to raise the bar every time he selected the media preset. HP decided to let the Z3200 handle it with the already available mechanism. There's even a small chance that the raising of the bar has now more steps but only two steps made available in the media preset creation.

My conclusion is that the height adjustment has been improved on the Z3200.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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kaelaria
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« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2009, 02:42:32 PM »
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Again, merely an assumption.  It may be correct, but since no one has posted anything from HP or pictures of the supposed new mechanism - you can't be sure.

Another alternative is the 3200 mechanism is identical to the first generation 3100, and they simply did not include any manual adjustment on the assembly.  Maybe it didn't work as designed - I know it didn't alleviate all the marks on my papers.  It's better in some cases, but they are certainly still there in others.

Is your printer a 3100 or 3200?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2009, 03:00:38 PM »
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Quote from: kaelaria
Again, merely an assumption.  It may be correct, but since no one has posted anything from HP or pictures of the supposed new mechanism - you can't be sure.

Another alternative is the 3200 mechanism is identical to the first generation 3100, and they simply did not include any manual adjustment on the assembly.  Maybe it didn't work as designed - I know it didn't alleviate all the marks on my papers.  It's better in some cases, but they are certainly still there in others.

Is your printer a 3100 or 3200?

Both are here, that makes it easier to compare and it doesn't look like HP did forget the parts, it changed the way to do it.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html


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kaelaria
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« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2009, 03:06:20 PM »
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Can you take pictures of both mechanisms so we can see the differences?  Raise and lower the assembly to see what exactly it's doing?

I didn't say they forgot anything.  You said the 3200 does not have the manual adjustment - so they were designed out.  The question is, did they design in a replacement electric mechanism for them, or simply revert to the first design?
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Ryan Grayley
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« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2009, 03:28:58 PM »
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Quote from: John Caldwell
Similar blacks to HP Pro Satin from the Hahnemuhle FA Baryta. For my tastes, though, the 325 feels less like a traditional RC paper so I prefer it on the whole. I have yet to see a starwheel mark on any print on any paper from my Z3200.

John-

I had a rummage in my cupboard found a couple of blank A4 sheets of HFA Baryta.
I used the first sheet to calibrate and the second sheet for my test image.
Using a loupe I found faint starwheel traces.
I used the Hahnemuehle supplied preset and used it in its default state which was with the starwheels up and the paper thickness set to normal. I wonder if setting the paper thickness to thick would fix the starwheel markings. The blacks are good although the default profile is not revealing as much shadow detail as the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. GD in the unprinted areas is still visible and is about the same as the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk.

I am now wondering how the Hahnemuehle Photorag Baryta performs but I don't think I have any samples.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 03:30:30 PM by Ionaca » Logged

Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK
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« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2009, 08:26:11 PM »
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I received my Z3200 2 weeks ago, and so far it is a wonderful printer. One thing I love is the gloss enhancer, as well as the calibration / ink limiting step when creating a new paper preset for a 3rd party paper. Very nice system, and the out of the box profiles must be better than the 3100 because they aren't too bad. My 1728 patch iO scanning table is making better profiles, but it is also a much more expensive solution.
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Andy Biggs
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kuau
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« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2009, 11:00:45 PM »
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Quote from: John Caldwell
Mac Z3200 users will, as a rule, not find paper presets in the OEM driver's media selections when printing from Adobe app's. Paper presets will be available when printing from OS apps like Preview, text edit and such. I print from Lightroom, select "Any" as the media type, as this process as I understand it sacrifices nothing so long as the media type is correctly chosen at the hardware front panel.

Thick papers like Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta 325 have been prone to handling problems on my 3200, in that they fail to feed at the start of a print. A work around has involved jogging the paper forward 1/4" with manual paper advance. Head strikes have not been a feature on a any paper I've used.

My papers of preference on the Z3200:

1) Hahnemuhle FA Baryta 325, GE on
2) HP Professional satin GE on; very nice print but 2nd rate paper in the hand, in my view. Also prone to dents in larger sizes.
3) Canon BFK Rives GE off, for low-contrast work
4) Hahnemuhle William Turner GE off, for dreamy watercolor textured look
5) Hahnemuhle German Etching GE off, less texture and wider gamut than William Turner
6) Crane Museo Max GE off, for high gamut detailed matte appearance
7) Harman FB Gloss Al GE on, still working out details with this paper which has, thus far, given prints that are too dark in shadow and quarter tone range, but which look very good otherwise and which handle much better than HP Pro Satin, in my experience.

HP USA tech support has, in my experience, been highly flat-footed. They have struck me as:

1) Being completely out of touch with the world of fine art printing
2) Being out of touch with and disinterested in the Mac platform
3) Requiring a very Byzantine process of contacting them for followup discussion on a case already opened.

Others describe different experience with HP tech support. I speak of the Enhanced Tech Support group to which one has access after buying the extended warranty ($1470 in my case).

John Caldwell
John is Hahnemuhle FA Baryta 325 the same paper as HP's Baryta paper?
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Sinar arTec, Leaf Aptus II 7 AFI, 35, 70, 135mm Sinaron lenses,  HP Z3200 PS Printer
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« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2009, 11:47:08 PM »
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Quote from: howseth
Kuau - Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin - you should not use GE on the Z3100/Z3200. If you do - you will spoil the variable sheen effect - you get in the whiter areas on this special paper.

Howard

Howard what paper preset should I use before I profile this paper?

Steven
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« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2009, 07:10:05 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
Howard what paper preset should I use before I profile this paper?

Steven

Have you tried the Hahnemuehle presets for this paper?
If you visit the profile page you will find presets for the Z3100 and the Z3200...
http://www.hahnemuehle.com/

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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2009, 07:11:53 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
John is Hahnemuhle FA Baryta 325 the same paper as HP's Baryta paper?

I doubt it as the results look different to my eyes.
The HFA blacks are deeper.

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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2009, 07:49:01 AM »
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Quote from: kuau
John is Hahnemuhle FA Baryta 325 the same paper as HP's Baryta paper?

No, but I can't say that HFA doesn't make the HP branded Baryta for HP. The look and feel pretty different, and I prefer the HFA FA Baryta - with the caveat that I prepare myself for paper mis-feed by first using the Paper>Manual Feed> Manually Advance Paper front panel dialog to advance and verify paper traction before printing.

I never used a loupe to detect starwheel marks on my Z3200 prints, so when I say marks are not there I refer only to what my unaided eye can see.

In creating a Paper Preset for HFA Baryta 325 I used HP Baryta Paper as the starting point, if I recall correctly, and made no change in default values regulating ink limits, GE, thickness or SW position.

Thus far the only instance in which I trialed reducing ink limits was when profiling the Harman FB Gloss. My motive was to deal with output which seemed color-accurate, but which blocked the quarter tones heavily. In ink limit of -94, rather than the default 100 value, but using the same Photo Baryta Paper starting point, helped but traded one problem for another by reducing gamut and contrast above halftone ranges. I wish I had more expertise and getting the best out of the self-profiling features of my base model Z3200 for 3rd party media than I do.

John-

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kuau
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« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2009, 08:59:54 AM »
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Quote from: Ionaca
I doubt it as the results look different to my eyes.
The HFA blacks are deeper.
Thanks for the info.
I print mostly color lanscape stuff, I know this is all personal choice but what paper would you use?

Steven
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