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Author Topic: C1 4.7 and the mac  (Read 17490 times)
pss
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« on: April 20, 2009, 03:42:21 PM »
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this is funny....several attempts to shoot tethered in C1 4.7 and the 5DII (which is now supported!) and several random crashes and the usual 100 and crash scenario on the mbp 10.5.6....

turns out (after doing some in depth searches) that phase KNOWS that is actually does not work! well it does but only as well as the canon (or nikon) software because the problem is still with the mac driver/RAM problem.....

now the problem is NOT that it does not work (apple is to blame for that) but that phase KNOWS it does not work but still makes it look like it does!
that is just nuts....i mean how about a simple statement saying: we implemented tethered support but our hands are still tied until apple gets their #%^&@ together....

i still believe that phase makes the best backs (and amazingly) the best software (compared to the others) but it is just crazy that these high end companies still don't get it.....even in this market.....

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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 04:21:08 PM »
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Yeah the 10.5.6 OSX update doubled the speed of USB-based tethering but introduced an instability that manifests itself after about 100 shots.

It's no secret that support for Phase One products is intended to come primarily from your dealer so there was no need to kill yourself with indepth searches: a quick call to your dealer could have cleared this up in a few minutes.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:24:06 PM by dougpetersonci » Logged

DOUG PETERSON (dep@digitaltransitions.com), Digital Transitions
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 04:39:35 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
It's no secret that support for Phase One products is intended to come primarily from your dealer so there was no need to kill yourself with indepth searches: a quick call to your dealer could have cleared this up in a few minutes.

Doug,

How does that affect the customers who bought C1 Pro directly from the Phaseone website for usage with non Phase hardware?

The instability of C1 4.7 on Mac is not just related to thethered shooting as I mentioned elsewhere.

Cheers,
Bernard
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« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 04:53:48 PM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Yeah the 10.5.6 OSX update doubled the speed of USB-based tethering but introduced an instability that manifests itself after about 100 shots.

It's no secret that support for Phase One products is intended to come primarily from your dealer so there was no need to kill yourself with indepth searches: a quick call to your dealer could have cleared this up in a few minutes.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Hi Doug
I have been shooting the last two days, a very high pressure shoot. This has been on a new Mac Pro 2.26 Octa with 16 GB Ram. Running C1 Pro 4.7. First off this a very impressive features that came in handy like the free hand rotation & overlay. Shot with the Canon 1DSIII tetehered. On the first day we had a LOT of crashes. Tried a few things like taking the sleep mode off the camera which did help. On the second day we removed all the Canon SW. Now this made a big improvement & cut our crashes down by 60%, we still had about 15 which is still too many ( Had sleep mode on one camera with no problem so there was a conflict with DPP & P1 SW ). We had two set ups with shooting speed FAST & slow. I did notice when we were shooting slower the drop out rate was about 50% less. Reboot time is quick but we have to force quit every time. I was almost going to go back to DPP but there is drop outs on 10.5.6 too. I still have our old Power Mac G5 2.3 dual 8GB Ram with 10.4.9 which I have never had a crash with using DPP. We did use a newer MBP using 10.5.? & we had a few crashes using DPP which was the first crash for us using DPP. So after spending all this money on a new computer plus SW now Canon is not stable in the tethered mode! James is right we are the Beta testers sometimes & I feel like one now. I think for the next shoot I will use our old MAC with DPP. Shame because the P1 SW is excellent. Now on to day three of shooting.
Cheers Denis
« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 04:58:33 PM by mcfoto » Logged

Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 04:55:53 AM »
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Hi
Just finished the last day & shot on the OLD power Mac 2.3 dual with 8GB of RAM. Shot like a demon & did not have ONE crash shooting the Canon 1DSMKIII into DPP using 10.4.9. We used the new computer for editing the other two days with the CD from the agency. On another note even though I own Profoto Acutes & mono blocks the new Broncolor Scoros are OUTSTANDING, real work horses with a very short flash duration. Back to C1 4.7 Pro which I really ilke is this a Mac OS 10.5 problem?Huh BTW the way my partner just said she loves the C1 4.7 SW.
Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 05:03:40 AM »
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Quote from: dougpetersonci
Yeah the 10.5.6 OSX update doubled the speed of USB-based tethering but introduced an instability that manifests itself after about 100 shots.

It's no secret that support for Phase One products is intended to come primarily from your dealer so there was no need to kill yourself with indepth searches: a quick call to your dealer could have cleared this up in a few minutes.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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Hi Doug
Would it be a good idea to go back to 10.5.5. I don't really care about the speed as long as I have got the shot in the camera buffer. Crashes really can take the flow out of the shoot. My wife partner just compared PO to RD in processing a Canon cr2 file & the PO processed file is more neutral, she really likes this SW.
Cheers Denis
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 10:55:19 AM »
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Quote from: mcfoto
Hi Doug
Would it be a good idea to go back to 10.5.5. I don't really care about the speed as long as I have got the shot in the camera buffer. Crashes really can take the flow out of the shoot. My wife partner just compared PO to RD in processing a Canon cr2 file & the PO processed file is more neutral, she really likes this SW.
Cheers Denis

There are three things that kill the buzz and two are non acceptable.  1. crashes, 2. lost files, 3 slowdowns.

The first two are devastating , the third just damn annoying.  

If your tether with eos utility and use a cf card in the camera, if the connection breaks at least you'll have the images on a card.

Obviously Apple is playing some kind of game with the speed of their usb drivers but macs have become less stable through the last few years, with different firewire port power and just a whole list of other changes.

I actually find the way 10.56 works is more pc like that most pc's, so I just bit the bullet and bought a vista notebook for tethering the Canons.  It's rock solid and fast and easy and there is a cheap download call Mac Drive or something like that that allows a vista machine to read an apple drive so you can transfer from both systems.

I also don't dislike eos utility.   It is more full featured that most people realize and for tethering it does almost anything you would want and dpp does produce good color and a great preview.

It's hard to blame phase for the tethering of a canon camera.  In fact I'm surprised they even allow it at all because whether anyone thinks it or not, Canon is a competitor to phase.

Still, for the last year I've tried to get away from tethering as much as possible.  I just don't like the process of being hooked to a cord and every frame is coming up on the computer.  I don't think it's that fast, I do think just the process of tethering slows down a shoot.    When possible I just shoot to cards and the tech downloads using photomechnanic which is probably the best ingesting/sorting software made.

Some jobs you just have to tether, but when I don't, I found we shoot more, faster and easier working this way than working tethered being called over to the computer for every 5 frames to discuss the shot and then go back to shooting.




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Snook
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 01:01:18 PM »
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Just put one of the Apple Logo white stickers over the DELL Logo and what's the difference...
Snook
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terence_patrick
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 01:07:53 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
Still, for the last year I've tried to get away from tethering as much as possible.  I just don't like the process of being hooked to a cord and every frame is coming up on the computer.  I don't think it's that fast, I do think just the process of tethering slows down a shoot.    When possible I just shoot to cards and the tech downloads using photomechnanic which is probably the best ingesting/sorting software made.

Some jobs you just have to tether, but when I don't, I found we shoot more, faster and easier working this way than working tethered being called over to the computer for every 5 frames to discuss the shot and then go back to shooting.

Amen!
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James R Russell
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 01:29:19 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
Just put one of the Apple Logo white stickers over the DELL Logo and what's the difference...
Snook


I understand that programs like c-1 are complicated, but what I don't get is how fragile they can be.  

I can drop 3,000 files into I-view (now expression media) or in photomechanic and regalrdless of the operating system it just works are rarely crashes, if ever.

As client demands go up, our work load goes up and obviously expectations go up, we must have stable software and computers.

To be honest with you, I think tethering just came from the days that mfdb lcd's were so poor that you couldn't see the image.  When you step back and think about it, nobody use to expect to see every frame every second and honestly it just keeps you from getting on with the shot.

I'm all for showing the client/ad's. crew etc. the shoot and what is going on, but each frame every second just becomes an excercise in comment, rather than production.  People should be looking at the set, not some monitor.

Photographers should be looking through the camera.

JRR
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pss
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 02:01:43 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
I understand that programs like c-1 are complicated, but what I don't get is how fragile they can be.  

I can drop 3,000 files into I-view (now expression media) or in photomechanic and regalrdless of the operating system it just works are rarely crashes, if ever.

As client demands go up, our work load goes up and obviously expectations go up, we must have stable software and computers.

To be honest with you, I think tethering just came from the days that mfdb lcd's were so poor that you couldn't see the image.  When you step back and think about it, nobody use to expect to see every frame every second and honestly it just keeps you from getting on with the shot.

I'm all for showing the client/ad's. crew etc. the shoot and what is going on, but each frame every second just becomes an excercise in comment, rather than production.  People should be looking at the set, not some monitor.

Photographers should be looking through the camera.

JRR


i agree and actually enjoy having an excuse to not tether...but sometimes you just have to...

i also don't get why this is such a big deal all of a sudden....i really never had big problems tethering....but i guess shooting phase backs with C1 spoils you....

i also like the canon utility, i just use it via VMware running XP...works like a charm....

i really hope apple will fix the memory problem with image capture with 10.5.7 which is supposed to be out any day now...they had enough time....

the best tether solution so far has been through aperture, but unfortunately only a handful older cameras are supported....again hopefully this will be upgraded soon as well.....the direct integration of all image/camera software in the system is showing its obvious disadvantages.....but when it works.....it beats everything out there.....

and yes.....i believe there is no need to see every shot as it comes in...it kills the flow....we used to do it without it....

one of the advantages of tethering for me is also the automatic backup (shooting to card and mac)...i have enough cards and never erase them until i have to for the next shoot....so i always have a version of the files...in a small enough kit that can stay with me at all times.....
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ziocan
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 02:19:58 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
Just put one of the Apple Logo white stickers over the DELL Logo and what's the difference...
Snook
 
I was also thinking of getting a PC laptop myself, just to have next  to my macs. I did that in the past and they interface each other pretty well especially on a network.
I would pick a Sony though, at least that would save the appearances a little.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 02:20:27 PM by ziocan » Logged
E_Edwards
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 02:35:02 PM »
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To each their own. I find tethering invaluable and Live Video (Live View) is very important to me.

There's more to photography than just model shooters, and frankly, camera backs are really more suited to still life/architecture photography (for instance) than fashion.

But when I do shoot models, I find tethering helpful, particularly for initial setup,  but often too slow to keep up with the normal pace of shooting and I agree that tethering imposes restrictions. You think and act differently when you are not tethered, which can be good or bad.

Edward
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ziocan
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 02:38:16 PM »
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Quote from: James R Russell
I understand that programs like c-1 are complicated, but what I don't get is how fragile they can be.  

I can drop 3,000 files into I-view (now expression media) or in photomechanic and regalrdless of the operating system it just works are rarely crashes, if ever.

As client demands go up, our work load goes up and obviously expectations go up, we must have stable software and computers.

To be honest with you, I think tethering just came from the days that mfdb lcd's were so poor that you couldn't see the image.  When you step back and think about it, nobody use to expect to see every frame every second and honestly it just keeps you from getting on with the shot.

I'm all for showing the client/ad's. crew etc. the shoot and what is going on, but each frame every second just becomes an excercise in comment, rather than production.  People should be looking at the set, not some monitor.

Photographers should be looking through the camera.

JRR
I agree.
I'm also for showing the images to the crew, because good suggestions may came from the people around me as well and it decrease the eventuality of misunderstanding with the AD and clients, but often it can be very distracting.

Sometimes i'm just fooling around with the camera "looking for my things", testing lights or what ever came to my mind. I normally have a good relationship with models and they do not mind when I do that. When I was shooting polaroids, I had my privacy. Now if I'm tethered, the images will show up at 30" size and sometime clients and Ad's wonder what the heck i'm doing.

Not mentioning that since the advent of computers and retouching, we are allowed of making lighting more interesting for the whole picture, even if it may be less forgiving on the model at detail level and that will not be a problem, because we can easily fix the little nuance, shadow or else. But unfortunately if it pops up on the large screen, it may put off some people for a few instants, and whispers and looks may fly in the room. I do not even need to have eyes on my back, because I know already which shots will make people think the worst.. lol
That is why today is more important than ever to work with people you have affinity and common feelings, they understand we are in charge and that we know what we are doing no matter what pops up on the screen.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:07:24 PM by ziocan » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 02:44:15 PM »
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Quote from: Snook
Just put one of the Apple Logo white stickers over the DELL Logo and what's the difference...
Snook

Well, the difference is what the sticker is attached to  I do wish my Mac was more stable but I am still some ways away from wanting to add a Windows machine.
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 05:49:49 PM »
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JR is right that you can spend your life waiting for such things; however, in this case my personal advice would be to wait a week or two as 10.5.7 appears imminent.

If you buy from PhaseOne.com then you get support from PhaseOne.com with a response time of 24 hours or less which is just what happened in this case (though several back-and-fourths may take longer). If you buy from a dealer you pay the same price or less (sales tax may differ) and you get support from that dealer (you can also use PhaseOne.com if you choose). Given the level of support I strive to give our customers I know which I would suggest.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 05:50:47 PM »
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Quote from: pss
i also don't get why this is such a big deal all of a sudden....i really never had big problems tethering....but i guess shooting phase backs with C1 spoils you....

That can spoil you!

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 06:01:09 PM »
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10.5.7 is like any second . Been waiting for it to clear up some Mac issues nothing with C1 but word has it like 120 bugs fixed
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 06:50:19 PM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
10.5.7 is like any second . Been waiting for it to clear up some Mac issues nothing with C1 but word has it like 120 bugs fixed

It would be great if Apple finally got it right 18 months after the release of Leopard wouldn't it... :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
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Snook
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:56 AM »
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Quote from: Guy Mancuso
10.5.7 is like any second . Been waiting for it to clear up some Mac issues nothing with C1 but word has it like 120 bugs fixed

According to the same forum, the only fix is going to be with Bluetooth Networking..
That cannot be true, or no?


I only here all the Canon guys complaining here. I am shooting P30 tethered all the time and no problems here.
I would say your lucky that C-1 even deals with Canon files, Not to mention theirs converts better in my my mind.

IF I was phase I would tell everyone to do what James Russel did and buy a PC and shut up already if your shooting canon...:+}

Snook

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